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Letter in Reading Evening Post

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UK and Europe
Published
21 October 2005
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24 October 2005
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Just zis Guy, you know?
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  1. A letter in the Reading Evening Post (editorial at
    reading-epost.co.uk):

    Having read the letter to your newspaper by Zak Boutell (Post,
    Wednesday October 12), I feel that this gentleman does not appreciate
    that without roads, and the vehicles that use them, he would not have
    many items that he undoubtedly owns.

    As a road user myself, form bicycles to heavy trucks, I would points
    out to him that the cyclists who he undoubtedly supports are the most
    frequent law breakers in terms of traffic offences.

    * They are allowed on roads without licenses, tests or tuition, age
    restrictions or experience.

    * Most have no rear-view aid.

    * They overtake on the inside of traffic.

    * They frequently go form pavement to road and back (via the nearest
    dropped kerb) with no regard for other road or pavement users.

    * They ignore traffic lights.

    * They hold races on the public highway.

    We all have a duty of care to each other, but we seem to have lost
    sight of the fact that when a moving object comes into contact with a
    human being, some pain will result no matter the speed involved, which
    is why roads were made for vehicles and pavements for pedestrians.

    I do agree with his point of alcohol levels, but on every other issue
    I believe he shuld really take a much more balanced view.

    F Reynolds

    -------------

    My reply (and yes I forgot to note that four of the six supposed
    "offences" are pefectly legal, and that bikes are vehicles, and that
    the roads are there partly due to the campaigning of CTC, and that
    probably the majority of roads in the UK by distance have no footway):

    Sir,

    I wonder if F Reynolds has any evidence to back his assertion that
    cyclists are "the most frequent law-breakers"? Or is this just
    another example of what TRL documented in their report 549, a motorist
    criticising cyclists regardless while justifying their own behaviour,
    consistent with the psychological targeting of an out group[1]? So
    much for a "balanced view"!

    It is undeniable that two of the problems mentioned, use of the
    pavement and running red lights, are *not* confined to cyclists. You
    are about 200 times as likely to be killed by a motor vehicle on the
    pavement as by a bike[2], and if you ask the council to name the
    leading cause of pavement damage they will tell you it is motor
    vehicles. Why else there are there bollards by the lights in Prospect
    Street? An RAC survey of red light jumping found one in ten car and
    one in five bus drivers ran red lights - and they didn't even bother
    to count those who went through in the first three seconds! Speeding
    is so widespread as to cause outrage at the very idea the law might be
    enforced at all, and this in turn accounts for a tiny minority of the
    five million traffic convictions last year, including 100,000 failed
    breath tests and nearly 200,000 offences of dangerous driving[3].

    It is also the case that in the vast majority of cyclist injury
    collisions[4], a motor driver is at fault. This compares with a ratio
    of about 50/50 for pedestrians.

    But I don't suggest that cyclists are blameless. In fact I'd go so
    far as to suggest that there is probably no group of vehicle users,
    powered or unpowered, that makes more than a minority of journeys
    without breaking at least one law. And the only reason pedestrians
    don't is because they are subject to so few laws! Face it, as a
    road-using nation we are a rabble.

    A couple of specific points:

    * Cyclists are not unusual in being able to use the road without
    license, test or age restrictions. The exception is actually drivers:
    everyone else uses the road by right, motor drivers alone are
    licensed, because the consequences of their crashes are much more
    severe. Motor vehicles account for 10% of hospitalised child injuries
    but half of fatalities, the largest cause of preventable child death
    in the UK.

    * Cyclists are indeed at greater risk on the pavement, mainly when
    crossing or rejoining the main carriageway. This is independent of
    whether the pavement is "shared use" (and we are bemused by the fact
    that on one road we are lambasted for riding on the pavement, while on
    another we are shouted at for not doing so!). Why do cyclists ride on
    the pavement? They are intimidated by the behaviour of motorists.

    * Cyclists need no rear view aid. We are not enclosed and have no
    noisy engines. Those who can't hear or look over their shoulders, buy
    mirrors. I used to park HGVs in a yard full of brand-new Porsches and
    Jaguars, I can use mirrors with the best of them, but I don't need one
    on my Brompton! Being hit from behind is rare in any case. Most
    cyclist injuries occur at junctions and roundabouts.

    * Overtaking on the inside of other traffic is indeed dangerous,
    crushing by left-turning goods vehicles is said to be the most common
    source of cyclist fatalities in London. If drivers keep well to the
    left to allow two-wheelers (pedal and motor) to pass, this dangerous
    behaviour will be deterred. A call to action for you there.

    * Cycle races on public roads are heavily regulated, just like car
    rallies on public roads, and massed starts are not allowed. Perhaps F
    Reynolds prefers the informal races between young lads in "hot
    hatches" which do so much to popularise "Police, Camera, Action" and
    occasionally give our hospitals and coroners some much-needed work?

    So: what about that balanced view? My car weighs two tonnes, can
    accelerate to lethal speeds in the blink of an eye and is capable of
    around 140mph - a tremendous potential to harm: energy is mass x
    velocity squared. Drivers like me (like us) kill over 3,000 people in
    the UK every year, and injure tens of thousands more - and the
    majority of drivers who kill and injure consider themselves safe
    drivers.

    I have absolutely no problem with the additional regulation imposed on
    me when driving.

    Equally, I am enthusiastically in favour of high quality cycle
    training. If the Post wants to press the council to facilitate adult
    cycle training to the new national standards administered by Cycling
    England they would be doing cyclists a real service. Perhaps
    attendance could even be made mandatory for those who commit offences.

    Now there's a campaign for you!

    [1] "A key finding which should be noted was that, when commenting on
    the scenarios it was usually the behaviour of the cyclist that was
    criticised – no matter how small the misdemeanour. Few links were made
    between the cyclist’s behaviour and any external influences that could
    be affecting their choice of behaviour; i.e. the respondents’ comments
    indicated that they thought the cyclist’s actions were inherent and
    dispositional behaviours. In contrast, the motorists’ misdemeanours
    were excused or justified in terms of the situational influences. As
    this tendency seemed to continue across the groups and the individual
    depth interviews and was unprompted, it is unlikely that group
    dynamics had any significant effect on this finding. [...] This aligns
    with the psychological prediction of targeting of members of an ‘out
    group’" - TRL report 549, 2003

    [2] Figures from Hansard and DfT for 1999-2002; of 186 fatalities on
    the footway one was caused by a cyclist the balance by motor drivers.
    Most years see between 60 and 100 pedestrian fatalities on the footway
    and about the same on crossings, of which in some rare years one might
    be due to a cyclist.

    [3] DfT Transport Statistics:
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/documents/divisionhomepage/037791.hcsp

    [4] between 67% (RoSPA) and 85% (Oxford study) motorist fault.

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

  2. Just zis Guy said:

    A letter in the Reading Evening Post (editorial at

    An outstandingly good letter but I suspect an ulterior motive.

    Quoted message said:

    I used to park HGVs in a yard full of brand-new Porsches and
    Jaguars, I can use mirrors with the best of them, but I don't need one
    on my Brompton!

    Did any know that Guy has a Brompton ?
    John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

  3. John_Kane <[email hidden]> whizzed past me shouting

    Quoted message said:


    An outstandingly good letter but I suspect an ulterior motive.

    Quoted message said:

    I used to park HGVs in a yard full of brand-new Porsches and
    Jaguars, I can use mirrors with the best of them, but I don't need one
    on my Brompton!

    Did any know that Guy has a Brompton ?

    Yeah, is there anyone else he hasn't shown it to?

    As a Reading resident, I feel a ride-to-rule phase coming on.
    In urban conditions if you keep to the rules you obstruct motor-thingies
    a lot more than if you don't. Consequently, you get more aggression
    from them if you keep to the law, though you feel smugger which partly
    makes up for it.

    BTW the purpose of traffic lights is to prevent motors from blocking
    each others' paths and causing gridlock - they aren't there for safety,
    and in particular they aren't there for our safety. And it shows!

    --
    Sue ];(🙂

    La liberté individuelle s’arrête là où commence celle des autres

  4. Just zis Guy said:

    Speeding
    is so widespread as to cause outrage at the very idea the law might be
    enforced at all, and this in turn accounts for a tiny minority of the
    five million traffic convictions last year, including 100,000 failed
    breath tests and nearly 200,000 offences of dangerous driving[3].

    I agree with the sentiment of the letter, and apologies if I've missed
    something, but I can't reconcile the figures you've quoted with those in
    Ref [3] (presumably
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/documents/page/dft_transstats_609914.pdf,
    or http://tinyurl.com/d7fdh if you prefer?)

    My understanding is that for the most recent year for which data is
    listed, 2003, speeding convictions accounted for over 42% of the 5M+
    offences. I'd hardly call that a 'tiny minority'.

    Also, 2003 figures for drunk, dangerous & "careless etc" driving total
    177k, which is less than your combined total of 300k for dangerous
    driving and failed breath tests.

    I'm not trying to pick holes, but it would be a shame to let a few
    ambiguities undermine your argument.

  5. Just zis Guy said:

    * Overtaking on the inside of other traffic is indeed dangerous,
    crushing by left-turning goods vehicles is said to be the most common
    source of cyclist fatalities in London. If drivers keep well to the
    left to allow two-wheelers (pedal and motor) to pass, this dangerous
    behaviour will be deterred. A call to action for you there.

    As a driver, I don't hug the crown of the road, and I don't run my nearside
    wheels in the gutter - I position myself in the middle of the lane. Why
    should drivers keep well to the left? Nobody is forcing cyclists to overtake
    on the inside - they are in control of the handlebars and pedals, and it is
    they who choose the routes that they take. The reason they duck up the
    inside is because it's quicker and more convenient for them - same reason
    motorcyclists weave between traffic queues.

    Isn't overtaking on the inside illegal in the majority of situations? How
    about squeezing between queues of traffic - effectively overtaking vehicles
    on the inside while occupying the same lane? Isn't that illegal?

    --
    Wally
    www.artbywally.com
    www.wally.myby.co.uk

  6. Wally said:

    Isn't overtaking on the inside illegal in the majority of situations? How
    about squeezing between queues of traffic - effectively overtaking vehicles
    on the inside while occupying the same lane? Isn't that illegal?

    Like Police motorcyclists do?

    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    - Stuart Millington ALL HTML e-mail rejected -
    - [email hidden] http://w3.z-add.co.uk/ -

  7. Wally said:
    Just zis Guy said:

    * Overtaking on the inside of other traffic is indeed dangerous,
    crushing by left-turning goods vehicles is said to be the most common
    source of cyclist fatalities in London. If drivers keep well to the
    left to allow two-wheelers (pedal and motor) to pass, this dangerous
    behaviour will be deterred. A call to action for you there.

    As a driver, I don't hug the crown of the road, and I don't run my nearside
    wheels in the gutter - I position myself in the middle of the lane. Why
    should drivers keep well to the left? Nobody is forcing cyclists to overtake
    on the inside - they are in control of the handlebars and pedals, and it is
    they who choose the routes that they take. The reason they duck up the
    inside is because it's quicker and more convenient for them - same reason
    motorcyclists weave between traffic queues.

    Isn't overtaking on the inside illegal in the majority of situations? How
    about squeezing between queues of traffic - effectively overtaking vehicles
    on the inside while occupying the same lane? Isn't that illegal?

    No, thats filtering, perfectly acceptable for motorbike and cyclists to do.

  8. Wally said:

    Isn't overtaking on the inside illegal in the majority of situations? How
    about squeezing between queues of traffic - effectively overtaking vehicles
    on the inside while occupying the same lane? Isn't that illegal?

    Only when the traffic is not slow moving or stationary; The two
    circumstances when cyclists are most likely to filter.

    I would rather not encourage drivers to promote best practice amongst
    cyclists as this gives them licence to propagate their ideas as to where
    cyclists should be.

    Jon

  9. Wally said:


    Isn't overtaking on the inside illegal in the majority of situations? How
    about squeezing between queues of traffic - effectively overtaking vehicles
    on the inside while occupying the same lane? Isn't that illegal?

    Maybe in your town but not in the rest of the UK. Maybe you should read
    a copy of Cyclecraft.

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon

  10. Mike Hibbert said:


    No, thats filtering, perfectly acceptable for motorbike and cyclists to
    do.


    Yes.
    However, I've recently been driving along the Embankment in London in the
    evenings.
    There is a tendency for motorcyclists to overtake long queues of traffic
    by driving outside the white lines, basically on the other side of the
    road. I have no problem giving them room - plenty of room on the road, and
    we should show mutual respect to all road users.
    However I must admit that this makes me uneasy - all it takes is for some
    idiot not to give way to the motorcyclist, or not see him in the dark
    (OK - that's difficult as they all have lights on).

  11. John Hearns said:
    Mike Hibbert said:

    No, thats filtering, perfectly acceptable for motorbike and cyclists to
    do.

    Yes.
    However, I've recently been driving along the Embankment in London in the
    evenings.
    There is a tendency for motorcyclists to overtake long queues of traffic
    by driving outside the white lines, basically on the other side of the
    road. I have no problem giving them room - plenty of room on the road, and
    we should show mutual respect to all road users.
    However I must admit that this makes me uneasy - all it takes is for some
    idiot not to give way to the motorcyclist, or not see him in the dark
    (OK - that's difficult as they all have lights on).

    You need very little room to squeeze in on a motorcycle. Without being
    there its hard to judge, its one of those things where what looks really
    dodgy to a car driver may be perfectly ok to the motorcyclist. Then
    again sometimes what looks stupid really is.

  12. Sue White said:

    John_Kane <[email hidden]> whizzed past me shouting

    Quoted message said:


    An outstandingly good letter but I suspect an ulterior motive.

    Quoted message said:

    I used to park HGVs in a yard full of brand-new Porsches and
    Jaguars, I can use mirrors with the best of them, but I don't need one
    on my Brompton!

    Did any know that Guy has a Brompton ?

    Yeah, is there anyone else he hasn't shown it to?

    As a Reading resident, I feel a ride-to-rule phase coming on.
    In urban conditions if you keep to the rules you obstruct motor-thingies
    a lot more than if you don't. Consequently, you get more aggression
    from them if you keep to the law, though you feel smugger which partly
    makes up for it.

    BTW the purpose of traffic lights is to prevent motors from blocking
    each others' paths and causing gridlock - they aren't there for safety,
    and in particular they aren't there for our safety. And it shows!

    Yes. I remember Gerry Wilde many years ago telling his class that
    traffic lights were not for safety and being very suprised.

    John Kane, Kingston ON, Canada

    Quoted message said:


    --
    Sue ];(🙂

    La liberté individuelle s'arrête là où commence celle des autres

  13. Wally said:

    Isn't overtaking on the inside illegal in the majority of situations?

    No, it's not. It's only illegal if i) the section of road specifically
    prohibits overtaking [1], or ii) it is done dangerously - in which case
    it's dangerous driving.

    Quoted message said:

    How
    about squeezing between queues of traffic - effectively overtaking vehicles
    on the inside while occupying the same lane? Isn't that illegal?

    Similarly, no.

    R.

    [1] eg within the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing. In all my years of
    cycling I've never had motorists overtake me on the zigzags of a
    pedestrian crossing, noooo....

  14. Richard said:

    [1] eg within the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing. In all my years of
    cycling I've never had motorists overtake me on the zigzags of a
    pedestrian crossing, noooo....

    Nope, it's only overtaking the lead vehicle that's not allowed.

    --

    TimP

  15. Quoted message said:
    Richard said:

    [1] eg within the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing. In all my years of
    cycling I've never had motorists overtake me on the zigzags of a
    pedestrian crossing, noooo....

    Nope, it's only overtaking the lead vehicle that's not allowed.

    It has happened to me.

    ...d

  16. Quoted message said:
    Richard said:

    [1] eg within the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing. In all my years of
    cycling I've never had motorists overtake me on the zigzags of a
    pedestrian crossing, noooo....

    Nope, it's only overtaking the lead vehicle that's not allowed.

    Huh??

    R.

  17. David Martin said:
    Quoted message said:
    Richard said:

    [1] eg within the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing. In all my years of
    cycling I've never had motorists overtake me on the zigzags of a
    pedestrian crossing, noooo....

    Nope, it's only overtaking the lead vehicle that's not allowed.

    It has happened to me.

    Yes, me too, but my point was that Richard's example was (partially)
    incorrect.

    --

    TimP

  18. Richard said:
    Quoted message said:
    Richard said:

    [1] eg within the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing. In all my years of
    cycling I've never had motorists overtake me on the zigzags of a
    pedestrian crossing, noooo....

    Nope, it's only overtaking the lead vehicle that's not allowed.

    Huh??

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/18.htm

    "You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the
    vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to
    pedestrians."

    --

    TimP

  19. On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:49:50 +0100, Sue White <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    the purpose of traffic lights is to prevent motors from blocking
    each others' paths and causing gridlock - they aren't there for safety,
    and in particular they aren't there for our safety. And it shows!

    An excellent point well put.

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

  20. On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:22:29 +0100, Russell Fulker
    <[email hidden]> said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    My understanding is that for the most recent year for which data is
    listed, 2003, speeding convictions accounted for over 42% of the 5M+
    offences. I'd hardly call that a 'tiny minority'.

    I'll read it again, I just grabbed the link. Last time I checked
    (last year) most offences were parking violations.

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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