Ligget is part of the problem

Frigo's Luggage said:

This situation is completely screwed up. Everybody is to blame: UCI, ASO, riders, managers, teams...and yes, Phil Liggett. Either the guy is the most naive person I've ever seen or he is a schill trying to hide the sports problems for his personal benefit. I think it is the latter which makes him part of the problem. Journalists are supposed to report the truth. He ignores the ugly side in order to maintain his ratings.

Ban Phil now.

He calls the race. He doesn't work for the New York Times.

I think he/they just dont want to spend the entire telecast talking doping. If they did everyone would be [censored] that they dont shut up about doping. Its better to keep doping limited to the first 5 minutes of coverage. Its better to stick to the job they were hired to do. Talk about the race itself.

thebluetrain said:

I think he/they just dont want to spend the entire telecast talking doping. If they did everyone would be [censored] that they dont shut up about doping. Its better to keep doping limited to the first 5 minutes of coverage. Its better to stick to the job they were hired to do. Talk about the race itself.

Amen.

thebluetrain said:

I think he/they just dont want to spend the entire telecast talking doping. If they did everyone would be [censored] that they dont shut up about doping. Its better to keep doping limited to the first 5 minutes of coverage. Its better to stick to the job they were hired to do. Talk about the race itself.

How can he talk about 'the race itself' without discussing why the pre-race favourate and now the leader are no longer present, and how that has affected the dynamics of the race? Yesterday was a case in point. Ras isolated against two Disco's and he nails them. But take Ras out of the picture and the pace would have been slower up the Aubisque and Evans could have stayed on? Or maybe it would have been faster and Evans would have been blown away. Doping is part of the race, there's no avoiding it.

Phil has always been a doping apologist, or at least gives the benefit of the doubt to the point of being ridiculous.

The Eurosport guys do a much better job of dealing with the issue.

Wayne666 said:

Phil has always been a doping apologist, or at least gives the benefit of the doubt to the point of being ridiculous.

The Eurosport guys do a much better job of dealing with the issue.

Agreed, even Kelly was laying into them yesterday.

I started a similar thread about Phil the Shill a few days ago to less than universal approval, so obviously I share Tonto/Frigo's sentiments. The Tour has always been a cultural as well as a sporting institution. It has never taken place in its own vacuum and to ignore everything that ebbs and flows around it is both ignorant and dishonest. No one ever pretended that farmers didn't disrupt stages with political protests. Nobody ignored the fact that racing was suspended for a stage because Casartelli had crashed and died. And yet, when the whole basis of the race (stage winners disqualified, GC turned upside down, etc.) is distorted because of the drugs issue, Phil and friend bypass it as an inconvenient truth. Of course no one wishes them to witter on incontinently about it all day, but it is journalistically fraudulent not to address the overwhelmingly significantly issue at some length and with appropriate profundity.

In complete contrast, over on Eurosport the mainly excellent duo of Harmon/Kelly always acknowledge that they have a duty to discuss the unpleasant events that have developed. They do so so with some understanding of the depth of the problem and its backwash but also with the same resignation and annoyance that most fans feel. The kindly old boy that does the supplementary background stuff even confessed that he felt so dispirited that he seriously considered calling it a day and retiring. That's honesty, and is rather different to the risible, cheerleading rubbish that is Phil's staple fare.

Seems a bit of a stretch blaming a commentator for the drug problems. By similar analogy, Walshe et al are partly to blame for whipping up a storm in the opposite direction, no?

No, thought not.

phil has been a little bit off on the doping thing since i first saw him comment on doping during the 88 tour when delgado came under fire. he went so far as to say delgado had done nothing at all wrong and that it was a very poor reaction to implicate him.

as we all know now, delgado had to have been using probenicide for juicing purposes.

phil should have just explained the circumstances and allowed the viewer to draw their own conclusions instead of casting a stone a tour organizers who leaked the story.

Television is no different than professional cycling in one respect -- it's about money. The riders dope because they want to get paid. Liggett works for Vs. for the same reason. In Europe, you all have much more fun flagellating yourselves with misery at each new doping revelation. You call the sport your own, after all, and I can understand why it pains you to see that it's rotten to the core. The European viewer probably wants Harmon/Kelly to preach doom and gloom for the vicarious pleasure of the typical European viewer.

Here in the U.S., we have plenty of problems with our major sporting leagues. The most hallowed record in all of U.S. professional sports is about to be broken by a man engrossed in his own smarmy doping scandal. Arguably the biggest star in the NFL has just been indicted for dog fighting and suspended from his team until further notice. An NBA official has been accused of gambling and intentionally affecting the outcome of games, which has given fuel to the fire of those who have suspected that league has been fixed for years.

So there's Vs., trying to get ratings for a cycling event that still struggles to capture the attention of the casual sports-television viewer. Those of us who are already cycling fans will watch the coverage whether they're doped to the gills or not -- we're starved for televised cycling, and we'll take what we can get even if we see people hanging out of team cars sticking the riders with syringes during the races.

But focusing on doping wouldn't pay the bills for Vs. As I said above, we already have enough sports scandal over here. Liggett and Sherwen are paid to try to make the cycling itself interesting, and to glide as smoothly as possible past its dirty underbelly. Maybe you think they're wrong to not stand up for their principles and quit rather than to continue to craft their commentary for the American audience. Personally, I think they're just doing the job they get paid to do. They are not doping, nor are they glorifying doping. It's not their job to opine on whether the riders competing are on the juice or not. It's their job to broadcast the racing by assuming that if the cycling federations and their teams are letting a rider on the bike, then he deserves to be treated like an athlete, not a suspect. And when scandal arises, there are hundreds of eager journalists ready to carve the suspects into bloody pieces. That's not what those two get paid to do.

Phil Liggett and Bob Roll are utter disgraces.

Worthless.

Al Trautwig could replaces these two imbeciles anytime.

Frankie Andreu and Robbie Ventura are pathetic too.

Doctor.House said:

Phil Liggett and Bob Roll are utter disgraces.

Worthless.

Al Trautwig could replaces these two imbeciles anytime.

Frankie Andreu and Robbie Ventura are pathetic too.

This is what Phil had to say:

versus.com40117Open ↗

Quoted post said:

The new leader of the race will be young Spaniard, Alberto Contador, 1:53 ahead of Cadel Evans and Levi Leipheimer who is plus-56 seconds in third. Thank heavens none of these three riders have ever been remotely suspected in dealing with drugs and could now turn out to be the race’s saviors.

Why would he say such a thing?

Al came out today during the pre raceshow and said, he'd hope they could give the win to Evans. He at least implied that Contador could be juiced.

LOL ! Another dumbass thread.

lw

Phil's been churning out this kind of stuff in Brit bike mags for years. It's always the same old spiel employing any or all of the following phrases; tiny minority, this positive proves that testing works, testing's a real deterrent, all the Brit's are clean. This last one had to go in cold storage for a while, but it's back.
With all the advantages of his longterm, ringside seat if he actually believes this tripe he must be a real dumbass. If he's just bigging up the hand that feeds him then he's merely dishonest. The possibility that he is both dumb and dishonest has, of course, occurred to me.

Cobblestones said:

This is what Phil had to say:

versus.com40117Open ↗

Why would he say such a thing?

Al came out today during the pre raceshow and said, he'd hope they could give the win to Evans. He at least implied that Contador could be juiced.

Gregers said:

Phil's been churning out this kind of stuff in Brit bike mags for years. It's always the same old spiel employing any or all of the following phrases; tiny minority, this positive proves that testing works, testing's a real deterrent, all the Brit's are clean. This last one had to go in cold storage for a while, but it's back.
With all the advantages of his longterm, ringside seat if he actually believes this tripe he must be a real dumbass. If he's just bigging up the hand that feeds him then he's merely dishonest. The possibility that he is both dumb and dishonest has, of course, occurred to me.

Agreed : Ligget and Sherwen are a symptom of the disease that is doping in the sport.
They're talking heads but they're more interested in selling the sport, than offering critical analysis of racing in all it's forms/issues.

limerickman said:

Agreed : Ligget and Sherwen are a symptom of the disease that is doping in the sport.
They're talking heads but they're more interested in selling the sport, than offering critical analysis of racing in all it's forms/issues.

And its obvious that they have something to gain by helping to retain Discovery Channel as a sponsor. I don't think Al Trautig got the memo though as he implicated Alpuerto in the doping mess, provoking stunned and stoney silence from the rest of the panel.

Crankyfeet said:

And its obvious that they have something to gain by helping to retain Discovery Channel as a sponsor.

Duh. If America turns off the Tour, they don't have a job.

nns1400 said:

Duh. If America turns off the Tour, they don't have a job.

didn't they have a job when CBS devoted all of 30 minutes a week to the TdF?

that being said---it does make one wonder. Phil on one hand advocates lifetime ban for first offense vice the two-year first offense currently in place.

on the other hand....

nns1400 said:

Duh. If America turns off the Tour, they don't have a job.

Duh. I thought that point was already clear in my post. I've noticed that a lot of people are [censored] with Liggett and Sherwen's bias towards Disco on this forum, but they don't explain (or know) that indirectly Disco feeds them by attracting their American audience. Not that sucking up to your pseudo-boss gets my respect when it involves twisting reality.