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Light & Motion 3-watt LED headlight

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Road Cycling
Published
13 October 2005
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15 October 2005
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David L. Johnson
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  1. Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
    _`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
    (_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
    trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
    business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

  2. "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The test I
    read indicated that it might well be sufficient for standalone road use, and
    it certainly looks convenient to use. Reviews are good; see:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega

    and

    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop

    I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.

    RichC

  3. David L. Johnson said:

    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    I bought one for my wife. We took it for a test ride along with the car.
    It's amazingly visible from the perspectives of another road user. She
    thought it was adequate for seeing on an unlit street on a downhill
    curve. We think its a great light.

    Wayne

  4. David L. Johnson said:


    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    Check out the cateye EL500. I run a pair of these through a tinted
    fairing & am very pleased.

    Indiana Mike

  5. Mike Rice said:


    David L. Johnson said:


    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    Check out the cateye EL500. I run a pair of these through a tinted
    fairing & am very pleased.

    Indiana Mike

    I use four EL500's, which means I like the light, but two is marginal.

    One of them I use more as a canary, with a lower capacity battery, to warn
    when they all need to be recharged, by its going dim (leaving the other
    three working). Rechargeables with LEDs don't give enough warning to cover
    the rest of the trip, otherwise, when they start to run out.

    Don't run them far into dimness, or you'll reverse-charge the weakest of the
    four AA batteries with the other three.

    --
    Ron Hardin
    [email hidden]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

  6. Rich Clark said:

    I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.

    Looking forward to it.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
    _`\(,_ | mathematics.
    (_)/ (_) |

  7. Rich Clark said:


    "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The test I
    read indicated that it might well be sufficient for standalone road use, and
    it certainly looks convenient to use. Reviews are good; see:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega

    and

    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop

    I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.

    RichC

    http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
    Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
    Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or £40, and ouptuts 800
    candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
    high.

    On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
    hours on 4 AA.

  8. Joe Faust said:

    http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
    Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
    Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or £40, and ouptuts 800
    candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
    high.

    On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
    hours on 4 AA.

    Have you compared the actual lights, or just their published specs?

    RichC

  9. Joe Faust said:
    Rich Clark said:

    "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
    light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
    My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
    something as usable.

    I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The test I
    read indicated that it might well be sufficient for standalone road use, and
    it certainly looks convenient to use. Reviews are good; see:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega

    and

    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop

    I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.

    RichC

    http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
    Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
    Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or £40, and ouptuts 800
    candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
    high.

    On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
    hours on 4 AA.

    Something sounds a little fishy. If a 2.5W (halogen) light runs for 3 hr
    on 4 AA's, how can a 1W light run 30 hr on the same batteries?

    I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
    lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries. I find it to be comparable
    to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of those). I paid
    about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as $8 recently. The
    current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more efficient than
    halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.

  10. "Rich Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:


    "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights
    adequate to light the road --- to see as well as to be seen?
    Anyone use these yet? My Nightrider battery is dying and
    irreplaceable, and I am looking for something as usable.

    I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The
    test I read indicated that it might well be sufficient for
    standalone road use, and it certainly looks convenient to use.
    Reviews are good; see:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_m
    otion_vega

    and

    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Ca
    tegory=Shop

    I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.

    RichC

    I'll admit I'm a little ignorant with regards to lighting. I have a
    VistaLite Nightstick 15 (two lamps: a 5W and 10W). I mostly use the 5W
    to shine at oncoming cars, and the 10W down on the road in front of me.
    Even with the 10W lamp, I sometimes feel that I'd like even more light
    than I have.

    Now, this Light & Motion is only a 3W light. Is that really enough for
    nighttime commuting on the road? Or, are there other standards I need to
    know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
    VistaLite?

    Just trying to learn a bit more....

    --
    Eric Babula
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention
    of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body.
    But rather, it’s to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
    totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'Wow! What a ride!!!'

  11. Rich Clark wrote:
    :: "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :: news:[email hidden]...
    :::
    ::: Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights
    ::: adequate to light the road --- to see as well as to be seen?
    ::: Anyone use these yet? My Nightrider battery is dying and
    ::: irreplaceable, and I am looking for something as usable.
    ::
    :: I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday. The
    :: test I read indicated that it might well be sufficient for
    :: standalone road use, and it certainly looks convenient to use.
    :: Reviews are good; see:
    ::
    ::
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega
    ::
    :: and
    ::
    ::
    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop
    ::
    :: I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.

    I'll be looking forward to your follow up. I got my Nite-Hawk Emitter out
    the day before yesterday...bought it last winter but didn't use it because I
    didn't feel comfortable riding without being able to see off the the sides -
    the beam is pretty narrow. So now i'm thinking of two lights on the handle
    bars and one on the helmet. Anywho, I been testing the run-time on the
    Nite-Hawk on the high beam. It's supposed to last 9 hours in that mode, but
    so far it's been going for well over 24 hours -- it will be 36 hours by
    12:35 pm today...the beam is a nice bright white and hasn't weaked at all.
    In fact, last night the power in my neighborhood went out for over 2 hours.
    So I used this light to see...since I couldn't go to the gym (no power), I
    decided to do a dumbell workout at home. After that, as I was getting hot, I
    went for a nice walk (I didn't go for a bike ride simply because I didn't
    want to spend time trying to put the mounting bracket on the bike in the
    dark - in my garage - where creepy crawly things live). Anywho, the light
    was able to enable me to see the road well, even though there was a partial
    full moon out. I'm a little concerned that maybe I'm not getting the
    appropriate amount of light out of this unit as it's been going well over
    the rated 9 hours for the high beam...the low beam is supposed to go for 92
    hours or something like that. And these are the same batteries I put in
    there last winter, even though I haven't really used the unit much. Also, I
    do enjoy the bright white light...I'm not sure how I'd feel about the blue
    tint on the Light & Motion....I'd be happy to hear your comments about that,
    Rich.

  12. Peter Cole wrote:
    :: Joe Faust wrote:
    ::: On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:18:12 -0400, "Rich Clark"
    ::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
    :::
    :::
    :::: "David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :::: news:[email hidden]...
    ::::
    ::::: Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights
    ::::: adequate to light the road --- to see as well as to be seen?
    ::::: Anyone use these yet? My Nightrider battery is dying and
    ::::: irreplaceable, and I am looking for something as usable.
    ::::
    :::: I ordered one that I expect to be delivered tomorrow or Friday.
    :::: The test I read indicated that it might well be sufficient for
    :::: standalone road use, and it certainly looks convenient to use.
    :::: Reviews are good; see:
    ::::
    ::::
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/light_and_motion_vega
    ::::
    :::: and
    ::::
    ::::
    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop
    ::::
    :::: I'll follow up next week after I've had a chance to use it.
    ::::
    :::: RichC
    :::
    :::
    :::
    http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
    ::: Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega
    ::: LED Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or £40, and
    ::: ouptuts 800 candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175
    ::: and 95 lumen on high.
    :::
    ::: On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
    ::: hours on 4 AA.
    :::
    ::
    :: Something sounds a little fishy. If a 2.5W (halogen) light runs for
    :: 3 hr on 4 AA's, how can a 1W light run 30 hr on the same batteries?
    ::
    :: I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
    :: lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries.

    May I ask why you got ride of it? I bought one last winter that I never
    really have used because I don't like having dark to the sides and also due
    to the fact that I can't see my bike on a really dark night. so I'm thinking
    of getting a helmet light too, and maybe adding a second light on the
    handlebar, just to get a wider beam. I have been testing my Nitehawk
    Emitter since the night before last....so far it's still going on high beam
    for over 24 hours....sounds fishy to me, perhaps this unit is defective and
    my high beam is not what it should be. I have no means for comparison,
    since I don't have another Emitter.

    I find it to be
    :: comparable to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of
    :: those). I paid about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as
    :: $8 recently. The current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more
    :: efficient than halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.

  13. Rich Clark wrote:

    ::
    ::
    http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop

    I don't know if I can trust my impressions over this video, BUT, my
    impression is that my Nite-hawk Emitter has a slightly wider beam and lasts
    longer (currently over 24 hours on high beam!). And the bright white light
    is nice....

    I'd love to hear comments on this....

  14. Roger Zoul said:

    Peter Cole wrote:
    :: Joe Faust wrote:
    ::: On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
    ::: hours on 4 AA.
    :::
    ::
    :: Something sounds a little fishy. If a 2.5W (halogen) light runs for
    :: 3 hr on 4 AA's, how can a 1W light run 30 hr on the same batteries?
    ::
    :: I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
    :: lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries.

    May I ask why you got ride of it? I bought one last winter that I never
    really have used because I don't like having dark to the sides and also due
    to the fact that I can't see my bike on a really dark night.

    I still have it, I bought it for my son, who crashed and broke the mount
    (oddly, the light was not on the bike), I've been debating whether to go
    through Nitehawk's reportedly crappy customer service to get a new one.
    I've been using it as a work light, unfortunately I found that exposure
    to automobile brake fluid (don't ask) caused the lens to crack. It still
    works fine though. As a matter of fact, last week it allowed us to pick
    our way through a narrow 3/4 mile harbor channel when we got caught out
    after sunset on our sailboat in a very dense fog.

    Quoted message said:

    I have been testing my Nitehawk
    Emitter since the night before last....so far it's still going on high beam
    for over 24 hours....sounds fishy to me, perhaps this unit is defective and
    my high beam is not what it should be. I have no means for comparison,
    since I don't have another Emitter.

    I'm still on my original batteries, I'm guessing my total time used so
    far is several hours, although I haven't been keeping track. I'd be
    surprised if the light's burn time was really that much longer than
    Nitehawk's own spec of 8 hr -- which relates roughly to a 1W electrical
    load. My concern with the lights that claim 1W and 30 hr is that they're
    using some kind of "incandescent equivalent" rating, like some of the
    florescent bulb makers do.

    During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high" setting?

    When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
    and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower, but
    had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about equal in
    usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being much longer
    battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over battery life
    being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another when
    I can find it for $30-35USD.

  15. Eric Babula said:

    I'll admit I'm a little ignorant with regards to lighting. I have a
    VistaLite Nightstick 15 (two lamps: a 5W and 10W). I mostly use the 5W
    to shine at oncoming cars, and the 10W down on the road in front of me.
    Even with the 10W lamp, I sometimes feel that I'd like even more light
    than I have.

    Now, this Light & Motion is only a 3W light. Is that really enough for
    nighttime commuting on the road?

    Don't you have any compact florescent lightbulbs? "60 watts of light for
    only 14 watts of power"? Different lights use power differently.
    Florescent bulbs are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, since less of
    the energy is wasted as heat.

    It's the same idea with various bike lights. Current halogen bulbs are
    more efficient than standard incandescent, and HID is even better. But
    LED lights are better still, in terms of light per watt. The limitation
    with LEDs has been getting one big enough with enough output to use as a
    headlight, and with a decent color. Taillights are almost universally
    LEDs now, since they give off great be-seen light and even tiny batteries
    last nearly forever. That was not the case for incandescent rear lights.

    Or, are there other standards I need to

    Quoted message said:

    know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
    VistaLite?

    This is more or less the question I asked. It seems at least close.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
    _`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
    (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

  16. David L. Johnson said:

    On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:48:32 +0000, Eric Babula wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    Or, are there other standards I need to

    Quoted message said:

    know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
    VistaLite?

    This is more or less the question I asked. It seems at least close.

    I have a 15W single-lamp Niterider halogen, which has been a reliable
    and sufficiencly bright light. But the battery uses up a bottle cage,
    and now alsoneeds to be replaced.

    I have a dual-halogen Performance light, with 15W total (one flood, one
    spot), that has also been reliable but is not as subjectively bright as
    the Niterider, and the very heavy battery also takes up a bottle cage.

    And I have an Emitter, the Performance-branded one. It is not
    sufficient by itself, but I value it as a supplement/backup in case of
    lamp or battery failure of my main light.

    I'm trying the L&M Vega in hope that it can equal the Niterider in
    terms of overall brightness on the pavement, and allow me to reclaim
    that bottle cage. Not having that second cage available makes me have
    to carry my coffee thermos elsewhere, which forces me to add a pannier,
    and the whole thing ends up adding an inordinate amount of weight to
    the bike just to accommodate the battery. So it will be worth it to me
    if I can use this new self-contained light instead, perhaps in tandem
    with the Emitter.

    RichC

  17. David L. Johnson said:


    Don't you have any compact florescent lightbulbs? "60 watts of light for
    only 14 watts of power"? Different lights use power differently.
    Florescent bulbs are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, since less of
    the energy is wasted as heat.

    It's the same idea with various bike lights. Current halogen bulbs are
    more efficient than standard incandescent, and HID is even better. But
    LED lights are better still, in terms of light per watt.

    I don't believe that's the case.

    I know LEDs are improving very rapidly. But people have been claiming
    for years that white LEDs are more efficient (more lumens per watt)
    than halogen bulbs. It's my understanding that it only _recently_
    became true for some white LEDs, but not most of them.

    AFAIK, nobody is claiming that LEDs are more efficient than HID lamps.

    Admittedly I'm just going by memory, and I've found data rather hard to
    come by. But see
    http://www2.whidbey.net/opto/LEDFAQ/The%20LED%20FAQ%20Pages.html#Q7
    as one reference on this point.

    Again, LEDs are improving rapidly. And that page is a few years old, I
    think. But it's a little early to imagine LEDs beat all comers.

    BTW, I think red LEDs beat red incandescents long ago, partly because
    the incandescent actually puts out white (i.e. a mix of wavelengths)
    and the red lens absorbed most of that white, leaving only the red to
    pass. That caused much less efficiency than a white incandescent.

    - Frank Krygowski

  18. Peter Cole said:

    I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
    lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries. I find it to be comparable
    to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of those). I paid
    about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as $8 recently. The
    current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more efficient than
    halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.

    Unfortunately, much of the efficiency gain is lost because it is not
    possible to focus the output of the LED very well.

    When you move to the 5W LEDs, they have a very short lifetime, and are
    expensive to replace, but the 3W LEDs have a reasonable lifespan.

    For "being seen" the LED lights are excellent, but for lighting up the
    road they are not great.

    REI has a good deal on the CygoLite Night Rover NiMH XTRA, for $70. It's
    one 6W and one 10W beam.
    "http://www.rei.com/product/47842645.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CYCLING_TOC"

  19. Eric Babula said:

    Now, this Light & Motion is only a 3W light. Is that really enough for
    nighttime commuting on the road? Or, are there other standards I need to
    know about, so that this lamp gives off as much or more light than my
    VistaLite?

    I believe candlepower ratings are what you'd want to compare.

    Three Watts can be plenty sufficient for night time *road*
    commuting. I use a 3W Lumotec Plus light powered by a
    generator on my primary commuter.

    How the lense shapes the light is really more important I
    think than a Wattage rating.

    SMH

  20. SMS said:
    Peter Cole said:

    I have had a Nitehawk Emitter for about 6 months, which is a 1W LED
    lamp. Its rated for 8 hr with 4 AA batteries. I find it to be
    comparable to a 2.5W halogen like the Cateye MicroII (I have 3 of
    those). I paid about $30 for the Nitehawk, the Cateyes are as low as
    $8 recently. The current generation of white LEDs are somewhat more
    efficient than halogen, perhaps 2x, but not 10x.

    Unfortunately, much of the efficiency gain is lost because it is not
    possible to focus the output of the LED very well.

    Given that the actual emitting surface of the LED is small, I'd think it
    would be easier to focus them. The uniformity of the narrow Nitehawk
    lamp seems to bear that out, if anything, the beam might be too narrow,
    suggesting that it collimates well with a relatively small reflector. I
    find them impressive side-by-side with a 2.5W halogen, but not
    stunningly so -- by that I mean comparable light at a bit more than 1/3
    the power consumption and a nicer beam pattern. Like those halogens, I
    think it qualifies as a "bare minimum" bike light.

    http://members.misty.com/don/led.html#w

    UPDATE 7/31/2005: Lumileds white Luxeons typically produce 45 lumens at
    350 mA with a typical voltage drop at 3.42 mA. This works out to 37.6
    lumens/watt, although at a chip temperature of 25 degrees C which
    requires a heatsink temperature of typically 1 degree C.

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