Leipheimer robbed?!

[email hidden] a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Sorry if this is a rehash: I searched before posting and found no
discussion of this.

In the final TdF stage on Sunday, Vino was 2 secs behind Levi. An
early intermediate sprint brought them even (tho it turns out Levi was
.77 secs ahead due to TT sums in earlier stages). The judges froze the
GC due to weather shortly thereafter, and Levi could rightly have
assumed he had 5th. Then Vino (brilliantly) won the stage and received
the 20 sec time bonus to move into 5th ahead of Levi.

Hunh?? How can you freeze and then unfreeze the GC? I can find
nothing about this in the press... it seems the judges changed the
rules after the stage. Had Levi known the GC was still up-for-grabs,
he might have been on Vino's wheel in the last 2km. Doesn't seem fair.

Right, it isn't fair. My conjecture is that the referees wanted to
cancel the final time bonusses, but there was no way they could do it
without also cancelling the final points bonusses. Since they wanted to
preserve the points competition, which would decide who would win the
Green Jersey, they had to keep it, and so had to keep the final time
bonus.

The problem is that they failed to inform the racers. By the way, Levi
would have lost his place even on Vino's wheel. Add to this, that Levi
should have tried to be there anyway, independent of the rules. The
fact that he wasn't proves that he deserved what happened.

-ilan

-ilan

Quoted message said:

Right, it isn't fair. My conjecture is that the referees wanted to
cancel the final time bonusses, but there was no way they could do it
without also cancelling the final points bonusses. Since they wanted to
preserve the points competition, which would decide who would win the
Green Jersey, they had to keep it, and so had to keep the final time
bonus.

The problem is that they failed to inform the racers. By the way, Levi
would have lost his place even on Vino's wheel. Add to this, that Levi
should have tried to be there anyway, independent of the rules. The
fact that he wasn't proves that he deserved what happened.

-ilan

Quoted message said:

From his comments, Levi seemed to know that he needed to stay with

Vino but couldn't:

http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/news/articles/8616.0.html

LEVI LEIPHEIMER
"It was a very difficult sprint. It was 2 kilometers uphill. He (Vino)
went big. We had to accelerate to get on the wheel. He let off a
little bit, went again. He basically dropped my teammates, and I was
the only one left on the wheel. He was smart enough to go 90 percen
and then he gave it everything, and I tried to come around but there
was just no way. He was too powerful for me....I still had the same
strategy, to defend. But we were coming into Paris and there were
many crashes and it was very dangerous. I heard on the radio that
the jury had made the decision to take the time on the first line,
and tehre were no more bonuses. It's a little bit confusing, so I
tried to stay near him as much as possible. With half a lap to go
it was all together, all the sprinters teams were there, it was crazy.
Chaos. I lost the wheel. And I thought, if he gets top three now, and
gets the bonus, its pretty amazing. And that's what happened."

WhyTF did they freeze the GC? Because it was raining? That just
doesn't make any sense to freeze something like that, especially when
top-ten gc stadings are being contested.

Thanks for the excerpt. In my opinion, a GC contender should
be able to stay at the front of the race in the last kilometers.
If he can't then he is liable to crash out, as has happened in
the past to Lepheimer.

Note that in the first TdF road stage in 1993, there was a split
and 30 riders were off the front in the last kilometers and
among those riders was Lance Armstrong in his first Tour.

-ilan

Mike Bruno a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right, it isn't fair. My conjecture is that the referees wanted to
cancel the final time bonusses, but there was no way they could do it
without also cancelling the final points bonusses. Since they wanted to
preserve the points competition, which would decide who would win the
Green Jersey, they had to keep it, and so had to keep the final time
bonus.

The problem is that they failed to inform the racers. By the way, Levi
would have lost his place even on Vino's wheel. Add to this, that Levi
should have tried to be there anyway, independent of the rules. The
fact that he wasn't proves that he deserved what happened.

-ilan

Quoted message said:

From his comments, Levi seemed to know that he needed to stay with

Vino but couldn't:

http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/news/articles/8616.0.html

LEVI LEIPHEIMER
"It was a very difficult sprint. It was 2 kilometers uphill. He (Vino)
went big. We had to accelerate to get on the wheel. He let off a
little bit, went again. He basically dropped my teammates, and I was
the only one left on the wheel. He was smart enough to go 90 percen
and then he gave it everything, and I tried to come around but there
was just no way. He was too powerful for me....I still had the same
strategy, to defend. But we were coming into Paris and there were
many crashes and it was very dangerous. I heard on the radio that
the jury had made the decision to take the time on the first line,
and tehre were no more bonuses. It's a little bit confusing, so I
tried to stay near him as much as possible. With half a lap to go
it was all together, all the sprinters teams were there, it was crazy.
Chaos. I lost the wheel. And I thought, if he gets top three now, and
gets the bonus, its pretty amazing. And that's what happened."

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if this is a rehash: I searched before posting and found no
discussion of this.

Dumbass -

Look harder. Try the thread: 'Did Vino Know?'

Gerolsteiner screwed the pooch.

I thought this was about Odessa spending his money.

RVD

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum
in the thread: Did Vino Know?

To make the fat story thin.

If you want something really bad, you go and get it,
don't wait to be hand it to you.

Btw, your quote answered your question:
"Had Levi known the GC was still up-for-grabs,
he might have been on Vino's wheel in the last 2km."
Yep, he would've stayed on Vino's wheel.
Is it fair now?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if this is a rehash: I searched before posting and found no
discussion of this.

In the final TdF stage on Sunday, Vino was 2 secs behind Levi. An
early intermediate sprint brought them even (tho it turns out Levi was
.77 secs ahead due to TT sums in earlier stages). The judges froze the
GC due to weather shortly thereafter, and Levi could rightly have
assumed he had 5th. Then Vino (brilliantly) won the stage and received
the 20 sec time bonus to move into 5th ahead of Levi.

Hunh?? How can you freeze and then unfreeze the GC? I can find
nothing about this in the press... it seems the judges changed the
rules after the stage. Had Levi known the GC was still up-for-grabs,
he might have been on Vino's wheel in the last 2km. Doesn't seem fair.

john//

AS far as fair or not fair, it's kinda like NASCAR or probably any
other kind of racing: trying to do a trade-off between being safe,
being fair, and being competitive. Can't have all 3, apparently, so
whoever favors one over the other two is going to be bummed out.

The fact that Vino led him out for 2 km and neither Leipheimer or any of hi
s3 team mates could come off his wheel and pass him shows that Levi is a
soft *^$#*^ and didn't deserve 5th place!
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if this is a rehash: I searched before posting and found no
discussion of this.

In the final TdF stage on Sunday, Vino was 2 secs behind Levi. An
early intermediate sprint brought them even (tho it turns out Levi was
.77 secs ahead due to TT sums in earlier stages). The judges froze the
GC due to weather shortly thereafter, and Levi could rightly have
assumed he had 5th. Then Vino (brilliantly) won the stage and received
the 20 sec time bonus to move into 5th ahead of Levi.

Hunh?? How can you freeze and then unfreeze the GC? I can find
nothing about this in the press... it seems the judges changed the
rules after the stage. Had Levi known the GC was still up-for-grabs,
he might have been on Vino's wheel in the last 2km. Doesn't seem fair.

john//

Hey, Vino went for the line and Levi took it easy. Vino wins as he should.

Ken

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry if this is a rehash: I searched before posting and found no
discussion of this.

In the final TdF stage on Sunday, Vino was 2 secs behind Levi. An
early intermediate sprint brought them even (tho it turns out Levi was
.77 secs ahead due to TT sums in earlier stages). The judges froze the
GC due to weather shortly thereafter, and Levi could rightly have
assumed he had 5th. Then Vino (brilliantly) won the stage and received
the 20 sec time bonus to move into 5th ahead of Levi.

Hunh?? How can you freeze and then unfreeze the GC? I can find
nothing about this in the press... it seems the judges changed the
rules after the stage. Had Levi known the GC was still up-for-grabs,
he might have been on Vino's wheel in the last 2km. Doesn't seem fair.

john//

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Thanks for the excerpt. In my opinion, a GC contender should
be able to stay at the front of the race in the last kilometers.
If he can't then he is liable to crash out, as has happened in
the past to Lepheimer.

You have to admit that Vino deserved it. And Levi should, as you pointed
out - stayed on Vino's wheel at the very least.

But I think it was better for Levi to say away from the sprinter's insanity
and lose a couple of seconds.

In the end it wouldn't have made any difference anyway. Levi was better off
back in the pack and Vino wasn't to be denied.

What should the judges have done? Not rewarded Vino for the first solo
victory in Paris in decades?

Tom Kunich said:

What should the judges have done? Not rewarded Vino for the first solo
victory in Paris in decades?

Dumbass -

The last solo victory on the Champs was Konyshev in 1991 and the year
before that Eddy Seigneur was also solo.

Fourteen years isn't exactly "decades".

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

IMKen said:

Hey, Vino went for the line and Levi took it easy. Vino wins as he should.

Damn, imagine how confused people would have been if Levi had sprinted
against Vino.

"Hey - did that guy win the race?"
"No, he was sprinting for 5th/6th place."

IMKen said:

Hey, Vino went for the line and Levi took it easy. Vino wins as he should.

Ullrich told Leipheimer that Vino was only attacking for the stage win,
that he would stop afterwards. That explains it.

Jenko

in 476957 20050728 032243 'Tom Kunich said:

What should the judges have done? Not rewarded Vino for the first solo
victory in Paris in decades?

How do you define a solo win? - Vino had the same time as 2nd and 3rd (and 40 others).

Mike Cox said:

Gerolsteiner screwed the pooch.

Odessa is a [censored] ?

Kurgan Gringioni a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

What should the judges have done? Not rewarded Vino for the first solo
victory in Paris in decades?

Dumbass -

The last solo victory on the Champs was Konyshev in 1991 and the year
before that Eddy Seigneur was also solo.

Fourteen years isn't exactly "decades".

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Dumbass! Konyshev won when Abdujaparov crashed, not a solo win. Eddy
Seigneur was 1994, after being in a break with Andreu, etc. The last
true solo win on the Champs was Lemond in 1989.

-ilan

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dumbass! Konyshev won when Abdujaparov crashed, not a solo win. Eddy
Seigneur was 1994, after being in a break with Andreu, etc. The last
true solo win on the Champs was Lemond in 1989.

Quoted message said:

-ilan

lemond's win was a time-trial win, that's the opposite of a true
solo win, which by the way means that the rider beats the
peloton and the green-jersey-competition sprinters by a
time separation, in the case of vino, just few seconds.

voila garcon

Vino knew he had the right stuff.