Leg Speed

Quoted post said:

This is to be expected. A Keirin is a sprint event where you try an do as little as posisble to the last moment and unleash top power.

Well not all keirins go that way. Sprints seem to be getting longer. Depends on grade too a little.

Quoted post said:

This is my point. I don't think any endurance rider expects to get an armchair ride in the World Points, Scratch and Madison events.

But you asked me about peak numbers in points racing so I thought perhaps you were expecting something different?

I could generate high peak numbers in a points race but my strategy may suggest that's not necessarily a good idea.

Roadie_scum said:

Hamish, did you coach any of the juniors at the Oceania Track Champs? I saw some great performances from some of the young NZ guys, including a fiery and fantastic bronze medal final which NZer Ed Dawkins won against Aussie Jason 'Angry Eyes' Holloway (I could watch that guy sprint all day...)

There were also some great Kilo's by NZ guys (not world class yet, but young guys with good potential), second and third.

If you did coach there are you still in town? Send me a PM...

Bad time of year. My juniors have School exams. Not quite sure how the U19s who went wangled it.

Eddie is looking very good. He is based out of Invercargill so has the indoor track at his disposal. Elijah May is a first year senior so watch this space!

HF

Lucy_Aspenwind said:

Hi...

As the title implies, I hope to get some suggestions on how to best improve/increase my leg speed. This is specifically for sprinting and that sort of training.

Today while doing a 20-sprint workout, in the midst of a series of standing starts, I could sense precisely that my legs were simply not turning fast enough to hit my usual numbers. After several attempts and more concentration I was back where I usually am.

While I don't know all the specifics, I do know enough to realize this is more of a constraint on my sprint performance than force (kudos to Andy as well for that point).

I'd also like to know if it is better to do before sprints, after, or on a different day entirely - more or less, how it should fit in with training.

Anyway, I already have one suggestion each from RD and Alex, so if anyone has others, please do share them. 🙂

In my opinion, the ability to pedal at high RPM at low power is simply an indication of how efficient and coordinated the rider is. If you want to improve your highest rpm one way to do it is to train with PowerCranks which will improve your loaded and unloaded pedaling coordination.

Two anecdotes. A masters trackie improved his top end rpm after 6 years with PowerCranks (nothing said this would come fast or easy) from 174 to 245. He can now sustain a cadence of 202. Another PC user, in this case a young 13 yo girl who had been on PC's for 2 years was the youngest person ever invited to the OTC and while there had an unloaded cadence test done. She was able to achieve the highest cadence ever reached by a female of any age at this facility, 255 rpm.

There may be other ways to improve this ability, but PC's is one way that available to you.

Frank
PowerCranks

Fday said:

In my opinion, the ability to pedal at high RPM at low power is simply an indication of how efficient and coordinated the rider is. If you want to improve your highest rpm one way to do it is to train with PowerCranks which will improve your loaded and unloaded pedaling coordination.

Two anecdotes. A masters trackie improved his top end rpm after 6 years with PowerCranks (nothing said this would come fast or easy) from 174 to 245. He can now sustain a cadence of 202. Another PC user, in this case a young 13 yo girl who had been on PC's for 2 years was the youngest person ever invited to the OTC and while there had an unloaded cadence test done. She was able to achieve the highest cadence ever reached by a female of any age at this facility, 255 rpm.

There may be other ways to improve this ability, but PC's is one way that available to you.

Frank
PowerCranks

"The plural of anecdote is not evidence."

Roadie_scum said:

"The plural of anecdote is not evidence."

No, it only takes a single anecdote to be evidence. The plural of anecdote is simply more evidence. What the plural of anecdote is not, is proof. :-)

Frank

Lucy_Aspenwind said:

So if, as you put it, NM power is less than neglibible for road races and crits - why do you have your athletes do sprints? I would think athletes should work on things that have more than a neglible effect on their events....

They do NM training because I look at the overall development of the rider. It is on the list of priorities just a wee way down.

I give the example of a US based Professional and World Level Track Endurance Rider. His peak power output is 1690watts.

In a 1.04 Kilo his peak power was 1585watts
In a 4.51 Pursuit his peak was 1121watts
Final sprint of a Pro Crit was 1329watts
Going for Sprint Ace had peak sprint of 1304 but most sprints ave of around 1000watts.

So where in his training should NM training take a higher priority than aerobic training seeing at no point here does he come close to his peak power let alone his 5sec power.

I am sure if we looked at the peak power generated in Boonen, Bettini and Vos's world championship sprints it would be no where near their max power if the were to do a 15 sec sprint while fuly rested.

Guess where I am coming from is bang for buck a roadie or track enduro should be investing more time in their 5min, 10min, 30min, 60min max power. My riders do NM training but at present (16weeks from Track Nats) the enduros are doing 3 X 50m standing starts a week. The sprinters for whom 5 sec power is crucial are doing about 30 6sec efforts a week among other things.

In fact one sprinter is a little concerned that this is too much 6sec power training and is more focused on her 15-20sec power!

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Fday said:

No, it only takes a single anecdote to be evidence. The plural of anecdote is simply more evidence. What the plural of anecdote is not, is proof. :-)

Frank

I thought the plural of anecdote was anecdotes 🙄

Hamish-I will again take the laymans approach to all of this, but improving your NM power should in my mind make you more powerful and if your more powerful, thats good for everything isnt it? In other words, being more powerful at peak should make your more powerful at 5 sec, 10 sec, etc shouldnt it?

rayhuang said:

Hamish-I will again take the laymans approach to all of this, but improving your NM power should in my mind make you more powerful and if your more powerful, thats good for everything isnt it? In other words, being more powerful at peak should make your more powerful at 5 sec, 10 sec, etc shouldnt it?

That's a good point and we see the Aussie sprinters apply reverse periodisation and do 6 sec sprints, max strength and max power work all year round and add speed endurance at the end.

The NZ National Track Coach told me years ago that from his trips overseas he learned the Aussies were training their roadies like pursuiters, pursuiters like Kilo riders and Kilo riders like sprinters.

It's what we see on this group where people are now more focused on 20-60min Power than getting in as many 100mile rides per week. This is a good thing. I just think that endurance cycling is an aerobic sport and making 5sec power a high priority is not as effective as trying to improve ones functional threshold.

I have three years of SRM data from the above rider and at no point does he do any dedicated sprint training yet has won US Pro Crits, was sprint ace in last years Tour of Southland, won a World Cup Teams Pursuit round and regularly beats up the NZ sprint team.

If I was trying to improve my road sprint I would focus on 20-30sec power. I am sure as Sanchez tried to set up Valverde that Bettini didn't have the luxury of waiting to the last 75m to unleash his sprint and at the end of 6 hours of riding would have probably been 200-400watts away from his peak power. Would be a nice file to check out.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach