Learsport

Mate I would go the specialised. Learsport is a bit dodgy. It's the kind
of bike you would pickup at Kmart 🙂

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M2cycler said:

I've posted it this on equipment, but i'll do it again here for more
relevance.
i need advice on buying a new bike.
has anyone extensively ridden either the 2004 learsport 8000 or 8500.
they both have columbus zonal tubing, and the 8500 has the addition of a
carbon wishbone seatstay. they feature 105 and ultegra respectively and
are $1500 and $2200 AU
is the fact that the frames are columbus tubing enough of a reason to
consider them decent.
one thing i noticed is that the down tube did not flatten out toward the
bottom bracket to provide stiffness, is this an issue.
please check them at www.learsport.com and give me some advice,
the other bikes on my shortlist are the 2004 specialized sport and
2003 elite.
thanks

I bought a 2003 Lear 8000 1.5 months ago. My frame is not the Columbus
tubing, but is double-butted 7005 tubing.

I don'y know for sure who makes the frames for LearSport, but by visual
comparison, I'm pretty convinced it's likely to be whoever building
Merida frames.

There is a fact for LearSport at the moment to keep in mind: They don't
seem to be a dedicated bicycle company as many others are. That means
that they probably don't do any R&D work for their bikes. The
implication is that the bike components already available in the market
are used to creat their bikes. Now it's up to the consumer to evaluate
any contender against their criteria.

As I said in a different post before, I got my Lear 8000 with WH540
wheels for $1550. That's equal to the price of the 105 groupset plus
those wheels. Anything else on that bike is, hence, a bonus, including
the frame. With my bike mechanical knowledge that's enough to build
another bike with those components, this was a sweet deal.

In addition, I have been very pleased with the bike so far, nothing that
would be specific to the brand of bike has been telegraphed yet. For a
commuting/training bike, I think I'm happy with my choice. It wouldn't
matter where you can buy a good product; KMart or elsewhere.

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nice come-back amirm, subtle and concise 🙂

Learsport frames were **** last time I looked. Perhaps that has changed.
I shall take another look though I think I would feel alot safer in the
forest if I was on a specialised

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M2cycler said:

Thanks for the advice people. Amirm, how did you manage $1550 for the
8000 plus the wh540, it is advertised at $1699.
its stuart, what made the frames SH1T in ur opinion. was it the
heaviness or just the fact it was made of noname 7005
now that the frames are triple butted columbus i am feeling that they
would be ok

It's been a while since Ive had a look at Learsport and i must admit
they look to have lifted their game. A friend of mine had one and
flogged out the bottom-bracket in no time. Having said that i'd love
to have one for the weekend and see how it handles 4 or 5 hours of
hard riding.

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its_stuart said:

nice come-back amirm, subtle and concise 🙂
Learsport frames were **** last time I looked. Perhaps that has changed.
I shall take another look though I think I would feel alot safer in the
forest if I was on a specialised

I didn't mean to get pushy with my opinion. I agree with you about
better quality and feel that we get we reputable bikes. But mate, they
ask for their premium price tags. LearSport frames, IMHO, don't get
any close to, say, a Cannondale, but the equivalent Cannondale with
pure 105 would cost at least three times more. I guess everyone may
come to a different balanced decision in money versus practicality and
quality plot.

So you may still be disappointed in LearSport frames, because I don't
know how high your standard would be. One thing is for sure, and that's
there are no free lunches. I would say, a novice rider, may realise
he/she needs to go back a few times before the bike is reasonably tuned.
In Canberra, for instance, the location of LearSport shop is not very
handy. I have had to spent some time tuning my own bike. That's why I
talk about the hardware prices (since I don't worry about the labour or
service or related trips to the bike shop).

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M2cycler said:

Thanks for the advice people. Amirm, how did you manage $1550 for the
8000 plus the wh540, it is advertised at $1699.
its stuart, what made the frames SH1T in ur opinion. was it the
heaviness or just the fact it was made of noname 7005
now that the frames are triple butted columbus i am feeling that they
would be ok

I just asked for a better price nicely, and they agreed because I
was nice! 🙂

But seriously, it is a little bit of story. First I purchased a Lear
7700 when they had their end of the season sale (that did not cover Lear
8000 and above). Then, I decided to get the Lear 8000, and that was when
the new 2004 stock were introduced. So that was the best time to haggle,
and I asked for a discount on the older stock. The changeover price
mattered to me at the time. Besides, they gave me a $100 credit, because
I did not take the seat post and the saddle.

Frankly, I was fascinated with the price of the grouppo, and did not
care really for the Columbus tubing or the fact that the new frames
were in "compact" style. I guess a $250 discount overweighed these
two features.

I have a more luxurious road bike that I built 2 years ago. That bike
hangs from my garage wall, and gets a spin every now and then when I go
for show rides with friends. It satisfies my darker side every time I
look at it, or play with it. Having that, the second bike would be more
down to Earth 😉

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thanks for the advice people, I just purchased the lear 8000 today,
red/black 52.5. my first sti bike. hooray.

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the handlebar
isnt horizontal when bike is upright, also when stem is alligned with
wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy welds. i hope i
can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about the welds. also
one of the stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to
rectify resulted in more crappiness.

took it on a about a 40km ride and thought it was pretty good, no speedo
yet as i have no more funds (anyone want to donate an unused cycle comp
to a no good cause).

we'll see how it goes with the bunch on saturday.

compared to my old bike (perigee) it has quicker steering and is a bit
lighter. also i don't feel as natural on it, hopefully that will come
over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

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M2cycler said:

thanks for the advice people, I just purchased the lear 8000 today,
red/black 52.5. my first sti bike. hooray.

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the handlebar
isnt horizontal when bike is upright, also when stem is alligned with
wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy welds. i hope i
can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about the welds. also
one of the stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to
rectify resulted in more crappiness.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

Don't they have a deal whereby you can send it back within 30 days if
you're not happy with it?

&roo

P.S. Please do keep us posted on how it goes.

"M2cycler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the

handlebar

I'd definately get this swapped. Who knows how it could have
been bent/damaaged in manufacter or shipping?

Quoted message said:

wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy welds. i hope i
can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about the welds. also

What do you mean dodgy welds? Where and what's wrong with them?

Quoted message said:

one of the stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my attempts to
rectify resulted in more crappiness.

hehe been there done that (over and over again - i never learn).
When in doubt, rip it out (or off). I've removed stickers and
badges from various bikes (and my car!) and they often make
the vehicle look nicer, either because the stickers looked [censored]
anyway, or just the way it gives cleaner lines to the bike/car.
You'll have a slightly more unique bike too. Don't be scared :-)

Quoted message said:

took it on a about a 40km ride and thought it was pretty good,
no speedo yet as i have no more funds (anyone want to donate
an unused cycle comp to a no good cause).

Where are you?

Quoted message said:

over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

We can stand them.

hippy

Andrew Swan said:

M2cycler said:

thanks for the advice people, I just purchased the lear 8000 today,
red/black 52.5. my first sti bike. hooray.

complaints i have are the slightly malformed ritchey stem (the
handlebar isnt horizontal when bike is upright, also when stem is
alligned with wheel, handlebar is not perpendicular), and the dodgy
welds. i hope i can exchange the stem but i doubt i can do much about
the welds. also one of the stickers on the fork had a ridge in it. my
attempts to rectify resulted in more crappiness.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

over time. more updates coming, if u can stand them.

Don't they have a deal whereby you can send it back within 30 days if
you're not happy with it?
&roo
P.S. Please do keep us posted on how it goes.

yeah they do have a 30 day money back or exchange warranty. i'll see
what they say. i don't really want them to have to replace the whole
bike though which is what they would have to do if i want 100 percent
looking welds. i'm sure the welds are plenty strong, just the aesthetics
are a little off. the stem should be no problem to swap.

took it for about 50km to bobbin head. performed like a bike should i
guess. honestly i can't tell ride difference between it and old chromo
bike i.e. it bounces about the same amount. getting used to the sti's,
love shifting while standing.

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M2cycler said:

yeah they do have a 30 day money back or exchange warranty. i'll see
what they say. i don't really want them to have to replace the whole
bike though which is what they would have to do if i want 100 percent
looking welds. i'm sure the welds are plenty strong, just the aesthetics
are a little off. the stem should be no problem to swap.
took it for about 50km to bobbin head. performed like a bike should i
guess. honestly i can't tell ride difference between it and old chromo
bike i.e. it bounces about the same amount. getting used to the sti's,
love shifting while standing.

That is one Bike am considering so definately post more updates.

I think the problem with the welds is that they are a bit obvious is
all. The bikes look a little rougher than your average cannondale, orbea
or specialized but they seem to represent good value.

Really I don't see how they could be that bad, they are made of and have
all the good stuff so they can't be that bad.

I would assume all they need is a little tweaking as they don't really
put much effort into fitting the bike to you.

My plan is to get one, ride the bum of it and it's it's [censored] after a
couple of weeks return it and get my money back according to their
guarantee.

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

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"thebow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think the problem with the welds is that they are a bit obvious is
all. The bikes look a little rougher than your average cannondale,

orbea

Quoted message said:

or specialized but they seem to represent good value.

Obvious welds are not generally a problem. I've seen some great
looking machines with super chunky looking welds. I think strength
has more to do with the actual bonding that has occurred - looks
really don't mean much here. Someone with more metal knowledge
will correct me I'm sure. Invisible welds may just indicate dodgy
welding that has been filed clean.

Quoted message said:

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

What's the price difference? Website?

All I can say is that I like Ultegra, but I've never ridden 105
so have no grounds for comparison. Hell, I still like downtube
shifters and remove the gears from a perfectly good 7speed! :-)

hippy

Quoted message said:

"thebow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

What's the price difference? Website?

www.learsport.com.au duh! :-P

The 8500 has carbon post and stem and a different frame
with carbon seatstays. It also has the Shimano wheels as
opposed to the more traditional Alex rims and of course
full Ultegra versus 105. $1500 versus $2200

I don't know anything about carbon stays, but a big,
paranoid guy like me worries a bit about carbon
stems and less-so carbon seatposts. :-)

Personally I like the look of the Shimano wheels but
I don't like the low spoke count (big guy paranoia
again) and I don't like the (apparently) $10 spoke
replacement cost. Proprietary gear sucks for
replacement too unless they are really well supported,
but I guess Shimano is.
I don't suppose you can test ride the 105 bike versus
the Ultegra? That would be the deciding point for me,
how the carbon stays handled and how much better
Ultegra felt, if at all.

According to cecilwalker's website the difference in
price between 105 and Ultegra is less than $200, so
I'd be hesitant to pay $700 for the "extras" you are
getting. Seems you are paying for less weight but
also, perhaps less durability?

hippy

thebow said:

...My plan is to get one, ride the bum of it and it's it's [censored] after a
couple of weeks return it and get my money back according to their
guarantee...

Just be careful of the last lines in the guarantee,
"...we will refund your money or replace the products, *except* in the following cases:...
*3. The products are damaged or worn.*"

Al

I bought a Lear 7000 a couple of months ago and love it to bits. Yes,
the welds are a bit large, but the bike overall is a joy to ride. Very
smooth.

Incidentally, I bought mine direct from the factory *via eBay*. Got it
cheaper than retail, too.

Sig.

On 1 Oct 2003 13:05:43 +0950, thebow <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

M2cycler said:

yeah they do have a 30 day money back or exchange warranty. i'll see
what they say. i don't really want them to have to replace the whole
bike though which is what they would have to do if i want 100 percent
looking welds. i'm sure the welds are plenty strong, just the aesthetics
are a little off. the stem should be no problem to swap.
took it for about 50km to bobbin head. performed like a bike should i
guess. honestly i can't tell ride difference between it and old chromo
bike i.e. it bounces about the same amount. getting used to the sti's,
love shifting while standing.

That is one Bike am considering so definately post more updates.

I think the problem with the welds is that they are a bit obvious is
all. The bikes look a little rougher than your average cannondale, orbea
or specialized but they seem to represent good value.

Really I don't see how they could be that bad, they are made of and have
all the good stuff so they can't be that bad.

I would assume all they need is a little tweaking as they don't really
put much effort into fitting the bike to you.

My plan is to get one, ride the bum of it and it's it's [censored] after a
couple of weeks return it and get my money back according to their
guarantee.

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

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Be very careful if you decide to buy via their web site. They claim to be a
Verisign scured site. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you use
the online order page all your details will be sent plain text. I emailed
them a couple of months ago about this and have had no response and checking
the web site tonight it seems they still have fixed it. DO NOT believe the
blurb about the order form being 100% secure. Very poor practice as far as
I'm concerned. I just hope this sloppiness isn't reflected in their
products.

Elguapo said:

Be very careful if you decide to buy via their web site. They claim to be a
Verisign scured site. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you use
the online order page all your details will be sent plain text. I emailed
them a couple of months ago about this and have had no response and checking
the web site tonight it seems they still have fixed it. DO NOT believe the
blurb about the order form being 100% secure. Very poor practice as far as
I'm concerned. I just hope this sloppiness isn't reflected in their
products.

Good point,
If you click to see the details you find

Name WWW.LEARSPORT.COM
Status Expired
Validity Period 04-AUG-00 - 18-AUG-01

Yet they still claim 100% security.
I wonder what VeriSign think about the misuse of the VeriSign seal!

Al.

M2cycler said:

yeah it was a toss up between the ultegra and 105 for me, i didn't think
it was worth $700 or $500 more. after all ultegra is only about $150
more than 105 looking at diff websites. definately check the bikes out.
don't forget this bike is $1500. the allez sport, a tiagra bike, is
going for $1799 at northside cyclery.
i live at north ryde
sorry about the length

Nah, it's all good info I reckon.. I had a chat to them and the guys
in Melbourne would do a 2003 8500 for $1999 which is not bad. And I
assume a similar discount for the 8000 but depends on the amount of
arm twisting.

I did the ebay thing as well and bid $1600 but this was a UK based then
and my confort level was not good. I want to be able to go pick up the
merchanidse and be able to return it if things go bad.

Is there any appriciable difference between the easton and
colombus tubing?

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Hippy said:

Quoted message said:

"thebow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Not sure whether to go lear 8000 or 8500...105 or ultegra?

What's the price difference? Website?

www.learsport.com.au duh! :-P
The 8500 has carbon post and stem and a different frame with carbon
seatstays. It also has the Shimano wheels as opposed to the more
traditional Alex rims and of course full Ultegra versus 105. $1500
versus $2200
I don't know anything about carbon stays, but a big, paranoid guy like
me worries a bit about carbon stems and less-so carbon seatposts. :-)
Personally I like the look of the Shimano wheels but I don't like the
low spoke count (big guy paranoia again) and I don't like the
(apparently) $10 spoke replacement cost. Proprietary gear sucks for
replacement too unless they are really well supported, but I guess
Shimano is. I don't suppose you can test ride the 105 bike versus the
Ultegra? That would be the deciding point for me, how the carbon stays
handled and how much better Ultegra felt, if at all.
According to cecilwalker's website the difference in price between 105
and Ultegra is less than $200, so I'd be hesitant to pay $700 for the
"extras" you are getting. Seems you are paying for less weight but also,
perhaps less durability?
hippy

Price difference is a bit less..the 105 comes with standard 32 spoke
wheels. It is a $200 upgrade to 540 so we're looking at $500 diff at
that stage.

from what I have been reading service/durability of the ultegra
stuff is something like 6000ml/105 -> 10000 - > ultegra so that is a
factor as well.

So the diff is a bit more carbon, more durability from the groupset and
add in a little for [censored] factor but not much more as it's only a
learsport :-)

I work about 15 mins from the warehouse and test ride bikes are
available so I'll have a crack at them sometime next week and make my
mind up then.

If the ultegra bike feels $700 better then I'll grab it, otherwise go
the 105 bike.

Though my LBS has an ORBEA with campy mirage for $1800 that I may be
able to screw them down a bit for.

He was telling me that groupo is the equivalent of 105 but my internet
research does not bear that out..1 strike against LBS for fibbing even
if it may be a little one...

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