Left Turn Lanes - split lanes or wait behing in the line ??

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left
Only lane).

Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car.

I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a
car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car
on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left
turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn
and proceed.

Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well
A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light
could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!!

B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving
fast (>30mph) - it is down right dangerous.

i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going
straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane.

what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i
missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class 🙁

My belief is that you always follow the rules for cars. I never slide past
any stopped cars to get to the front at any intersection unless there is a
designated bike lane. In my experience it just makes cars angry to have to
pass you again after you passed them when they were stopped. In your
example above, I do number 1, but try to swing as wide right as possible,
not taking the lane, allowing cars to pass me while they make the turn.

RWM said:

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left
Only lane).

Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car.

I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a
car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car
on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left
turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn
and proceed.

Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well
A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light
could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!!

B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is moving
fast (>30mph) - it is down right dangerous.

i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going
straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane.

what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i
missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class 🙁

My belief is that you always follow the rules for cars. I never slide past
any stopped cars to get to the front at any intersection unless there is a
designated bike lane. In my experience it just makes cars angry to have to
pass you again after you passed them when they were stopped. In your
example above, I do number 1, but try to swing as wide right as possible,
not taking the lane, allowing cars to pass me while they make the turn.

It's hard to tell not seeing the general 'vibe' for that intersection, but
if you're going as fast as any of the turning cars for the first part of
the turn, yeah, take the lane, and keep up, then as soon as you get into
the straightaway release the lane and get to the side if there's nothing to
impede you. Most bikers, even clydesdales like me can keep up for that
first 10 seconds around a turn and then find the safe spot. If it's a
skinny one-lane road, I'd hit the intersection behind all the cars, rather
than queue up in traffic, or take the lane until I could safely get over.

On a narrow road, the traffic post turn I can usually sprint up to >22 mph
and even stay ahead of the cars behind me and find the safe spot, typically
the speed limit is only 25 and you're doing it, lol. If it's uphill, that's
a different story. I might take it when traffic is clear, find another
route, etc. There are always options, imo. ;-)

-B

Ravi said:

Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a
Left Only lane).

Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first
car.

I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will
be a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing
down the car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start
out on the left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right)
allowing all cars to turn and proceed.

This is true, and it's often what I do. It does allow cars behind to pass in
the middle of the turn rather than wait, which is less likely to [censored] them off.
But it only makes sense if the road you're turning onto is wide enough to be
fully outside of cars (ie, bike lane) when you complete your turn. Otherwise it
makes more sense to just get in line with cars.

However, there's one other reason to take approach #2. If you're waiting behind
other cars, oncoming traffic can't see you until the last minute. This can be a
problem for red light runners. Even if you have a green arrow, it's common for
oncoming traffic making right turns to roll right around the corner. If you're
first in line,waiting for the light, oncoming traffic still might not see you,
because they're not looking for bikes. In that case, the "cover" of riding next
to a car can be good protection.

Quoted message said:

Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well
A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light
could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!!

So signal, and take their lane. If they get [censored], tough.

Quoted message said:

B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is
moving fast (>30mph) - it is down right dangerous.

As long as you stay out of their way, it shouldn't be a problem.

Quoted message said:

i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic
going straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane.

what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i
missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class 🙁

It would be great if everyone obeyed the rules, but riding defensively sometimes
means taking the offense.

Matt O.

Ravi asked in part:

<< Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car.>>

<<I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be
a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the
car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the
left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars
to turn and proceed.>>

What you want is a combination of the two--
line up behind the last car, but on the right part
of the lane. Keep an eye on the light and start
well, then drift a little right through the turn.
There is usually plenty of space in the void of
the intersection to do this, but also be mindful
of cars turning left from the other side of the
intersection.

Robert

Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:14:24 -0800, <[email hidden]>,

RWM said:

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a Left
Only lane).

Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car.

I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be a
car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the car
on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the left
turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars to turn
and proceed.

\snip

Quoted message said:

My belief is that you always follow the rules for cars. I never slide past
any stopped cars to get to the front at any intersection unless there is a
designated bike lane. In my experience it just makes cars angry to have to
pass you again after you passed them when they were stopped.

Tough titty. Cars don't get angry. It's the moron factor that comes
with needing a cage to negotiate the morass its presence created.

Quoted message said:

In your
example above, I do number 1, but try to swing as wide right as possible,
not taking the lane, allowing cars to pass me while they make the turn.

I do number two.

If they're all stopped I'm a the front of the line and make the turn
wide so I end up in the right side of the right lane. If the cars are
moving I split the lane. On level or downhill roads it's easier
matching their speed. There's usually room in both lanes.
I won't wait through two light sequences with my butt hanging out in
the left turn lane unless nailed by a quick light. Then I'm first off
the line at the next one.

There's a few situations where I'll do a box at an intersection I'd
normally do number two. Depends on the time of day, loads, grades and
sequencing of lights. Splitting lanes uphill with a trailer isn't
cool.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

I do number two.

Constantly.

Bill "sorry, ZK, just happened to catch it" S.

Ravi said:

Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a
Left Only lane).

Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car.

I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be
a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the
car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the
left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars
to turn and proceed.

Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well
A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light
could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!!

B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is
moving fast (>30mph) - it is down right dangerous.

i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going
straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane.

what do you guys think ? are there rules in this regard - somehow, i
missed this when i attended the LAB BikeEd class 🙁

thanks,
ravi

There is an option #3; the Swanston Street turn (named after a street in
the middle of Melbourne, Australia.)
Take the right lane, go across the intersection, then stop, swing bike
round so as to face in the new direction (left) in the new right lane,
wait for green, go.
This way you do not have to ride out to the left-turning lane in the
middle of the road.

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.

Ravi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<1099446345.535654@sj-nntpcache-5>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
What is the best method when it comes to making left turns (with a
Left Only lane).

Options:
1. Wait behind a car and move when the car ahead goes. (take the lane)
2. Split lanes and go slightly to the front (may be right) of first car.

I nearly always do 1.

Quoted message said:

I have been doing #2 - my logic: if you wait behind a car, there will be
a car behind you - when the signal turns green, you are slowing down the
car on your back. Also, since you are the first one to start out on the
left turn, you can swing out wide (and to the right) allowing all cars
to turn and proceed.

If you are moving from a standstill, you should be able to accelerate
at nearly the speed of traffic up to about 20 mph. Which will almost
always get you through the intersection before you have to worry about
holding anyone up.

I try to avoid allowing cars to pass me in intersections at all costs.
For one thing it's illegal for them to do so. But far more
importantly to me, they obstruct other traffic's ability to see me,
and they block one of my "outs" in case of emergency. Through the
intersection I behave like a car, center of lane, moving at the speed
of traffic. If they can't squeel their tires as much as they'd like
due to my presence, tough.

Turning Left from the right of the lane gives limited "emergency out"
space. I try to ride in such a way that I always have somewhere to go
in the event that things suddenly go wrong.

Sliding between cars is also something of a bad idea. For one thing,
it pisses them off and encourages them to not think of you as a
vehicle. For another, it places you in a bad position as again, you
have very little "out" space.

If I am in the left lane on the road for any reason, I am in the
middle of the lane. The only reasons I will be there are for turning,
or to pass a slower moving or stopped vehicle. In either case I am
moving fast enough to keep up with traffic and so may take the lane.

Quoted message said:

Few scenarios i have found #2 not work well
A. when you are slowly passing all the cars on their right, the light
could turn green - you are lane splitting and the cars start moving!!

yes, this is bad!

Quoted message said:

B. When the traffic on right (lanes where traffic goes straight) is
moving fast (>30mph) - it is down right dangerous.

again, take your lane, give yourslef more room.

Quoted message said:

i sometimes resorting to box turns when there is too much traffic going
straight that it is not easy to navigate to the left turn lane.

this is a fine option for really ugly intersections.

The only time I do option 2 is when I am rolling through an
intersection on a green, with limited traffic going straight,
significant traffic turning, and I am riding uphill such that I can't
get close to the speed of traffic. I don't like doing it, but if the
traffic is light enough I feel ok with it.

HTH

-Tim

Robert said:

line up behind the last car, but on the right
part of the lane.

There are intersections where I do this and even filter head so I'm
just behind the car that's at the front of the line. I almost never
pass the car that's at the front, though I've been tempted by some of
the depth-perception-challenged who have to wait until there's a full
mile of clearance before they make their turn.

There are some intersections, however, where keeping to the right in
the left-turn lane can be a little hazardous. If the opposing direction
also has a left-turn lane with a line of cars in it, they can block of
the view of oncoming straight-through traffic. The only way to see this
oncoming traffic is to take the turning lane. In these situations, I
generally start in the *left* tire track so I can see oncoming traffic
and move toward the right through my turn.
RFM
http://www.masoner.net/bike/

Quoted message said:

Robert said:

line up behind the last car, but on the right
part of the lane.

There are intersections where I do this and even filter head so I'm
just behind the car that's at the front of the line. I almost never
pass the car that's at the front, though I've been tempted by some of
the depth-perception-challenged who have to wait until there's a full
mile of clearance before they make their turn.

There are some intersections, however, where keeping to the right in
the left-turn lane can be a little hazardous. If the opposing direction
also has a left-turn lane with a line of cars in it, they can block of
the view of oncoming straight-through traffic. The only way to see this
oncoming traffic is to take the turning lane. In these situations, I
generally start in the *left* tire track so I can see oncoming traffic
and move toward the right through my turn.

in calif. most of the intersections have left turn signals (left Arrow).
If the left arrow is red, then you cannot make the turn. In Texas, i
have seen in most places, you yield to oncoming traffic and make the
turn and there is no concept of red arrow.

When i was a cager, i used to not like being stuck at the red left turn
signal with no oncoming traffic. But i like it for safety, now that i am
cyclist 🙂

so, basically i make the turn when the signal is green - and i am sure
that there is definitely no on-coming traffic.

Thanks a lot for all replies, i would behave more like a car and take
the left turn lane.

Also, lane splitting would mean i will be passing the stopped cars on
their right, which is not what they expect. Sometimes when i am driving,
i have seen people crazily come out of left turn lane and go straight
- in that case, i would be endup under their car 🙁

as always, i would reserve some exceptions to this methodology - like
for uphill situations etc.

thanks a lot,
ravi

Quoted message said:

RFM
http://www.masoner.net/bike/

3 Nov 2004 07:37:31 -0800,
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

(Tim Howe) said:

Sliding between cars is also something of a bad idea. For one thing,
it pisses them off and encourages them to not think of you as a
vehicle.

[censored] right in their congested fatty hearts. Too bad that they're
unable to recognise a bicycle for the superior vehicle that it is.
--
zk