leg extention

[email hidden] (skott) wrote in news:9f7a44a6.0307181947.4f947459 @posting.google.com:

Quoted message said:

I have been watching the Tour de France, particularly the time trial today, and observed the leg
extension seemed about 20 degrees short of full extension. It seems the advice given for
recumbents is just a few degrees short of full extension. What advantage do the Tour riders have
with this more limited extension and have any of you tried a similar amount of extention on
recumbents when going for maximum speed? What is optimal leg extension for a recumbent rider?

Skott

I got to a much more closed leg position after many miles of riding my bents. Felt totally wierd at
first, but move the seat up and back, and my legs were "much" stronger in a more closed (less
extension) position. Seems to use more of the larger upper leg muscles. JMO (

Skott, For my 2 cents on this subject:

The concept of "Optimum" is not very appropriate for cycling ergonomics. An optimum may exist for
any given rider, but usually doesn't generalize to all riders.

I am still searching for my optimum. I have found that, while trying to spin, I need to be closer to
the pedals to do so. This equates to your observation that "the tour riders are 20 degrees short of
full extension".

Jude (Wheel Doctor) frequently talks about fine tuning his adjustments during a given day.
Certainly, a rider of Jude's capabilities and experience would know where his optimum setup is, yet
he has to fine tune for the day and the hour.

In my own clumsy search of the optimum, the aches and pains steer me towards my own Mecca. Someday,
I hope to find it.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

MLB <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I got to a much more closed leg position after many miles of riding my bents. Felt totally wierd
: at first, but move the seat up and back, and my legs were "much" stronger in a more closed (less
: extension) position. Seems to use more of the larger upper leg muscles. JMO (

Also it's impossible to push against the seat if you already are completely extended.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

When I first set up my BikeE 5 years ago, 20 degrees was the recommended starting point for leg
extension for a recumbent. It's pretty much trail and error from that point. If my seat changes more
than ~1/4 inch I can feel it in my legs. I'll start to cramp around 15-20 miles into a ride. One
thing you don't want to do is hyperextend your knees on the pedal stroke. I'm now on my third
recumbent, and it still holds true. Denny in Sayre, PA "Bent but not broken www.recumbentstuff.com

"> In my own clumsy search of the optimum, the aches and pains steer me towards

Quoted message said:

my own Mecca. Someday, I hope to find it.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

Gee Tom thats high praise...living up to it is another thing. I do a lot of adjusting when the bike
is new to me and if I find phyisological things happening to me that are "new" I give it some
thought then try different approaches. Sometimes I do nothing and see if I adapt, sometimes things
are fine during flat rides and then on a climb I notice a twinge and wonder "Whats this all about"?
I reciently got new shoes and found that it altered my leg length and it had some annoying effects.
Also went from SPD to EggBeaters and again a difference. Now that said...IMO leg muscles devlop
differently during our lives and it has to do first with genetics and secondly with the types of
physical activity we participate in or have participated in. This can have an effect on what is
"Best for the particular individual" There is no (IMO) set formula for everyone. People say
(recumbent riders and non) How can you ride with your arms like that? I say "Its very comfortable
for ME, it may or may not be for you".

Thus trial and error! What do you think about the guy you remarked to at the rest stop about how YOU
thought he was too close to the pedals?.... as he passes you on the next climb? I think one must be
willing to tinker and get it right. I have had things as simple as a minor seat position make all
the difference for some. KneeSavers? etc. As to this 20 degree thing? Most all pros make trips to
the lab for power output testing and then the bikes are set up for opimum performance for THEM. We
don't have that option so we tinker...Well at least I do.

--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Skott, For my 2 cents on this subject:

The concept of "Optimum" is not very appropriate for cycling ergonomics.

An

Quoted message said:

optimum may exist for any given rider, but usually doesn't generalize to

all

Quoted message said:

riders.

I am still searching for my optimum. I have found that, while trying to spin, I need to be closer
to the pedals to do so. This equates to your observation that "the tour riders are 20 degrees
short of full extension".

Jude (Wheel Doctor) frequently talks about fine tuning his adjustments during a given day.
Certainly, a rider of Jude's capabilities and

experience

Quoted message said:

would know where his optimum setup is, yet he has to fine tune for the day and the hour.

In my own clumsy search of the optimum, the aches and pains steer me

towards

Quoted message said:

my own Mecca. Someday, I hope to find it.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone

www.gate.net/~teblum

"Zippy the Pinhead" wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have been watching the Tour de France, particularly the time trial today, and observed the leg
extension seemed about 20 degrees short of full extension.

This is an illusion created by the incredible speed and power of elite cyclists. [censored]
Mozzarella could probably add more detail to this later when he has time, but what happens is that
the incredibly powerful elite cyclists spin their legs so fast that they never have a chance to
arrive at full extension.

Or maybe they do have full extension at the beginning of the race, but within a few miles those
skinny little seats are wedged so far up their butt cracks that they're actually sitting closer
to the pedals. I think they only use those "manly" hill climbs as an excuse to stand up and get
some relief.

I rode with a very full leg extension on my DF and now do the same as I learn to ride a bent. I had
a very painful experience on my DF when some "pros" told me that I should have less extension. So, I
lowered my seat about a half and inch and went for a 40 mile ride with some moderate hills. It took
6 months for the swelling to go down in my right knee. I raised the seat back up to its original
position and don't listen to any more advice about lowering it.

"skott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been watching the Tour de France, particularly the time trial today, and observed the leg
extension seemed about 20 degrees short of full extension. It seems the advice given for
recumbents is just a few degrees short of full extension. What advantage do the Tour riders have
with this more limited extension and have any of you tried a similar amount of extention on
recumbents when going for maximum speed? What is optimal leg extension for a recumbent rider?

Skott

It has been my experience, limited as it is, that adjustments to seats, handlebars, etc. should
really be done in mm not fractions of inches. A half an inch, IMHO, is a HUGE change. I learned that
while tweaking in my DFs and my bent. Of course, we're all different, that's what makes us unique.

B "Dave Harney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I rode with a very full leg extension on my DF and now do the same as I learn to ride a bent. I
had a very painful experience on my DF when some "pros" told me that I should have less extension.
So, I lowered my seat about a half and inch and went for a 40 mile ride with some moderate

hills.

Quoted message said:

It took 6 months for the swelling to go down in my right knee. I raised

the

Quoted message said:

seat back up to its original position and don't listen to any more advice about lowering it.

"skott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been watching the Tour de France, particularly the time trial today, and observed the leg
extension seemed about 20 degrees short of full extension. It seems the advice given for
recumbents is just a few degrees short of full extension. What advantage do the Tour riders have
with this more limited extension and have any of you tried a similar amount of extention on
recumbents when going for maximum speed? What is optimal leg extension for a recumbent rider?

Skott

Dave, is it possible that you are misplacing the blame on extension? Possibly you are too focused on
extension and completely ignoring compression. Perhaps with the change in seat position you also
needed shorter cranks. When you lower the seat your knee will be at a different angle at the top.
This is well known to cause knee soreness and worse problems over time, especially on hills.

Maybe you did not need to adjust the seat. Maybe what you needed to achieve less extension was a
shorter crank.

Also, as others have pointed out, 0.5 inches is a lot, especially all at once. Think what that did
to the top of your stroke. Don

"Dave Harney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I rode with a very full leg extension on my DF and now do the same as I learn to ride a bent. I
had a very painful experience on my DF when some "pros" told me that I should have less extension.
So, I lowered my seat about a half and inch and went for a 40 mile ride with some moderate hills.
It took 6 months for the swelling to go down in my right knee. I raised the seat back up to its
original position and don't listen to any more advice about lowering it.

"skott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been watching the Tour de France, particularly the time trial today, and observed the leg
extension seemed about 20 degrees short of full extension. It seems the advice given for
recumbents is just a few degrees short of full extension. What advantage do the Tour riders have
with this more limited extension and have any of you tried a similar amount of extention on
recumbents when going for maximum speed? What is optimal leg extension for a recumbent rider?

Skott