Light power, watts vs. candles

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking at buying a new headlight for the winter once daylight
sasvings ends.

make your own 😉 (see my post under OT - I'm disgusted!, about the price of
lights in oz)
mine cost $60 for 2x20w(3+ hours run time) on the bars and a 10W(about 1
hour) on the helment

Quoted message said:

I've noticed some are rated in watts and some rated in
candles. I'm not sure if it's coincidence but it seems the battery
lights are in candles and the rechargeables are in watts. Is that the
case? Is there any way to compare the output between watts and candles?

No. Watts is the measurement of what is being put into the bulb. Candles is
the measurement of what is coming out. Neither really mean much on there
own. What you really want to know is Lumens Per Watt and even that is a
little tricky. The LPW of halogen, incandescent and LED all go up as you
over volt them, but there life time goes down. Having high LPW is good, but
then you have to be able to get it were you want it. Compact fluorescent
lamps are good for LPW but focusing them is a problem.

stu

I really like my Cateye Stadium 3 bikelight. It has 21watt Metal Halide
bulb. Has 12volt recharable bottle battery. Three hours to (fully) charge
and runs for three hours. Check details on the website, download the PDF
manual file.

This is the blurb from the website:
The completely redesigned Cat Eye Stadium 3 with Metal Halide bulb
technology gives you the equivalent of 80+ watts of halogen light. Now with
a 12v Ni-Mh water bottle battery, a top tube mounting ballast, and a
redesigned lamp body, the Stadium 3 is ready to turn night into day. The
Stadium 3 differs from any other cycling lamp on the market. Rather than a
standard filament the Stadium Light has a gas filled bulb. A six
thousand-volt charge fires the gas to produce a brilliant xenon arc light
over 3 times brighter than the equivalent halogen bulb. The 12v Ni-Mh
battery with battery life indicator will provide 3 hours of runtime and the
new "Smart Charger/ Quick Charger" will charge the battery in just 3 hours.
MSRP(USD):450.00

I bought mine for $369.95 USD from bikeman.com (last year) and at the
current exchange rates the price will be even better. (I paid $611 AUS, no
other costs).

Laurence Dodd said:

I bought mine for $369.95 USD from bikeman.com (last year) and at the
current exchange rates the price will be even better. (I paid $611 AUS, no
other costs).

No other costs!? Only $611, huh?

&roo

"Laurence Dodd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I really like my Cateye Stadium 3 bikelight. It has 21watt Metal Halide
bulb. Has 12volt recharable bottle battery. Three hours to (fully)

charge

Quoted message said:

and runs for three hours. Check details on the website, download the PDF
manual file.

This is the blurb from the website:
The completely redesigned Cat Eye Stadium 3 with Metal Halide bulb
technology gives you the equivalent of 80+ watts of halogen light. Now

with

Quoted message said:

a 12v Ni-Mh water bottle battery, a top tube mounting ballast, and a
redesigned lamp body, the Stadium 3 is ready to turn night into day. The
Stadium 3 differs from any other cycling lamp on the market. Rather than a
standard filament the Stadium Light has a gas filled bulb. A six
thousand-volt charge fires the gas to produce a brilliant xenon arc light
over 3 times brighter than the equivalent halogen bulb. The 12v Ni-Mh
battery with battery life indicator will provide 3 hours of runtime and

the

Quoted message said:

new "Smart Charger/ Quick Charger" will charge the battery in just 3

hours.

Quoted message said:

MSRP(USD):450.00

I bought mine for $369.95 USD from bikeman.com (last year) and at the
current exchange rates the price will be even better. (I paid $611 AUS,

no

Quoted message said:

other costs).

I really wish they would make up there mind just how good it is.

Quoted message said:

equivalent of 80+ watts of halogen light
over 3 times brighter than the equivalent halogen bulb

Is it more than 3 times as good or more then 4 times as good?

Still either way I am sure I will see you coming lol

now for my questions
1.do you know what a replacement bulb is worth?
2.what did you do about the charger?

DaveB said:

I'm looking at buying a new headlight for the winter once daylight
sasvings ends. I've noticed some are rated in watts and some rated in
candles. I'm not sure if it's coincidence but it seems the battery
lights are in candles and the rechargeables are in watts. Is that the
case? Is there any way to compare the output between watts and candles?

Isn't it only the LED lights that are measured in candellas(sp?)
This arises from each LED having an output measured in mCd.

Unfortunately other lights aren't measured in light output.

I'm just guessing here, but based on existing LED lights
I've seen and used, I reckon a 3-LED headlight would be
roughly equivelant to a 2watt (3?) halogen bike light.

I think LED headlights are very good, indeed I have a
headtorch that is great for walking and camping etc - it's
just not bright enough for the nighttime in traffic riding.

It's possible to buy 10,000mCd single LEDs,
and I think a light made with a [censored] of these (see the one
in the latest Velovision Magazine) would be just as good
as halogen. But at that point, you're getting more expensive
than halogen with the same power consumption. It's probably
more reliable though (having N light sources rather than 1).

I reckon in another few years LEDs will be brighter still
(and more efficient), but for the moment a nice halogen
light (5w +++) is the go.

I guess I kind-of digressed from your question, but that's
life on usenet.

-kt

Quoted message said:

The bulb unit is not user-replaceable. If it is burned out or comes to
the end of its useful life, please return it to us, along with the ballast.
We will replace it for pay.

I found part of the answer
Cant find out how long they think it will last.
the warranty excludes the bulb 🙁
have you run it for 3 hours?
21W/12V=1.75A 4.5AH/1.75A=2.6 hours run time

Quoted message said:

SPECIFICATIONS
Bulb: 21W Metal Halide Bulb
Battery: Bottle battery /12V-4500mAH Ni-MH Battery
Charger: CATEYE AC Adapter for Charger (12VAD1622)
Operation Time: approx. 3 hours of continuous use
Charging Time: approx. 3 hours
Operating Temperature Range:
Charging 0°C - 40°C (32°F - 104°F)
Operating -15°C - 45°C (5°F - 112°F)
Recharge/Discharge Number of Times: at least 500 (until rated capacity

drops to 50%)

Quoted message said:

LIMITED WARRANTY
1-Year Warranty: Only Lamp Unit, Ballast and AC Adapter
(Excluding bulb and battery)
If trouble or damage occurs during normal use, the product will be repaired
or replaced free of charge. Type your name, address, date of purchase and
the situation of trouble clearly, and send it back to the appropriate

service

Quoted message said:

center together with the product. Insurance, handling and transportation
charges shall be borne by the customer. After being repaired or replaced,
the product will be shipped back to the customer.
Address for service:
For United States Consumers:
CATEYE Service & Research Center
1705 14th St. #115 Boulder, CO 80302
Phone: 303-443-4595 Toll Free: 800-5CATEYE
Fax: 303-473-0006 URL: http://www.cateye.com
CAT EYE CO., LTD. Japan Office

I still want one though(but at $600 it isnt going to happen)
stu

kingsley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm just guessing here, but based on existing LED lights
I've seen and used, I reckon a 3-LED headlight would be
roughly equivelant to a 2watt (3?) halogen bike light.

That sounds about right.

Quoted message said:

I think LED headlights are very good, indeed I have a
headtorch that is great for walking and camping etc - it's
just not bright enough for the nighttime in traffic riding.

It's possible to buy 10,000mCd single LEDs,
and I think a light made with a [censored] of these (see the one
in the latest Velovision Magazine) would be just as good
as halogen. But at that point, you're getting more expensive
than halogen with the same power consumption. It's probably
more reliable though (having N light sources rather than 1).

I made one a couple of years ago with 10 6000mcd LEDs and it's fine
for night commuting - probably about the equivalent of a 5W halogen.
LEDs are brighter now, and a heck of a lot cheaper than they were when
I built mine. Jaycar has 8000mcd LEDs for about $2.75 each iirc. With
10 or more of these, and the simple circuit I used you could set
yourself up with a decent light set for well under $100.

The other thing with LEDs is there extremely long life if you don't
overdrive them. 100,000 hours of life makes for a lot of reliability.

See http://members.optushome.com.au/clanmclaren/headlight.htm for more
info on my light.

Quoted message said:

I reckon in another few years LEDs will be brighter still
(and more efficient), but for the moment a nice halogen
light (5w +++) is the go.

And as they find more and more uses, they will only get cheaper.

Cheers,

Allister

kingsley said:

I'm just guessing here, but based on existing LED lights
I've seen and used, I reckon a 3-LED headlight would be
roughly equivelant to a 2watt (3?) halogen bike light.

Sorry, but nowhere near.
White LEDs have similar efficiency to good halogens,
but very different power levels.
A triple-LED is only about 0.2W. The smallest common
halogen is the 2-C-cell 2.4V, 1.2W, and is clearly far
brigher, though probably rather less efficient than a LED
or bigger halogen.
Florescent and metal halide are much more efficient.

Quoted message said:

I think LED headlights are very good, indeed I have a
headtorch that is great for walking and camping etc - it's
just not bright enough for the nighttime in traffic riding.

It's possible to buy 10,000mCd single LEDs,

Be warned! That refers to focussed beam strength, and not total
illumination. It is not candlepower.

Quoted message said:

But at that point, you're getting more expensive
than halogen with the same power consumption. It's probably
more reliable though (having N light sources rather than 1).

Even one LED is more reliable, as they do not fail suddenly
like incandescents. A flashing white LED make a good backup light.

Quoted message said:

I reckon in another few years LEDs will be brighter still
(and more efficient), but for the moment a nice halogen
light (5w +++) is the go.

LEDs are already the superior solution for rear lights. Even many
cars use them. Traffic lights too. But for white light, they lack the
natural advantage.

This is the web site for the manufacturer of the bulb in your cat eye
stadium lamp:

http://www.walamp.com

A bit of searching and you will find that there are a number of 21W
metal halide bulbs. They all seem to cost US$154.00

stu said:

Quoted message said:

The bulb unit is not user-replaceable. If it is burned out or comes to
the end of its useful life, please return it to us, along with the ballast.
We will replace it for pay.

I found part of the answer
Cant find out how long they think it will last.
the warranty excludes the bulb 🙁
have you run it for 3 hours?
21W/12V=1.75A 4.5AH/1.75A=2.6 hours run time

Quoted message said:

SPECIFICATIONS
Bulb: 21W Metal Halide Bulb
Battery: Bottle battery /12V-4500mAH Ni-MH Battery
Charger: CATEYE AC Adapter for Charger (12VAD1622)
Operation Time: approx. 3 hours of continuous use
Charging Time: approx. 3 hours
Operating Temperature Range:
Charging 0°C - 40°C (32°F - 104°F)
Operating -15°C - 45°C (5°F - 112°F)
Recharge/Discharge Number of Times: at least 500 (until rated capacity

drops to 50%)

Quoted message said:

LIMITED WARRANTY
1-Year Warranty: Only Lamp Unit, Ballast and AC Adapter
(Excluding bulb and battery)
If trouble or damage occurs during normal use, the product will be repaired
or replaced free of charge. Type your name, address, date of purchase and
the situation of trouble clearly, and send it back to the appropriate

service

Quoted message said:

center together with the product. Insurance, handling and transportation
charges shall be borne by the customer. After being repaired or replaced,
the product will be shipped back to the customer.
Address for service:
For United States Consumers:
CATEYE Service & Research Center
1705 14th St. #115 Boulder, CO 80302
Phone: 303-443-4595 Toll Free: 800-5CATEYE
Fax: 303-473-0006 URL: http://www.cateye.com
CAT EYE CO., LTD. Japan Office

I still want one though(but at $600 it isnt going to happen)
stu

--

remove pants to reply

"Allister McLaren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kingsley <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just guessing here, but based on existing LED lights
I've seen and used, I reckon a 3-LED headlight would be
roughly equivelant to a 2watt (3?) halogen bike light.

That sounds about right.

But the lumens per watt are about the same arent they?

Quoted message said:

I made one a couple of years ago with 10 6000mcd LEDs and it's fine
for night commuting - probably about the equivalent of a 5W halogen.
LEDs are brighter now, and a heck of a lot cheaper than they were when
I built mine. Jaycar has 8000mcd LEDs for about $2.75 each iirc. With
10 or more of these, and the simple circuit I used you could set
yourself up with a decent light set for well under $100.

So I am tight as, can I get some leds like these
White 16,000mcd 3.2-3.6V-drop at $2.20 each for 10+
http://www.ledsales.com.au/leds.htm
then hook then up in banks of 3 in series. (i.e. overdriven by 10%, well ok
max overdrive of 17.5% if the battery is at 12.7V) maybe banks of 4 would be
better. Then I would just need a switch right?
If I really want a dimmer I could just have 3 or 4 banks and a tripple throw
switch. To have 1, 2 or 3/4 banks on

Quoted message said:

The other thing with LEDs is there extremely long life if you don't
overdrive them. 100,000 hours of life makes for a lot of reliability.

If I shortened there life by 90% I still wont be worried

Stu

p.s.If you are looking for cheap batteries and dont mind ordering from the
states(not sure they will ship here.
US$24.99 for 2x6V 4000mAh packs
http://www.batteryspace.com/product.asp?0=217&1=227&3=169

"kingsley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaveB said:

I'm looking at buying a new headlight for the winter once daylight
sasvings ends. I've noticed some are rated in watts and some rated in
candles. I'm not sure if it's coincidence but it seems the battery
lights are in candles and the rechargeables are in watts. Is that the
case? Is there any way to compare the output between watts and candles?

Isn't it only the LED lights that are measured in candellas(sp?)
This arises from each LED having an output measured in mCd.

mcds are much good as a measure either 🙁
then beam comes into it them
http://shops.bizarsoftware.com.au/ATAShop/catalogue/category16/category41/category65

wouldnt it be nice if there was an easy answer

stu said:

So I am tight as, can I get some leds like these
White 16,000mcd 3.2-3.6V-drop at $2.20 each for 10+
http://www.ledsales.com.au/leds.htm

Interesting. Those have 4 LED chips per package, and a wider beam.
I'd like to know how many lumens they are. Why don't they quote that
vital number?
For a bike light, you may be better using the ones listed lower down:

White 10,000 3.2-3.6V 15° 5mm $0.70 $0.60

Same $/W but more focussed beam. But a 5W lamp will need
around 70 LEDs, about a 4cmx4cm panel.

The comments and spec's given are contradictory.
12cd @ 180° is far more than 16cd @50°, or 4 x 10cd @15° .

Quoted message said:

then hook then up in banks of 3 in series. (i.e. overdriven by 10%, well ok
max overdrive of 17.5% if the battery is at 12.7V) maybe banks of 4 would be

LEDs do not work that way! It isnt a resistive load. You should control
the current. Simple LED torches just use a resistor in series.

Quoted message said:

p.s.If you are looking for cheap batteries and dont mind ordering from the
states(not sure they will ship here.
US$24.99 for 2x6V 4000mAh packs
http://www.batteryspace.com/product.asp?0=217&1=227&3=169

Or similarly get brand new 24xAA, 2AHr
http://www.batteryspace.com/product.asp?3=246

They ship USPS, so hopefully no customs hassles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So I am tight as, can I get some leds like these
White 16,000mcd 3.2-3.6V-drop at $2.20 each for 10+
http://www.ledsales.com.au/leds.htm

Interesting. Those have 4 LED chips per package, and a wider beam.
I'd like to know how many lumens they are. Why don't they quote that
vital number?

Because that would make life easy and we cant have that

Quoted message said:

For a bike light, you may be better using the ones listed lower down:

White 10,000 3.2-3.6V 15° 5mm $0.70 $0.60

Same $/W but more focussed beam. But a 5W lamp will need
around 70 LEDs, about a 4cmx4cm panel.

The comments and spec's given are contradictory.
12cd @ 180° is far more than 16cd @50°, or 4 x 10cd @15° .

Quoted message said:

then hook then up in banks of 3 in series. (i.e. overdriven by 10%, well

ok

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

max overdrive of 17.5% if the battery is at 12.7V) maybe banks of 4

would be

Quoted message said:

LEDs do not work that way! It isnt a resistive load. You should control
the current. Simple LED torches just use a resistor in series.

Because that would make life easy and we cant have that.
I have done it with 4 little red LEDS and it worked for the time that I was
playing around with them(so without the resistor what happens? the draw to
much current, get to hot and die?)

If there isnt an easy answer dont worry. I know just enough about this stuff
to get myself in trouble lol. So maybe I should stick with SLA and halogen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

p.s.If you are looking for cheap batteries and dont mind ordering from

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

states(not sure they will ship here.
US$24.99 for 2x6V 4000mAh packs
http://www.batteryspace.com/product.asp?0=217&1=227&3=169

Or similarly get brand new 24xAA, 2AHr
http://www.batteryspace.com/product.asp?3=246

They ship USPS, so hopefully no customs hassles.

damn thats $102 worth at jaycar, for about $30

stu said:

Quoted message said:

LEDs do not work that way! It isnt a resistive load. You should control
the current. Simple LED torches just use a resistor in series.

Because that would make life easy and we cant have that.
I have done it with 4 little red LEDS and it worked for the time that I was
playing around with them(so without the resistor what happens? the draw to
much current, get to hot and die?)

Yes. Current increases rapidly with voltage. (It IS a diode!)

Quoted message said:

If there isnt an easy answer dont worry. I know just enough about this stuff
to get myself in trouble lol. So maybe I should stick with SLA and halogen

SLA? No way. Too heavy, and poor efficiency at high drain.
On bike lights, you are lucky to get 2AHr from a 4AHr rated SLA.
Now that NiMH are so cheap there is no good reason to buy SLA.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.batteryspace.com/product.asp?3=246

They ship USPS, so hopefully no customs hassles.

damn thats $102 worth at jaycar, for about $30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

LEDs do not work that way! It isnt a resistive load. You should control
the current. Simple LED torches just use a resistor in series.

Because that would make life easy and we cant have that.
I have done it with 4 little red LEDS and it worked for the time that I

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

playing around with them(so without the resistor what happens? the draw

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much current, get to hot and die?)

Yes. Current increases rapidly with voltage. (It IS a diode!)

yes but, 4 LEDS over 12.7V = 3.175V per LED
BAH I told you I only knew enough to get myself in trouble.
http://www.theledlight.com/LED101.html
ok I think I got it now, if i was just to use LEDs the output would vary to
much with the voltage. right?????

Quoted message said:

SLA? No way. Too heavy, and poor efficiency at high drain.
On bike lights, you are lucky to get 2AHr from a 4AHr rated SLA.
Now that NiMH are so cheap there is no good reason to buy SLA.

I am about 93kgs on a 15kg bike, so the difference between 910g for NiMh and
2.5kgs for SLA isnt much of a problem yet. I get better than 5AHr out of a
7AHrSLA and I sure dont know enough to charge NiMh. But I am watching and
learning. So maybe next time for NiMh.
thanks
stu

stu said:

BAH I told you I only knew enough to get myself in trouble.
http://www.theledlight.com/LED101.html
ok I think I got it now, if i was just to use LEDs the output would vary to
much with the voltage. right?????

Yes. Current varies dramatically with voltage. It can easily overheat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SLA? No way. Too heavy, and poor efficiency at high drain.
On bike lights, you are lucky to get 2AHr from a 4AHr rated SLA.
Now that NiMH are so cheap there is no good reason to buy SLA.

I am about 93kgs on a 15kg bike, so the difference between 910g for NiMh and
2.5kgs for SLA isnt much of a problem yet.

I was thinking more like 300g (10xAA 2AHr) vs 1.5kg for a 4AHr SLA,
either of which will do around 10W for 2 hours.

Quoted message said:

I get better than 5AHr out of a 7AHr SLA

At lower % drain rates, you get better efficiency. But that 7AHr is heavy!

Quoted message said:

learning. So maybe next time for NiMh.

If you are buying new, then yes. I didnt mean to say throw away an
existing SLA and charger.

Hi N

I strongly recommend a "hub dynamo" (I hope that's what it is called i
english). It is very efficient in converting part of your pedallin
power into electricity (even when a normal dynamo would slip due t
rain) and in conjunction with a dtoplight you get the perfect lightin
sytem: you don't need any batteries that only last 3h as you would fo
the 600$ system so introduced, it requires a very low level o
maintenace and with the dtop front and rear light "plus" you even ge
light while you're waiting at a traffic light for a couple of minutes
Most importantly (as this thread mainly focus on it), the luminosity i
excellent - it fills a whole lane with sufficient light to detect eve
small bumps and obstacles and your visibilty increases massivel
concerning road safety. You can get the complete system for abou
160$Aus and it weighs 1160g. BTW, another great feature: when you
riding through a tunnel the system automatically activates. Oh, I nearl
forgot, they state the light intensity as 20LUX! HTH

Johann Dugg

I couldn't find an australian shop right away, so heres a link to
german shop: the hub dynamo ("nabendynamo"😉 http://www.fahrrad
richter.de/product_info.php/products_id/284 front light: http://www.fahrrad
richter.de/product_info.php/products_id/1942 rear light: http://www.fahrrad
richter.de/product_info.php/products_id/33

-

someone was trying to email me and didn't see the sig line that said.
[email hidden]
remove pants to reply

agamlen said:

This is the web site for the manufacturer of the bulb in your cat eye
stadium lamp:

http://www.walamp.com

A bit of searching and you will find that there are a number of 21W
metal halide bulbs. They all seem to cost US$154.00

stu said:

Quoted message said:

The bulb unit is not user-replaceable. If it is burned out or comes to
the end of its useful life, please return it to us, along with the
ballast.
We will replace it for pay.

I found part of the answer
Cant find out how long they think it will last.
the warranty excludes the bulb 🙁
have you run it for 3 hours?
21W/12V=1.75A 4.5AH/1.75A=2.6 hours run time

Quoted message said:

SPECIFICATIONS
Bulb: 21W Metal Halide Bulb
Battery: Bottle battery /12V-4500mAH Ni-MH Battery
Charger: CATEYE AC Adapter for Charger (12VAD1622)
Operation Time: approx. 3 hours of continuous use
Charging Time: approx. 3 hours
Operating Temperature Range:
Charging 0°C - 40°C (32°F - 104°F)
Operating -15°C - 45°C (5°F - 112°F)
Recharge/Discharge Number of Times: at least 500 (until rated capacity

drops to 50%)

Quoted message said:

LIMITED WARRANTY
1-Year Warranty: Only Lamp Unit, Ballast and AC Adapter
(Excluding bulb and battery)
If trouble or damage occurs during normal use, the product will be
repaired
or replaced free of charge. Type your name, address, date of purchase
and
the situation of trouble clearly, and send it back to the appropriate

service

Quoted message said:

center together with the product. Insurance, handling and transportation
charges shall be borne by the customer. After being repaired or
replaced,
the product will be shipped back to the customer.
Address for service:
For United States Consumers:
CATEYE Service & Research Center
1705 14th St. #115 Boulder, CO 80302
Phone: 303-443-4595 Toll Free: 800-5CATEYE
Fax: 303-473-0006 URL: http://www.cateye.com
CAT EYE CO., LTD. Japan Office

I still want one though(but at $600 it isnt going to happen)
stu

--

remove pants to reply

[QUOTE What you really want to know is Lumen

st

Isnt that Luppins (aka monty python) ??

-