I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
"Paul Coene" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Hello.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Everyone's bad back is different, but mine has responded very well to deadlifts using the technique taught in "Power To The People!" by Pavel Tsatsouline, see http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm - it's a different approach to deadlifting than most people take. Personally, I've never found a place for rows of any sort in my program and I have no plans to add them - you can be plenty strong in general without doing any sort of rowing motion.
Scroll up a couple of threads and see where someone else asked about strengthening their lats and at least two of us have suggested deadlifting.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I can agree that deadlifts were very good for my lower back, but I'll have to disagree that you need to buy a book. They're not exactly rocket surgery, and there's plenty of freely-available resources on the 'net.
If it were me, I'd dump the rows completely for now, and take a week or two off. Then start with light deadlifts, and work up the weight over a few months. Pulldowns should not be a problem. And when the back feels strong, I'd think about working light rows back in.
----------- Proton Soup
"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane
"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Paul Coene said:
Hello.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I can agree that deadlifts were very good for my lower back, but I'll have to disagree that you need to buy a book. They're not exactly rocket surgery, and there's plenty of freely-available resources on the 'net.
I did not suggest a "need to buy a book." I try to talk about my experience - the book I recommended is the book I used to learn to deadlift. Your mileage may vary and all that.
If it were me, I'd dump the rows completely for now, and take a week or two off. Then start with light deadlifts, and work up the weight over a few months. Pulldowns should not be a problem. And when the back feels strong, I'd think about working light rows back in.
----------- Proton Soup
"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
"Paul Coene" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Paul Coene said:
Hello.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
You could try bench pulls: lie face down on a (high) bench, barbell under the bench, pull up to touch the bench and lower.
But the problem with this is that if you get strong, then you risk rib injuries, and if you don't keep the bar controlled all the time (especially lowering) you will get rib injuries.
Or you could get an overhead pulley and a weight stack, which has to be cheaper than a bowflex and will do you seated pulldowns.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind of pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
----------- Proton Soup
"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind of pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
It will if you use weights that are heavy enough. Most don't, though.
Chest-supported T-bar rows are good, but not all gyms have those devices.
"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Paul Coene said:
Paul Coene said:
Hello.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind of pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
Will if you do it with decent weight and form (i.e. without the throwing the upper body about shown in the exrx clip, follow the text instructions). On the other hand you then have a fair amount of twist that your back has to be able to cope with; enough that I notice I'm having to do a bit of work to hold things in place, anyway.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have
been
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but
increasingly
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these
effectively. I
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still
find
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my
back
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to
work
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as
inclined
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but
people
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in
between.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape
separately.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of
standing
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for
that
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
(bowflex, etc).
Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind of pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
Thr problem with that exercise is that most people don't use strict form. In fact, very few. Especially when they use heavy weight. It then becomes a convoluted contortionist movement often with no eccentric component.
"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:37:37 GMT, Paul Coene Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind
of
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
Will if you do it with decent weight and form (i.e. without the
throwing the
Quoted message said:
upper body about shown in the exrx clip, follow the text
instructions). On
Quoted message said:
the other hand you then have a fair amount of twist that your back
has to be
Quoted message said:
able to cope with; enough that I notice I'm having to do a bit of
work to
Quoted message said:
hold things in place, anyway.
Exactly, hence my comment on the exercise becoming a contortionist movement. But using the heaviest weight possible often conflicts with good form execution. I call it the 'Ego Isoform.' It seems to be upregulated in a section of the population.
"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Peter Allen said:
"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:37:37 GMT, Paul Coene Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind
of
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
Will if you do it with decent weight and form (i.e. without the
throwing the
Quoted message said:
upper body about shown in the exrx clip, follow the text
instructions). On
Quoted message said:
the other hand you then have a fair amount of twist that your back
has to be
Quoted message said:
able to cope with; enough that I notice I'm having to do a bit of
work to
Quoted message said:
hold things in place, anyway.
Exactly, hence my comment on the exercise becoming a contortionist movement. But using the heaviest weight possible often conflicts with good form execution. I call it the 'Ego Isoform.' It seems to be upregulated in a section of the population.
When is that not true?
At least in this case, if you have your knees locked out straight, then you can look in a mirror and watch your head and other shoulder staying still. If they are, then any form errors at least aren't cheating the weight up.
"Paul Coene" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Paul Coene said:
Hello.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
I understood your question fine the first time. Rows are, for some people, just plain hard on the back. Elzi mentions why - it's hard to keep good form and somehow doing them with a light enough weight doesn't always translate into gradually improving form - or you need a heavier weight for your lats than your back can handle - or whatever, rows aren't working for you, so you want to try something else - that's good.
Deadlifts could be good for you - yes, they will work your back while also working your lats, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's possible that your back won't like deadlifts, either, but they're such a great exercise, I think it's worth the effort to give them a try.
"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Peter Allen said:
"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:37:37 GMT, Paul Coene > Pullups/chinups. If you're not strong enough for that, some kind
of
Quoted message said:
> pulldown device will have to do. You might also be able to do a > one-armed bent-over dumbell row with one arm on a bench to take the > stress off the back. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html > But it's probably not going to hit the lats very hard.
Will if you do it with decent weight and form (i.e. without the
throwing the
Quoted message said:
upper body about shown in the exrx clip, follow the text
instructions). On
Quoted message said:
the other hand you then have a fair amount of twist that your back
has to be
Quoted message said:
able to cope with; enough that I notice I'm having to do a bit of
work to
Quoted message said:
hold things in place, anyway.
Exactly, hence my comment on the exercise becoming a contortionist movement. But using the heaviest weight possible often conflicts with good form execution. I call it the 'Ego Isoform.' It seems to be upregulated in a section of the population.
When is that not true?
Plenty of times. I saw several examples this evening at the gym. (I train with some intelligent and self-secure powerlifters)
Quoted message said:
At least in this case, if you have your knees locked out straight, then you can look in a mirror and watch your head and other shoulder staying still. If they are, then any form errors at least aren't cheating the weight up.
But if you don't really see your shoulders move, does that mean they don't move? Theory of Relative Training
(and post-WO punchiness)
------------------------------ Reality is an illusion created by an intelligence deficiency.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
Chin ups, one arm dumbbell rows, you can buy a plate loaded (you use your own plates to weight it) lat pulldown machine with a low pulley for seated rows for less than the price of a bowflex...
-- spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it.
Chinups? Pullups? Pulldowns?
Quoted message said:
, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
Disregard any advice from anyone who would advise you to get a bowflex.
"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Peter Allen said:
"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Exactly, hence my comment on the exercise becoming a contortionist movement. But using the heaviest weight possible often conflicts with good form execution. I call it the 'Ego Isoform.' It seems to be upregulated in a section of the population.
When is that not true?
Plenty of times. I saw several examples this evening at the gym. (I train with some intelligent and self-secure powerlifters)
I meant things can always be done with poor form, not everyone does some things with poor form...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
At least in this case, if you have your knees locked out straight, then you can look in a mirror and watch your head and other shoulder staying still. If they are, then any form errors at least aren't cheating the weight up.
But if you don't really see your shoulders move, does that mean they don't move? Theory of Relative Training
Well, it does if there's something behind you which you can see in the mirror and wrt which your shoulder and head can be seen to be fixed.
all lifts are both good and bad lifts until observed. Theory of Quantum Training.
I'm getting back into working out more (3 times a week). I have been doing inclined rows and dumbell rows to work my lats, but increasingly my chronically bad back is preventing me from doing these effectively. I have added back strengthening exercises to my regimen, but I still find one set of inclined rows to be uncomfortable, though I do arch my back slightly to maintain good form.
I'd like to look into an option where I can do seated pulldowns to work my lats. This type of exervise will work my lats as well as inclined rows, yes?
Can anyone suggest some equipment to allow me to add this? I was thinking of plopping a bowflex next to my bench and curl bar, but people here seems to believe in free weights or bowflex and nothing in between.
Thanks in advance.
I think people are misunderstanding my question. I want to know if people can recommend an exercise for my lats that won't hurt my back while I am doing it. I'll address getting my back in shape separately. The pulldowns seem to be done well while seated, instead of standing inclined, so I was looking for maybe some advice on equipment for that (bowflex, etc).
"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Peter Allen said:
"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:25:07 -0000, Peter Allen wrote: >"elzinator" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Exactly, hence my comment on the exercise becoming a
contortionist
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>> movement. But using the heaviest weight possible often conflicts
with
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>> good form execution. I call it the 'Ego Isoform.' It seems to be >> upregulated in a section of the population. > >When is that not true?
Plenty of times. I saw several examples this evening at the gym. (I train with some intelligent and self-secure powerlifters)
I meant things can always be done with poor form, not everyone does
some
Quoted message said:
things with poor form...
I misinterpreted. Scuse'
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>At least in this case, if you have your knees locked out straight,
then
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>you >can look in a mirror and watch your head and other shoulder staying
still.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>If they are, then any form errors at least aren't cheating the
weight up.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
But if you don't really see your shoulders move, does that mean
they
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
don't move? Theory of Relative Training
Well, it does if there's something behind you which you can see in
the
Quoted message said:
mirror and wrt which your shoulder and head can be seen to be fixed.
all lifts are both good and bad lifts until observed. Theory of Quantum Training.
