Leipheimer

doctorSpoc said:

isn't CSC is a Danish company, headquartered in Denmark... ?

A part of it is but it is a multinational company really and you could say it is an american team or a danish team depending on your point of view.

Leiphemer looked good today and even when menchov attacked at the top he seemed quite calm about it not looking to push himself to hard just yet. Hes going to ba a factor in the tour this year i feel

doctorSpoc said:

isn't CSC is a Danish company, headquartered in Denmark... ?

CSC stands for Computer Science Corporation. It main HQ and founders where from Southern California. They used to have some huge state contracts until EDS gobbled everything up so CSC diversified. They are still HQ'd in SoCal but nobody really knows what their core business is anymore.

CSC; a Danish team sponsered by a US company - CSC.

[font=Verdana]Cool your jets man. 7 tour wins is good. However, if CSC pull off the Tour that will be two major classics, a Giro and a Tour in one year ! (and I'm not mentioning the 487 other stage wins and smaller races). This is my point. Riis is fostering riders in all disciplines not just Tour riders. Riis wants it all. DC just wanted the Tour at the expense of everything else. Fair play to DC, they won seven [/font][font=Verdana]Tours[/font][font=Verdana] because they had an exception rider in the stables but they really should of had one eye on the "post Lance era". The Tour was everything to DC and that’s all the team focused on and it takes a long time to change the perceptions within the team that other races matter now. Now calm down. I love cycling and I don’t freeze my nuts off on the side of mountain passes for nothing - I’ll tell it like it is. DC is having a [censored] year and it doesn't take Sheryl Crow to tell anyone that !
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saluki said:

This continuing rant of yours is really stupid. First of all, DC hasn't put all of their eggs in the TD basket. After Lance left they evaluated what they had left and tried to use it to the teams best advantage. There wasn't much climbing talent left in the group and Danielson was the guy with the most promise in that category. Declaring Danielson an utter failure because he got sick in the Giro is equally dumb.

You are also wrong about putting too much pressure on him. In fact, when they sent him to the Vuelta last year the only expectation that they placed on him was to finnish his first GT. Of course any team would like to see any of their riders do well - inexperienced or not. And what is wrong with that. Nobody told Danielson, "if you don't do this or that we will consider you a failure".

And you are also wrong about DC fostering young talent. They fostered a lot of young talent and other teams wanted that young talent for themselves. Many of those talented young riders didn't want to live in Lance's shadow, so they took good offers and left. If they hadn't been doing well on DC, they would never have had those offers in the first place. That doesn't mean that DC was doing anything wrong. It's just a fact of life that you can't give everyone a chance when you have a Lance Armstong as your team leader. If CSC ends up with anyone other than Basso that can finnish top ten, then other teams will begin to cherry pick those riders and there will be nothing that Riis can do about it.

And last your are really dumb to think that a team can loose one of the greatest riders ever and immediately be back in step the next season. Now that Lance is gone any good prospects that are picked up by DC will not have to go to other teams because they will have their chance with DC.

For anyone to say that the team that has won the last 7 TDF's is badly managed, that person must be a bonified, certified, obsessive fruitcake.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]Cool your jets man. 7 tour wins is good. However, if CSC pull off the Tour that will be two major classics, a Giro and a Tour in one year !

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Disco won the Giro and the Tour last year. Was Bruneel brilliant last year and did he suddenly become stupid this year.
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Quoted post said:

(and I'm not mentioning the 487 other stage wins and smaller races). This is my point. Riis is fostering riders in all disciplines not just Tour riders. Riis wants it all.

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I don't see Riis winning a lot of sprints. And I see Disco taking their shot at the Classics. What did CSC do in the Vuleta last year?
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Quoted post said:

DC just wanted the Tour at the expense of everything else.

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[font=Verdana][/font]
[font=Verdana]That's because any way you try to cut it, it's worth more than all the other races put together. Maybe not for dyed in the wool cycling nerds - but certainly for the rest of the world.[/font]

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Quoted post said:

Fair play to DC, they won seven [/font][font=Verdana]Tours[/font][font=Verdana] because they had an exception rider in the stables but they really should of had one eye on the "post Lance era".

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[font=Verdana][/font]
[font=Verdana]The post Lance era doesn't consist of just this year. Give them a chance. Lance's salary and success and personality tended to suck all of the oxygen out of the room. Bruneel probably did the best with what he had. Also remember that Disco did a great job protecting Lance during those years. Better than CSC will likely do protecting Basso. That in itself required that Bruneel get some good people and required that he keep them in top condition. Last year was probably the first year that they had any let down in supporting Lance. I don't think that you can find a coach or team manager in any sport that didn't have a bad year once in a while. That doesn't mean that the coaching suddenly became bad.[/font]

Yeah, Riis is a smart guy and he has done well with his team. But to make generalizations based upon a single year when CSC is up and Disco is down is just absurd.

i dont really want to get involved int he DC/CSC argument, but something inside me says that when Ivan Basso retires in like 8 or 10 years having won a bunch of grand tours (maybe as many as lance), CSC will still have a good season the year after because they race year round.

saluki said:

[/font]I don't see Riis winning a lot of sprints. And I see Disco taking their shot at the Classics. What did CSC do in the Vuleta last year?

So Sastre coming second in the Vuelta last is nothing ? He rides for CSC doesn't he ? :p Get wiith the program man !

superdanuk said:

A part of it is but it is a multinational company really and you could say it is an american team or a danish team depending on your point of view.

Leiphemer looked good today and even when menchov attacked at the top he seemed quite calm about it not looking to push himself to hard just yet. Hes going to ba a factor in the tour this year i feel

Yep LL looked good today he and Moreau worked hard to damage the other "favourites".

Some pics i took of LL:

picture 1: LL in yellow during the TT of the Tour of Germany 2005

picture 2: LL during the Gerolsteiner team presentation

saluki said:

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Disco won the Giro and the Tour last year.
I don't see Riis winning a lot of sprints. And I see Disco taking their shot at the Classics. What did CSC do in the Vuleta last year?
.

The Vuelta?
Ehh...2nd place! Carlos Sastre.
3rd place on team competition.

Why? What did Disco do there?? Oh yeah, Tommy D made the top 20

cyclingheroes said:

Yep LL looked good today he and Moreau worked hard to damage the other "favourites".

Great riding by the foetus yesterday. Has he peaked too soon for the Tour I wonder?

wicklow200 said:

Great riding by the foetus yesterday. Has he peaked too soon for the Tour I wonder?

No i don't think he peaked to soon

Doesn't Riis have to win something besides 1 GT before we say he is a great DS? He's been at it awhile already. Basso hasn't won the TDF yet. And if he does, watch the other riders bail out on Riis with good contracts with other teams.

wolfix said:

Doesn't Riis have to win something besides 1 GT before we say he is a great DS? He's been at it awhile already. Basso hasn't won the TDF yet. And if he does, watch the other riders bail out on Riis with good contracts with other teams.

Amstel Gold 2006, Paris-Roubaix 2006, shall i continue?

saluki said:

That's because any way you try to cut it, it's worth more than all the other races put together. Maybe not for dyed in the wool cycling nerds - but certainly for the rest of the world.

I dispute that the TDF is worth more than all the other races put together.

In fact, what you're suggesting is not the case at all.

And if you're accusing people of nerdism - I suggest that you start with yourself.

moviekindoflife said:

i dont really want to get involved int he DC/CSC argument, but something inside me says that when Ivan Basso retires in like 8 or 10 years having won a bunch of grand tours (maybe as many as lance), CSC will still have a good season the year after because they race year round.

agreed.

Yah know, I am thinking that perhaps, when Ivan Basso has say, done the double, won the TdF 5 times, won the Vuelta, done the triple or whatever peoples opinions of him might start dropping. I mean, when Lance won his first TdF in 1999 what did people think of him them. I'm sure everyone loved it, plucky cancer survivor winning the worlds greatest sporting event and all. Then he won again, and agian, and again. When did people start thinking, hmm, isn't he just a little too good. And then they started to hate him, his team etc etc. So maybe the same will happen to Ivan Basso. I think he stands more of a chance as he seems to be a generally nice guy etc, but you never know.

Back to the subject at hand (seems to be another anti-DC vs pro-DC arguement brewing): LL.

He had a great mid season last year and he looks like he's going to do the same again this year. Last year he peaked for the middle section of the year, good in the Dauphine, strong in the TdF, and then won the Tour of Germany.

Not sure if I really want to make too much of a prediction on TdF form but last year suggest he can be good in the Dauphine and the TdF so his current strength should mean he'll be on track come July. Not entirely sure if he'll be able to hit top 5, so many strong contenders for top 5 and even podium placings that I think he may be squeezed out again like last year. 6th or 7th perhaps would be my guess now.

Eldrack said:

Back to the subject at hand (seems to be another anti-DC vs pro-DC arguement brewing): LL.

He had a great mid season last year and he looks like he's going to do the same again this year. Last year he peaked for the middle section of the year, good in the Dauphine, strong in the TdF, and then won the Tour of Germany.

Not sure if I really want to make too much of a prediction on TdF form but last year suggest he can be good in the Dauphine and the TdF so his current strength should mean he'll be on track come July. Not entirely sure if he'll be able to hit top 5, so many strong contenders for top 5 and even podium placings that I think he may be squeezed out again like last year. 6th or 7th perhaps would be my guess now.

LL narrowly lost DL last year - and he seemed to be put out at having let lst years opportunity of winning pas him by.
Therefore I would expect a very determined effort in this years race.

saluki said:

And you are also wrong about DC fostering young talent. They fostered a lot of young talent and other teams wanted that young talent for themselves. Many of those talented young riders didn't want to live in Lance's shadow, so they took good offers and left.

These are the younger cyclists who were nurtured by DC/USPS:

Boonen (he benefited from tDemol's advice when he was a non-pro rider)
Dave Z
Leipheimer
Hamilton
Landis

The reason people leave DC for other teams is, among other things, they get a lot of visibility and media coverage as a result of being on DC, especially back in the LA days when they were on the USPS/DC Tour Team. If they did well, that would be noticed by the press and other teams.

That goes to my theory that helping LA had a lot of non-monetary compensation. Not only the sense of making history and helping somebody who had a large likelihood of winning (non-monetary benefits relating to psychological benefits), but also visibility.

The reason some people left is for the opportunity to be co-leader or leader of their own teams for the Tour. Obviously, that position was not available when LA was at DC, USPS. Even after LA retired, people knew the position at DC would not be easy to get within the team.

There is some young cyclists with potential on the team still:

Popo (he was young enough to qualify for the white jersey last year)
J Brajkovich (sp)
T Danielson (still has a bit of time; should focus on the substance of his riding more than his media image)
S Devolder

wicklow200 said:

Great riding by the foetus yesterday. Has he peaked too soon for the Tour I wonder?

How do you know that he has peaked?

limerickman said:

I dispute that the TDF is worth more than all the other races put together.

In fact, what you're suggesting is not the case at all.

And if you're accusing people of nerdism - I suggest that you start with yourself.

Everybody knows the TDF winner. He makes all the talk shows. His sponsors are happy. He gets the biggest salary. In the real world the TDF is worth more than all the other races put together. To the cycling nerds that follow ever race, this is, of course, not the case. And I have no problem with wearing that nerd label myself.