legitimate use for mirrors.. consider this

On Sun, 02 May 2004 14:43:08 -0000, [email hidden] (larry english - no

address harvesting) said:

say you are in fairly dense traffic. you do not need to
look back to see if there are cars - you know there are
cars. you are not considering changing your lane position.
but you would like to know how far back that closest car
is, and where it is in the lane. a quick scan in the mirror
tells you, faster than turning your head. and your
peripheral vision is still on the road.

Also a head mounted mirror has little or no vibration like a
handlebar mounted mirror.

Problem is these helmet or eyeglass mounted things can be
breakage prone, typically with a three-prong attachment, and
if one prong breaks, that's
it. Sometimes the mirror is mounted on a pivot that's a bit
delicate, also.

There is one place on my route where I need to make a quick,
uphill U-turn, and sometimes cars like to sneak up on me and
ride my tail, so closely, in fact, that they can't respond
to my left-turn hand signal. (Fortunately we're both
traveling quite slowly.) A helmet or eyeglass mirror would
be great at those times, -just- to give me a quick scan, as
traffic at this point is usually non-existent but if I zone
out and miss one it could be nasty.

So go or the most robust model you can find, and treat it
with care (or buy two, heh.)

-B

I have not used a handlebar mirror or add-on helmet mirror.
I have gone through a few of the eyeglass mirrors and the
tiny little ones that go on the inside of your lense. While
useful, they did have a pretty narrow angle of vision and
require moving the head to scan the needed angle of view.

My preference is a helmet with a built in mirror.
reevu.comreevu.comOpen ↗ started building these in 2002. It
works like a periscope, a mirror in the bill that reflects
back over the forehead and a couple over the top to get
the line of site to road level. I bought mine from edinburgh-edinburgh-Open ↗
bicycle.co.uk/ but they have been out of stock for this
helmet so look for other online retailers. I paid UK#45
and 15 for Royal mail, converted to US$97.30 on the date I
made my purchase. Considering the mirrors I was going
through, I found the cost acceptable. I find the pictures
of the rear view a bit mis-leading. The apparent angle is
about 1/2 normal size. After using for a few miles, I got
used to the size but always found the wide angle covering
you whole backside much better that the little of one side
you see from other mirrors. Like autos being able to use
their center review mirros instead of only the outside
door mirror.

Badger_South said:

On Sun, 02 May 2004 14:43:08 -0000, [email hidden]

(larry english - no address harvesting) said:

say you are in fairly dense traffic. you do not need to
look back to see if there are cars - you know there are
cars. you are not considering changing your lane
position. but you would like to know how far back that
closest car is, and where it is in the lane. a quick scan
in the mirror tells you, faster than turning your head.
and your peripheral vision is still on the road.

Also a head mounted mirror has little or no vibration like
a handlebar mounted mirror.

Problem is these helmet or eyeglass mounted things can be
breakage prone, typically with a three-prong attachment,
and if one prong breaks, that's
it. Sometimes the mirror is mounted on a pivot that's a
bit delicate, also.

There is one place on my route where I need to make a
quick, uphill U-turn, and sometimes cars like to sneak up
on me and ride my tail, so closely, in fact, that they
can't respond to my left-turn hand signal. (Fortunately
we're both traveling quite slowly.) A helmet or eyeglass
mirror would be great at those times, -just- to give me a
quick scan, as traffic at this point is usually non-
existent but if I zone out and miss one it could be nasty.

So go or the most robust model you can find, and treat it
with care (or buy two, heh.)

-B

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have not used a handlebar mirror or add-on helmet mirror.
I have gone through a few of the eyeglass mirrors and the
tiny little ones that go on the inside of your lense. While
useful, they did have a pretty narrow angle of vision and
require moving the head to scan the needed angle of view.

i made mine, from actual piano wire and plastic mirror
material. it is taped to the helmet. so no eyeglass worries.
sticks out about 4".

wle.

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Problem is these helmet or eyeglass mounted things can be
breakage prone, typically with a three-prong attachment,
and if one prong breaks, that's
it. Sometimes the mirror is mounted on a pivot that's a
bit delicate,

also.

Quoted message said:

So go or the most robust model you can find, and treat it
with care (or

buy

Quoted message said:

two, heh.)

Get ones in which the three prongs are metal (e.g. "Take a
Look" brand), not the ones in which they are plastic (e.g.
"Third Eye" brand). The metal ones are quite sturdy. As you
note, the plastic ones break easily.

--
---
Mike Kruger Blog:
journals.aol.comZbicyclistsZlogOpen ↗

larry english - no address harvesting said:

ok, i use a helmet mirror.

{snippage}

Quoted message said:

thoughts..?

I use one, too. Did a hard 45-miler today, and I was only
one (of 7) who had a mirror.

Other days 4 or 5 out of 6 or 7 riders will have 'em.

Bill "personal choice" S.

larry english said:

i made mine, from actual piano wire and plastic mirror
material. it is taped to the helmet. so no eyeglass
worries. sticks out about 4".

I made mine, too. Same materials, but it hooks to my
eyeglasses. It's usable with any - or no - hat.

Wire has an advantage over the plastic, three prong, ball-
jointed commercial models. It's much less fragile, and once
you bend the wire to give proper focus, it rarely needs
refocusing.

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot
com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Badger_South said:

... Problem is these helmet or eyeglass mounted things can
be breakage prone, typically with a three-prong
attachment, and if one prong breaks, that's
it. Sometimes the mirror is mounted on a pivot that's a
bit delicate, also.

I have a pair of sunglasses I use just for cycling. They
have wide robust temples. I bored a couple of holes in the
left temple and attached the mirror with zip ties. Seems to
work pretty well.

Mike

[email hidden] (larry english - no address harvesting) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

ok, i use a helmet mirror.

i like it.

i understand some of the arguments against using mirrors.

but - here is where i think they really help.

say you are in fairly dense traffic.

Say no more.....Dense traffic is a wonderful place for
a mirror...

Quoted message said:

here is another one. you are on a quiet road. you are
fairly far from the right, maybe even near the center of
the lane. there are no cars. you know there are no cars.
periodic scans behind, using the mirror, reinforce this
fact for you.

Again, a wonderful use for the mirror....

I really do not understand the uproar about mirror use...

Years ago when I raced no "serious" rider would be caught
within 15 feet of a mirror (unless shaving their
legs)...only tourists and freds hung glass off thier
helmets. But then again, in those days, no serious rider
wore a helmet (unless it was a Cinelli hairnet), used
clinchers, index shifted, or wore poly-anything.

However, these days, I really like my mirror (a stick-on
Cycle Aware Reflex). Years of training still allows me to
look around when needed, but having the mirror in traffic
gives one more data input. It sort of negates the loss or
distortion of hearing caused by helmet wind noise. All that
air cooling my noggin creates enough noise to somewhat mask
the sound of approaching cars.

Just another lightweght weapon in my survival arsenal....

w l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m (larry english) said:

[email hidden] says:

Quoted message said:

I have gone through a few of the eyeglass mirrors and the
tiny little ones that go on the inside of your lense.

i made mine, from actual piano wire and plastic mirror
material. it is taped to the helmet.

Wow, that seems like a tragic waste of a piano.

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,

(larry english - no address harvesting) said:

say you are in fairly dense traffic. you do not need to
look back to see if there are cars -

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

you know there are cars. you are not considering changing
your lane position. but you would like to know how far
back that closest car is, and where it is in the lane.

Why? And why look back if, as you say, you don't need to?
I'd think it's much better to look forward, to watch out for
cars crossing your line. After all, those are proven to be
bigger threats than anything on your 6.

...

Quoted message said:

here is another one. you are on a quiet road. you are
fairly far from the right, maybe even near the center of
the lane. there are no cars. you know there are no cars.
periodic scans behind, using the mirror, reinforce this
fact for you.

Periodic shoulder checks do the same thing.

Quoted message said:

the reason you want to know is, if a car did come along,
you might consider moving a little farther to the right.

We're mostly already required to be as far right as
practicable, and allowed to be as far left as is safe (North
America, right-hand driving.) So you should already be in
the rightmost safest line. Or, the safest rightmost line.

Quoted message said:

thoughts..?

People should learn to ride safely without mirrors before
resorting to them. It's been demonstratedly done in the
past, so it's do-able now. Mirrors are okay, but get the
skills first; the mirror, second.

Mirrors can good on narrow, urban, residential streets when
you take a track-stand siding between parked cars to let an
oncoming car through, and then prepare to re-enter the
traffic line. But even then, shoulder-checking is better.
Mirrors are also good for seeing how mussed your hair is,
after taking your helmet off.

cheers, Tom

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In article <[email hidden]>,

(Chalo) said:

w l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m (larry english) said:

[email hidden] says:

Quoted message said:

I have gone through a few of the eyeglass mirrors and
the tiny little ones that go on the inside of your
lense.

i made mine, from actual piano wire and plastic mirror
material. it is taped to the helmet.

Wow, that seems like a tragic waste of a piano.

Chalo Colina

Unlike 7-speed bike drivetrains, piano wire is not most
easily or cheaply acquired by buying the complete device
which it is designed to be part of.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(Chalo) said:

w l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m (larry english) said:

[email hidden] says:
>I have gone through a few of the eyeglass mirrors and
>the tiny little ones that go on the inside of your
>lense.

i made mine, from actual piano wire and plastic mirror
material. it is taped to the helmet.

Wow, that seems like a tragic waste of a piano.

Chalo Colina

Unlike 7-speed bike drivetrains, piano wire is not most
easily or cheaply acquired by buying the complete device
which it is designed to be part of.

Malkin & Pinton. That's where I acquired the piano wire
with which I strung the hammered dulcimer I built, a few
decades ago.

Bronze wire is somewhat more ... obliging, in terms of
workability. Sweeter sounding, too.

cheers, Tom

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ah, here it is, the uproar.

wle.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (larry english - no address

harvesting) said:

say you are in fairly dense traffic. you do not need to
look back to see if there are cars -

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

you know there are cars. you are not considering
changing your lane position. but you would like to know
how far back that closest car is, and where it is in
the lane.

Why? And why look back if, as you say, you don't need to?
I'd think it's much better to look forward, to watch out
for cars crossing your line. After all, those are proven to
be bigger threats than anything on your 6.

...

Quoted message said:

here is another one. you are on a quiet road. you are
fairly far from the right, maybe even near the center of
the lane. there are no cars. you know there are no cars.
periodic scans behind, using the mirror, reinforce this
fact for you.

Periodic shoulder checks do the same thing.

Quoted message said:

the reason you want to know is, if a car did come along,
you might consider moving a little farther to the right.

We're mostly already required to be as far right as
practicable, and allowed to be as far left as is safe
(North America, right-hand driving.) So you should
already be in the rightmost safest line. Or, the safest
rightmost line.

Quoted message said:

thoughts..?

People should learn to ride safely without mirrors before
resorting to them. It's been demonstratedly done in the
past, so it's do-able now. Mirrors are okay, but get the
skills first; the mirror, second.

Mirrors can good on narrow, urban, residential streets when
you take a track-stand siding between parked cars to let an
oncoming car through, and then prepare to re-enter the
traffic line. But even then, shoulder-checking is better.
Mirrors are also good for seeing how mussed your hair is,
after taking your helmet off.

cheers, Tom

--
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In article <[email hidden]>,

w l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m (wle - no address harvesting!!) said:

ah, here it is, the uproar.

Not much of one. But hey, if ya want uproar I can give you
upr- ... nah, I've gotta make some brunch. Two shingled over-
easies, two rashers of bacon, cup of coffee, and then maybe
another one. I'd fix some up for you, too, if I could. Or
something healthier and less greasy if you prefer. Salmon
salad makes a nice brunch.

cheers, Tom

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mirrors are okay

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Ryan Cousineau said:

(Chalo) said:

w l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m (larry english) said:

i made mine, from actual piano wire and plastic mirror
material. it is taped to the helmet.

Wow, that seems like a tragic waste of a piano.

Unlike 7-speed bike drivetrains, piano wire is not most
easily or cheaply acquired by buying the complete device
which it is designed to be part of.

Ah, but is it then _actual piano_ wire, as Larry suggested,
or simply piano-type wire? Is there not a difference between
a hot dog for lunch, and a hot actual dog for lunch? Given a
choice between say "riding Big Bear" and "riding big actual
bear", for instance, my preference is clear.

Chalo Colina "simple actual ton"

Tom Keats said:

Malkin & Pinton. That's where I acquired the piano wire
with which I strung the hammered dulcimer I built, a few
decades ago.

Cool! How's it sound? Do you play?

--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot
com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

Cool! How's it sound? Do you play?

It sounds very bright and perky, with lots of sustain. I
built it back in 1974. I had a 'store-bought' one, but I
wasn't happy with its design, and it didn't have enough
courses (range not high enough), so I decided I'd have to
DIY it. I did lots of research, examined many ethnic
versions and consulted with some luthiers before even
putting pencil to paper to come up with a design.

One day I walked into a piano shop and asked the guy if he
had any spare tuning pegs, and if he'd be willing to sell
them. He asked what I wanted them for and when I told him,
he was suddenly reminded that his father had built a
dulcimer way back when. He seemed delighted at that memory,
and he happily gave me a beat-up cardbox full of 'em.

On my store-bought one, the strings' paths have too many
bends in them. On my hand-built one, they only bend once -
where they pass over the bridges. At first glance, a
dulcimer might look like a simple box with strings across
it. But there's sure a lot of trig involved, as well as
some 'engineering' to keep the strings from folding the
whole thing up like a book. I worked out my own
chromatic tuning, but I still need a couple more
courses :-) So many tunes have that high note that's
just out of range. Maybe some day I'll build another.

As a musical instrument, I find them very interesting. So
many cultures all over the globe have their distinctive
versions. Sometimes people ask me about it; to keep the
story short, I just tell them it's basically a piano with
the keyboard kicked off.

I do play, but not while riding. Some folk tunes, some
rockabilly stuff ... just tunes that tickle my fancy. The
Theme from A Summer Place sounds interesting on it. And some
Latin American harp tunes I picked up off the radio.

cheers, Tom

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