LeMond on Contador

Quoted message said:

LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you

have

Quoted message said:

to implicate other riders, too.

"You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
"Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a

reference

Quoted message said:

to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour

de

Quoted message said:

France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.

"Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
doping scandal that rocked Spain.

"I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."

LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it

didn't

Quoted message said:

name a champion this year.

"I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
--------

I would name Greg LeMond as the virtual champion of 2007 Tour.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."

"The fact that I am pointing my finger directly at Contador should in
no way be construed as me pointing fingers at Contador."

Lemond is the fingering champion, for sure.

On Jul 26, 7:23 pm, "JC" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
name a champion this year.

"I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.

That jackass seriously needs to shut up.

After he wasn't able to win anymore, he'd like it better if no one
else could either.

So lame. I have nothing but contempt for him.

JC said:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html

Quoted message said:

-------
LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
to implicate other riders, too.

Quoted message said:

"You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
"Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.

Quoted message said:

"Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
doping scandal that rocked Spain.

Quoted message said:

"I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."

Quoted message said:

LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
name a champion this year.

Quoted message said:

"I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
--------

My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
and Mazano's are the only heros.

We still have an all dirty podium:

Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
as his personal adviser.

Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.

Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
and steared clear.

Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

JC said:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
-------
LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
to implicate other riders, too.
"You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
"Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
"Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
doping scandal that rocked Spain.
"I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
name a champion this year.
"I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
--------

My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
and Mazano's are the only heros.

We still have an all dirty podium:

Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
as his personal adviser.

Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.

Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
and steared clear.

Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!
Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>,

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari

Who says Evans is?

--
Shane Stanley

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
and steared clear.

If they had done that then Rasmussen never would have started. In
an era where riders are banned on suspicion that isn't a viable
strategy.

Bob Schwartz

Bill C said:

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!

What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
Michele Ferrari?

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Bill C said:

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

JC said:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
-------
LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
to implicate other riders, too.
"You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
"Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
"Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
doping scandal that rocked Spain.
"I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
name a champion this year.
"I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
--------

Quoted message said:

My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
and Mazano's are the only heros.

Quoted message said:

We still have an all dirty podium:

Quoted message said:

Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
as his personal adviser.

Quoted message said:

Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.

Quoted message said:

Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
and steared clear.

Quoted message said:

Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.

Quoted message said:

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Quoted message said:

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!
Bill C- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bill

You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.

You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
flames arn't visible from the outside.

Quoted message said:

You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.

You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.

I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
passtime.

--
E. Dronkert

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!

I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.

Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!

I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.

Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.

It's quite obvious.

After a lead shot he was slowly lowering his metal habit with Iron. At
the end he probably used copper ^^

Do I get a price?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!

I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
that
year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.

Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.

It's quite obvious.

After a lead shot he was slowly lowering his metal habit with Iron. At
the end he probably used copper ^^

Do I get a price?

Maybe there's something mysterious about metal that we don't know about.
-tom

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.

Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.

At the time doping wasn't even on my radar and it still sounded
extremely odd.

The way he cries I'm sure he's a woman - maybe he was menstruating
heavily and lost a lot of blood.

R

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!

I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
that year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an
"iron deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.

Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.

It's quite possible his doctor gave him epo. But if he did, so what? In 1989
it was not yet on the list of banned substances, and by almost all doctors
only seen as a very effective medicine for patients suffering from aneamia.
Anyhow, according to dr. Jeanne-Pierre de Modenard, probably world's
greatest expert in the field of the history of doping, writer of six
extremel;y informative books on the subject, and owner of an incredible rich
archive, declared a few days ago that he is convinced that Greg Lemond is
the only TdF-winner after the war who never deliberately used doping.

Benjo

anton2468 said:

You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.

You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
flames arn't visible from the outside.

Good on you, lets see some more rightous indignation. You rightous
crusaders are doing wonders for the rbr July hit count. Keep it up, and
just to give you some ammunition I'll let you in on a secret. We all know
they dope and we don't really care, its not cheating if everybodies doing
it.

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Quoted message said:

You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.

You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.

I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
passtime.

Wow. I nominate you for cycling saint of the year: "I am high on
life; this petty squabbling is beneath me."

What self righteous, self-important hogwash.

Did it ever occur to you that all the Master Fatties, the clubbies and
the Cat 4's and below in this world get the same satisfaction as you.
Even me.

But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
Then you would have to decide just how above it all you really were.
Would you still stay above the fray? Would you get on your Greg
Lemond soapbox and excoriate the dopers? Or would you risk your own
health and join the club?

Somehow I doubt you've ever had to face making such a decision.

The cycling "witch hunt" makes page 10 of the newspapers in USA. On
page 1 is Barry Bonds, professional baseball and steroids. Page 2 is
American football. Page 3 is steroids and the PGA. Page 4 is doping
and the Olympics. Etc. Then there's European football. Etc.

The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
money, the following, the actual importance in people's lives, even if
they are "mere diversions." Clean athletes are important on many
levels. Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?

Sorry dude. Your "I'm above it all and the cure is worse than the
disease" is an unrealistic, out of touch attitude.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Bill C said:

Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!

What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
Michele Ferrari?

Now you're in "Bargaining." Still got Depression and Acceptance to go.

Quoted message said:

Wow. I nominate you for cycling saint of the year: "I am high on
life; this petty squabbling is beneath me."

What self righteous, self-important hogwash.

Did it ever occur to you that all the Master Fatties, the clubbies and
the Cat 4's and below in this world get the same satisfaction as you.
Even me.

But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
Then you would have to decide just how above it all you really were.
Would you still stay above the fray? Would you get on your Greg
Lemond soapbox and excoriate the dopers? Or would you risk your own
health and join the club?

Somehow I doubt you've ever had to face making such a decision.

The cycling "witch hunt" makes page 10 of the newspapers in USA. On
page 1 is Barry Bonds, professional baseball and steroids. Page 2 is
American football. Page 3 is steroids and the PGA. Page 4 is doping
and the Olympics. Etc. Then there's European football. Etc.

The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
money, the following, the actual importance in people's lives, even if
they are "mere diversions." Clean athletes are important on many
levels. Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?

Sorry dude. Your "I'm above it all and the cure is worse than the
disease" is an unrealistic, out of touch attitude.

You got all that out of these two paragraphs?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.

I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
passtime.

When I was a lowly Cat-2, racing with Cat 1 & Pros, doping was there in the
background. People knew of it, but, I dunno why, it just didn't matter. It
was a choice that others made to cheat, although I don't think some of us
even saw it as cheating per se. It was more like an extension of the
recreational drug usage so popular at the time (mid-70s). Did I have less
chance of winning because I didn't dope? I never thought of it that way.
Factually, it *may* have been true, but I believed then, and still believe
now, my biggest obstacle to my own success was found in the mirror. I
thought then, and still believe now, that you can win without doping. It may
not be as easy, and you may have to work a lot harder.

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't go after those doping. I'm just saying that
it doesn't have to kill the sport for the rest of us, whether we're
spectators or Masters Fatties or whatever.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA