Leipheimer doping

Bro Deal said:

Considering that those three riders each have two GT victories and Leipheimer has zero, I am skeptical. Being the one guy who targets small stage races because he cannot win the big ones does not a great GC man make. 🙂

if you wanna weight them, the others have him beat.

thunder said:

if you wanna weight them, the others have him beat.

It seems to me that Leipheimer has profited by the lack of respect other riders show the smaller stage races. The riders who think they have a shot at winning the big ones are not that interested in anything else except as a training race or a test of form. He has been fairly consistent, but so was Mancebo; and I'm not ready to put Mancebo in the pantheon.

If Tommy D. could ever get healthy, he might be advised to take the Leipheimer approach and target small stage races.

TheDarkLord said:

I haven't followed pro-cycling long enough and you're much more knowledgeable. But what do you think about his last Tour TT? Is it possible for him to have given that performance without being doped? Or were there other riders who you would have expected to have performed better than him?

Looking at his TDF performance, 2006 was a really tough year for his ITTs. Was that the one where the flu took him down a few pegs? Honestly!

His 2005 TDF ITTs were good.

Again, I still recall just being blown away by his 2007 performance to the point where it just seemed too good all year.

hawkeye87 said:

Looking at his TDF performance, 2006 was a really tough year for his ITTs. Was that the one where the flu took him down a few pegs? Honestly!

His 2005 TDF ITTs were good.

Again, I still recall just being blown away by his 2007 performance to the point where it just seemed too good all year.

that was the story on his tt, he had the flu.

Funny thing is, all you heard from Gerolsteiner was their disappointment.

They were not sympathetic if he was sick. Strangley enough he was there abouts two stages later on the first mtn stage. Go figure, nearly neading hospitalisation with pneumonia.

Then in 2005, Vino kicked his [censored] in the final stage. Now Disco were so good because they got their recovery dope, whether thn just testo, or insulin, or the supercharged EPO, aranesp, dynepo and blood transfusions.

hawkeye87 said:

Looking at his TDF performance, 2006 was a really tough year for his ITTs. Was that the one where the flu took him down a few pegs? Honestly!

He caught the same flu that the whole Disco team caught that year. It totally destroyed Hincapie's chances of winning the TdF. 🙄

thunder said:

yeah, he showed he could tt at the 2001 Vuelta, and the worlds after it.

Off memory, two 3rd's or perhaps two seconds in the tts at the vuelta. I think that year there were an unprecedented 4tts. Prologue, mtn, and two medium-longs.

He then finished either 3rd or 4th in the worlds.

He has always been strong at the dauphine over about 10kms. And then the long Dauphine tt.

The guy can tt.

The thing is, can he tt so well because of his o2 capacity that is artificially inflated.

Second question, can he tt better than others on dope, because he has a more comprehensive and expert program, and gets better o2 vector delivery.

hmmm, moot speculation.

the guy can tt. NEver shown it in the Tour tho.

In his defense, Armstrong, Ullrich, et all, were always in the Tour. Take out Vino, got a clean Millar, CSC no longer using recovery products... take Basso, take Landis.

Not unsurprising he won the last tt.

Sastre and Moreau beat him (he came like 13th) in the 2005 TdF final ITT. 2006 of course he was SICK (6 minutes behind Gonchar in both ITT's). 2004 he was again 3-4mins off Lance in around 13-14th place.

Eldrack - So we got fast cadence for Lance... and now at 35, after 11 years as a pro, Bruyneel teaches Levi how to hug his elbows together... 🙄

The rediculous spin these guys come out with to explain sudden performance increases is only surpassed by the gullibility of a willing fan base.

And name one instance where Levi has made a public stand against doping. He can't do it because he cares about his reputation in the peloton, and he knows they would all disrespect him for lying. Just stay quiet or evade the question. Omerta rule number one.

Frigo's Luggage said:

I can confirm he won the US Crit Championships. nl.newsbank.comArchivesOpen ↗Don't know about the disqualification.

Here say Matt Johnson won 1996 Senior Men's National Criterium Championship. Levi disqualified?
bicycletrader.com18articles.htmlOpen ↗

Some say Levi positive for asthma medicine in 1996.

He race for Nutra Fig in Tour of China November 1996. cyclingnews.comtoc.htmlOpen ↗

Crankyfeet said:

Sastre and Moreau beat him (he came like 13th) in the 2005 TdF final ITT. 2006 of course he was SICK (6 minutes behind Gonchar in both ITT's). 2004 he was again 3-4mins off Lance in around 13-14th place.

Eldrack - So we got fast cadence for Lance... and now at 35, after 11 years as a pro, Bruyneel teaches Levi how to hug his elbows together... 🙄

The rediculous spin these guys come out with to explain sudden performance increases is only surpassed by the gullibility of a willing fan base.

And name one instance where Levi has made a public stand against doping. He can't do it because he cares about his reputation in the peloton, and he knows they would all disrespect him for lying. Just stay quiet or evade the question. Omerta rule number one.

you gotta be careful, it did seem as tho it came from nowhere, but, he did have results in 2001 and a fair few in the proceeding years. The win in the Dauphine GC was built on the back of a tt win, or he came seconds.

Lots of good tters have left the peloton. Where was Gonchar, where was Ullrich, Armstrong, Landis, Basso, Vinokourov.

All would have likely kicked his [censored] by a minute. So you need to reconfigure your baseline.

I agree, it was BS, but we have to try and bring all the information to the surface, not just the stuff that suits the popular opinion on CF.

Ofcourse, the popular opinion on the Paceline would be different, but they probably could not real off his wins like 99 Tour de Beuce tt etc, where he won quite a few domestic tts. Might have won a Sea Otter tt also.

thunder said:

Lots of good tters have left the peloton. Where was Gonchar, where was Ullrich, Armstrong, Landis, Basso, Vinokourov.

Wow... that reads like Team Blood Bag... 😄

Point taken though.

What about Contador's ride in the final TT '07? Was it just the tailwind on an A-B course that saved him? Or can the guy TT?

Quoted post said:

What about Contador's ride in the final TT '07? Was it just the tailwind on an A-B course that saved him? Or can the guy TT?

Contador TT's pretty well but not one of the gun TTer's

Here is a comparo of Leipheimers TT times for the last 3 TDF's
I've added Evans & Popovch's times in for comparison since they also did the last 3 TDF's

TDF 07
st13 :- 54km
Evans 1:07:48
Popovych 1:08:50
Contador 1:08:52
Leipheimer 1:09:13

st19 :- 55km
Leipheimer 1:02:44
Evans 1:03:35
Popovych 1:04:45
Contador 1:05:02

TDF 06
st7 :- 52km
Evans 1:03:32
Popovych 1:04:59
Leipheimer 1:07:48

st19 :- 57km
Evans 1:11:26
Popovych 1:12:43
Leipheimer 1:13:47

TDF 05
st1 :- 19km
Leipheimer 0:22:04
Popovych 0:22:09
Evans 0:22:32

st20 :- 55km
Evans 1:13:52
Popovych 1:14:55
Leipheimer 1:14:59

In summary, Leipheimer has only ever beaten Evans and Popovych twice.
One was the shorter 19km prologue TT in 05 the other his "phenomenal performance" (as Paul Sherwin kept saying on the TV coverage)
Otherwise Evans beat Leipheimer by 2mins or more in nearly every TT, likewise Popovych always had a little time up his sleeve over Leipheimer.

Leipheimer was sick in the 06 TT?? was that the case for both TT's?
10 days between the 2 and he got belted in both of them.
His results looked reasonable in the mountains stages just prior.

Crankyfeet said:

Wow... that reads like Team Blood Bag... 😄

Point taken though.

What about Contador's ride in the final TT '07? Was it just the tailwind on an A-B course that saved him? Or can the guy TT?

contador an u23 Spanish tt champ as an 18yo.

top flight prologue rider, needs some more years to be top flight as a pro, in the long tt in the Tour.

I heard a very interesting interview with Ger Hartmann.

For those of you who do not know who Ger Hartmann is - Ger is the most sought after sports physiotherapist in the world.
Athletes like Paula Radcliffe, Wilson kipketer, Sonia O Sullivan, Steve Redgrave, Matthew Pinsent, the US 2004 Olympic team, all availed of Ger's expertise.

On radio here yesterday, the subject of sport quickly turned to doping in sport and Hartmann said that the war on doping had thrown up some very interesting research material.
He said that, from speaking with several researchers, that it was their conclusion, based on the most recent eveidence, that the benefits of the use
of EPO/HGH are now believed to last a lot longer than had been previously thought.
He said that the latest research says that athletes can benefit from EPO/HGH usage for up to two years after they start using it.
Very interesting stuff.

limerickman said:

I heard a very interesting interview with Ger Hartmann.

For those of you who do not know who Ger Hartmann is - Ger is the most sought after sports physiotherapist in the world.
Athletes like Paula Radcliffe, Wilson kipketer, Sonia O Sullivan, Steve Redgrave, Matthew Pinsent, the US 2004 Olympic team, all availed of Ger's expertise.

On radio here yesterday, the subject of sport quickly turned to doping in sport and Hartmann said that the war on doping had thrown up some very interesting research material.
He said that, from speaking with several researchers, that it was their conclusion, based on the most recent eveidence, that the benefits of the use
of EPO/HGH are now believed to last a lot longer than had been previously thought.
He said that the latest research says that athletes can benefit from EPO/HGH usage for up to two years after they start using it.
Very interesting stuff.

Millar is still doped!

in all seriousness, you could expect athletes to reach new levels after their body has pressed thru plateaus previously unattainable because of EPO etc.

Bro Deal said:

He caught the same flu that the whole Disco team caught that year. It totally destroyed Hincapie's chances of winning the TdF. 🙄

😄 LOL!

I still remember thinking, "you have to be kidding me" when Bobke and the rest of the Versus squad were picking George as the next heir apparent. I know the favorites were sidelined, but George was a lieutenant, not a general.

I know I'm in the minority on this one, and surprisingly given my view of Discatana, I think that Leipheimer is (relatively) clean.

I still don't understand why he joined the team, but I don't think he's doing the full regimen.

earth_dweller said:

I know I'm in the minority on this one, and surprisingly given my view of Discatana, I think that Leipheimer is (relatively) clean.

I still don't understand why he joined the team, but I don't think he's doing the full regimen.

Look... if we're going to use spurious subjective evidence to state that he is chock full of chemicals and syruped blood, you can't just turnaround and use those same methods to say he's mildly doping... 😕 . That's just random... 😄

Crankyfeet said:

Look... if we're going to use spurious subjective evidence to state that he is chock full of chemicals and syruped blood, you can't just turnaround and use those same methods to say he's mildly doping... 😕 . That's just random... 😄

Yeah I know.... he has been working with Testa for years, who is reputed for being clean.

earth_dweller said:

Yeah I know.... he has been working with Testa for years, who is reputed for being clean.

I think there are very few pros that have a hard and fast rule to never use any PED. That's not a moral judgment on them, I think it is just the nature of the business. Of course, this is all supposition. But Jaksche's account of changing to different teams, and part of the reason was to see what the new team's medical program could do to improve the rider's performance, seemed to fit with human psychology and the evidence. The look on Levi's face last year after his TdF stage win and podium GC finish was like euphoria that he had been blessed by the Disco/USPS PED Program. Of course he could have just been happy that he did well... 🙄 , but that doesn't fit with my thesis... 😄

I'm not surprised he followed him to Astana.

Leipheimer nice guy…

Nice guys not ride risky bull......

nice guy not chancing?

Think like this!.... No 60kg tter his level ever was dope free proven with history yet…

Marco? Hamilton? Di Luca? Leipheimer?

Hellow?

Ciao

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