Life bans for doping

Quoted message said:

In the case of landis it seems he's put personal glory before the sport

the fact that Amber wanted Floyd to put on a t-patch doesn't bother me.
it's all the doping, in training, that turned simple folk into supermen that
did it for me.

Xavier Santiago Amarillo - Dentista said:

we achieve in life via merit not cheating the
system

Carnegie. Rockefeller. Gates.

Just three examples. Did what it took to get what they wanted, and they
got a lot.

Later, they dodged taxes and bought public favor (in some eyes) by
giving some percentage away.

Let's stop scapegoating cyclists who are only part of a very broken
system, OK?

If the guy next to you can dope and not get caught, and testing catches
very, very few, the choices are obvious.

Testing, as done currently, is the problem, not any kind of solution.
--D-y

No, the problem is that doping controls have no credibility. It seems
that recently, more people have been busted through investigation than
testing. Things like the illegal test of Lance's 1999 TdF samples,
"positive" tests for products that do not enhance performance, and a
lack of basic respect for the athletes don't help the matter. Attack the
system, not the athletes.

Xavier Santiago Amarillo - Dentista said:

Got to be the ultimate solution. the Landis affair (along with the "spanish
affair"😉 has made a mockery of cycle sport this year.
enough is enough.
reading about phonak I'm quite angry that personal irresponsibilty has led
to one of the greatest sporting spectacles being dragged into the mire.
but OTOH this has been going on since Tom Simpson and before.

In the case of landis it seems he's put personal glory before the sport and
that simply isn't right, we achieve in life via merit not cheating the
system so all in all it's only right that the system has spewed him back
out.

Where do you live and work that people achieve in life via
merit, not cheating, gaming the system, and backstabbing?
Can the rest of us move there?

Life bans are not the ultimate solution. 4 year bans from the
Protour are more severe than doping suspensions used to be,
and riders still do it - because most of the time, they figure
they won't get caught. The way to reduce offenses is to make
the chance of getting caught much higher, not to make the
penalties super-sized. Also, if you give life bans for every
infraction, federations will find way to let people off for minor
infractions. For ex, some guy gets caught with a bronchodilator
in his system and comes up with a BS excuse - the fed will
accept it to avoid suspending a guy for life for a drug that is
much less effective than (for example) EPO.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Xavier Santiago Amarillo - Dentista said:

Got to be the ultimate solution. the Landis affair (along with the

"spanish

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

affair"😉 has made a mockery of cycle sport this year.
enough is enough.
reading about phonak I'm quite angry that personal irresponsibilty has

led

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to one of the greatest sporting spectacles being dragged into the mire.
but OTOH this has been going on since Tom Simpson and before.

In the case of landis it seems he's put personal glory before the sport

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that simply isn't right, we achieve in life via merit not cheating the
system so all in all it's only right that the system has spewed him back
out.

Where do you live and work that people achieve in life via
merit, not cheating, gaming the system, and backstabbing?
Can the rest of us move there?

;-)
it certainly doesn't work in sport does it?
ok so there are those (presumably) that have doped and not been caught,
doping in training regimes and so on.

Quoted message said:

Life bans are not the ultimate solution.

i dont' suppose they are.(sigh)
it might have an effect though.

Quoted message said:

4 year bans from the
Protour are more severe than doping suspensions used to be,
and riders still do it - because most of the time, they figure
they won't get caught. The way to reduce offenses is to make
the chance of getting caught much higher, not to make the
penalties super-sized.

to quote Pat McQuaid then, "300 tests were done on cyclists in the TdF and
one came out positive".
I'd say that's pretty emphatic.

Quoted message said:

Also, if you give life bans for every
infraction, federations will find way to let people off for minor
infractions.

fine, then adopt zero tolerance.

Quoted message said:

For ex, some guy gets caught with a bronchodilator
in his system and comes up with a BS excuse - the fed will
accept it to avoid suspending a guy for life for a drug that is
much less effective than (for example) EPO.

a good point maybe, i use steroid inhalers once in a while for asthma,
presumably that would leave me positive upon use and test but as i undersand
it is down to the athletes to declare such medications.
then there is the delgado fiasco.
i understand this problem is not easily solved but there are solutions that
must be tried before the sport becomes a farce in the eyes of the public (if
that is not the case already).

--

"sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No, the problem is that doping controls have no credibility.

i'm not sure that is true.

Quoted message said:

that recently, more people have been busted through investigation than
testing. Things like the illegal test of Lance's 1999 TdF samples,
"positive" tests for products that do not enhance performance, and a
lack of basic respect for the athletes don't help the matter. Attack the
system, not the athletes.

yes i daresay that there are flaws in the system.
so why is it that landis will lose his TdF crown?

--

Xavier Santiago Amarillo - Dentista said:

"sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No, the problem is that doping controls have no credibility.

Quoted message said:

i'm not sure that is true.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that recently, more people have been busted through investigation than
testing. Things like the illegal test of Lance's 1999 TdF samples,
"positive" tests for products that do not enhance performance, and a
lack of basic respect for the athletes don't help the matter. Attack the
system, not the athletes.

Quoted message said:

yes i daresay that there are flaws in the system.
so why is it that landis will lose his TdF crown?

Why is it that it hasn't been taken away from him already? Because there
are still questions. The positives don't make any sense and the
negatives that flank the positives don't make any sense.

Xavier Santiago Amarillo - Dentista said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

4 year bans from the
Protour are more severe than doping suspensions used to be,
and riders still do it - because most of the time, they figure
they won't get caught. The way to reduce offenses is to make
the chance of getting caught much higher, not to make the
penalties super-sized.

to quote Pat McQuaid then, "300 tests were done on cyclists in the TdF and
one came out positive".
I'd say that's pretty emphatic.

That's what McQuaid and Pound want you to think. How do you
tell the difference between a low percentage of dopers and a testing
program that is inffective and/or only catches people who are sloppy
or unlucky? There are quite a few people (Manzano, Millar, Gaumont
etc) who have testified to doping and not getting caught by tests.
Plus all the people who may or may not have been gassing up at the
Fuentes Station. The dope cops need something. maybe a better
strategy (law enforcement methods) or going after the suppliers,
or more out of competition tests. Or they need to give up the
Rumsfeld-Westmoreland pretense of making an announcement
that they've seen light at the end of the tunnel everytime they win
a minor skirmish.

"Xavier Santiago Amarillo - Dentista" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Got to be the ultimate solution. the Landis affair (along with the
"spanish
affair"😉 has made a mockery of cycle sport this year.

Let's start with Pena and Parra!