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LeMond on doping

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15 April 2008
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19 April 2008
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garage sale GT
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  1. This may be old hat to those of you who have been into road biking since the early nineties.

    In the April '08 Scientific American, Greg LeMond is quoted as saying he thinks EPO made it into the TDF in 1991. He said he was the fittest he'd ever been but guys who never used to worry him before were dropping him right and left. In '92 he DNF'ed by burning out trying to keep up. It sure suggests you need to dope if you hope to compete because your opponents will and they probably won't be caught. Their heart may stop in the middle of the night but they won't be caught.

  2. garage sale GT said:

    This may be old hat to those of you who have been into road biking since the early nineties.

    In the April '08 Scientific American, Greg LeMond is quoted as saying he thinks EPO made it into the TDF in 1991. He said he was the fittest he'd ever been but guys who never used to worry him before were dropping him right and left. In '92 he DNF'ed by burning out trying to keep up. It sure suggests you need to dope if you hope to compete because your opponents will and they probably won't be caught. Their heart may stop in the middle of the night but they won't be caught.


    This is not exactly news. Pro cycling is a dopefest. The only people who get caught are stupid, made a mistake, or neglected to pay a bribe to the UCI.

  3. Garage Sale GT - you've been a member here almost two years and 1000 posts and you obviously haven't yet been in the GT forum here (unless I'm mistaken), despite your handle alluding to it... :p

    Come on down and meet the folks. Start in the FID ("This forum is dying" thread) and work your way out into the more serious threads. There's perhaps lots of information, misinformation and opinion down there that satisfies your curiosity on the extent of doping in the higher levels of the sport... 😎

  4. I was simply struck by the implication that for a long time, you simply needed to dope to be competitive. I didn't think they all did it.

  5. Oh God......

    Please please do not turn this forum into an equivalent of the GT forum where practically every thread is about doping.

  6. Yojimbo_ said:

    Oh God......

    Please please do not turn this forum into an equivalent of the GT forum where practically every thread is about doping.

    C'mon, it's one thread. It's just realisation starting to sink home to the wider world of what the truth is behind the denials and lies that have been going on for years. If a handful of guys were doing it, then the guys that were beating them weren't doing so by healthy living and early nights (or pedalling at a higher cadence. 🙂 )

  7. I enjoyed watching the 7-streak, as well as the bits from the past i've seen of the TDF. But because of all the politics, the 'revelation' every other day of another dope suspect/admission, and the [censored], I'll likely not watch another one. I'll miss Liggett, but I can just watch the DVD's of 1999-2004.

  8. Sure, a guy gets caught here and a guy gets caught there, but I found the statement shocking because it shows that you have needed to use life-threatening doping techniques just to stay in the TDF, and this has been the case since 1991. That's a lot different from Europeans and Americans trading catty comments about each others' heroes.

  9. garage sale GT said:

    Sure, a guy gets caught here and a guy gets caught there, but I found the statement shocking because it shows that you have needed to use life-threatening doping techniques just to stay in the TDF, and this has been the case since 1991. That's a lot different from Europeans and Americans trading catty comments about each others' heroes.

    This has been obvious for some time. Spend some time on line looking up articles about cyclists dieing in their sleep due to the problems with blood as thick as syrup. In amateur categories...

    And let us not even get started on the pros...

  10. garage sale GT said:

    Sure, a guy gets caught here and a guy gets caught there, but I found the statement shocking because it shows that you have needed to use life-threatening doping techniques just to stay in the TDF, and this has been the case since 1991. That's a lot different from Europeans and Americans trading catty comments about each others' heroes.

    Yeah. That must be it. Every single rider--and winner--since 1991 has had to use PEDs to be in the GTs and specifically the TdF. Wow. Who knew?
    🙄

    Thank the Gods that LeMond, the one with all the info, had the bravery to come forward. Now, if we can only get LeMond to address world peace and hunger, we'll all be able to live in harmony and in good health.

    Of course, it's obvious that LeMond never did any PEDs because why? Because he said so! See, it's different for him than it is for all those he reviled, the public suspected, and that beat him. They obviously lied, but not LeMond.

    Buy LeMond today: he's the gold standard in truth. Just ask him.

  11. Crankyfeet said:

    Garage Sale GT - you've been a member here almost two years and 1000 posts and you obviously haven't yet been in the GT forum here (unless I'm mistaken), despite your handle alluding to it... :p

    I only allude to an occasional "Grand Tour" of garage sales to see if anyone's got any cool old bikes!

  12. alienator said:

    Yeah. That must be it. Every single rider--and winner--since 1991 has had to use PEDs to be in the GTs and specifically the TdF. Wow. Who knew?
    🙄

    Thank the Gods that LeMond, the one with all the info, had the bravery to come forward. Now, if we can only get LeMond to address world peace and hunger, we'll all be able to live in harmony and in good health.

    Of course, it's obvious that LeMond never did any PEDs because why? Because he said so! See, it's different for him than it is for all those he reviled, the public suspected, and that beat him. They obviously lied, but not LeMond.

    Buy LeMond today: he's the gold standard in truth. Just ask him.

    Thank you for informing me that we are discussing one man's opinion. I am glad you are here.

    He did make a fairly credible claim based on a quantum jump in the performance of competitors. You could say it was his job to know. And yes, he could be lying about his own use.

    Yup, LeMond could have been doping too, and that proves that you have NOT needed EPO to compete.....?????

    These guys are right, this issue is well worn. You just mention it and people post as a reflex, without even thinking.

  13. garage sale GT said:

    Thank you for informing me that we are discussing one man's opinion. I am glad you are here.

    He did make a fairly credible claim based on a quantum jump in the performance of competitors. You could say it was his job to know. And yes, he could be lying about his own use.

    Do you propose to defeat my thesis that doping is a necessity by pointing out that LeMond might have been using it too?

    What thesis? You've only got supposition. All you can have is supposition. The statistics, though, say it's patently stupid to say that everyone had to be doing it to stay in the race. Completely stupid.

    Credible claim? Yeah, how so? Is LeMond a physiology/human performance expert? Where did he get his degree? Where did he do his research, and it what publications did he publish his "theses?"

    Where exactly is the "proof" that you needed PEDs to compete? Please, no conjecture. Proof is fact, so please, stick to the facts. Doh! I forgot: you don't have facts.

    I find all these "theses" to be statements more about how hens just need rumor, innuendo, and ankle biting to get through the day than they are about anything to do with doping issues.

    LeMond is an angry, resentful, bitter turd that couldn't even gather the intellectual faculties to understand his obligations in a business agreement. So given the clear limits on what LeMond "knows" or "understands," is there any reason to even think what he says is true? Moreover, given the standard by which you hens judge guilt--i.e., you only require that someone allege something; that someone you dislike wins; that someone deny they dope(d) or that some performance goes beyond the feeble limits of your intellectual universe--LeMond must be guilty of doping because he denies ever doping.

    Thesis my ass. When did a conjecture [censored] ever come up with a thesis, eh? Christ, it was people like you folks conducting witch trials a few hundred years ago.

  14. Alienator: "Hmmmm...it's not proof we're discussing here, it's a claim from someone in the know about the scope of the problem. I guess my mind's blown."

  15. garage sale GT said:

    Alienator: "Hmmmm...it's not proof we're discussing here, it's a claim from someone in the know about the scope of the problem. I guess my mind's blown."

    So, what is it, exactly, that LeMond is in the know about, eh? Where are his facts, eh? Are the facts supposed to be that since he stopped being competitive, every single other rider was doping? Were the facts that since LeMond suspected doping, everyone since those suspicions germinated has been doping?

    Yeah, he really knows the scope.

    🙄

  16. We got it. You don't want to talk about it if it's not proof. You covered that before. The subtle difference between likelihood and proof is not lost on us.

  17. garage sale GT said:

    We got it. You don't want to talk about it if it's not proof. You covered that before. The subtle difference between likelihood and proof is not lost on us.

    Oh, so now it's all about likelihood, eh? How are you figuring your likelihood? Hmm? I guess that "likelihood" is good enough to hang a few riders, eh? Woohoo! Let the witch hunt begin. The Master of Ceremonies can be that beacon of truth and god to the unwashed masses, as well as legend unto himself, Greg Lemond.

    Wow. Likelihood. That's gonna fix all the problems.

    Was likelihood what your edited post about Riis was all about? Eh? Where did that go?

    Now, why don't you and your cabal make up a list of people to point fingers at so that we they can be burned at the stake. After all, it's understood that your suspicions need to be satiated.

    Who knew that LeMond was the likelihood expert, that he was the suspicion missing link. Man! What a valuable guy! He rocks! You guys rock!

  18. Is it that time of the month for you make-enemy-enator... or have you just got a huge pile of assignments to mark this weekend?... 🙄 😄

    You're so easy. Spouting off about people making factually baseless statements while you make factually baseless judgments about LeMond's character. Only a nincompoop would continually contradict his own argument in the course of making it... :p

  19. Alienator:

    You caught every post before I even edited it but answered them with an irrational rant.

    That, combined with your clear upset regarding suspicion of substance abuse, likelihoods, witch hunts, etc. suggests you are intoxicated in front of your computer.

    Perhaps artificially overstimulated to get through grading a large stack of papers? Perhaps your colleagues suspect?

    I think it is a likelihood, but that's just one man's opinion.

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