LASIK?

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:FD7Qc.203800$a24.18359@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Ui4Qc.208483$IQ4.32045@attbi_s02

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"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[...]

Quoted message said:

> A friend of mine had it done following the good advice you posted.
> She can't drive at night now because lights cause her to see halos
> around everything.

A good friend of mine has had a similar experience and has a large
lawsuit pending.

On what grounds? This is a known side effect (although it usually eases

or

Quoted message said:

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even disappears after some time). It's not like any of this is new or
anything.

The "halo-ing" problem. It was not so well known a few years ago that

people

Quoted message said:

with larger-than-normal pupils, or otherwise different eyeball geometries
wouldn't fare so well given the maximum size of the area that was (could

be)

Quoted message said:

reshaped. My friend's visual artifacts are quite severe and apparently

further

Quoted message said:

corrections are not possible. He has to use drops to drive at night to
constrict his pupils, which is like wearing sunglasses. The suit is based

on

Quoted message said:

the claim that the doc should have known better, even at that time.

The halo-ing effect has been known for a long time, and was probably
mentioned to your friend prior to the surgery. I have it myself, but not
enough to require any special treatment. There are several treatments to
reduce it, and several new surgical options that are being explored.

FWIW, it sounds like your friend is just trying to gouge the doctor to make
some money (Lawyer Lotto, American Style). That's one reason the surgery is
expensive as it is...the doc's yearly liability insurance is probably in 6
figures thanks to sue-happy patients and their lawyers.

GG

"GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:FD7Qc.203800$a24.18359@attbi_s03...

[...]

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Quoted message said:

The "halo-ing" problem. It was not so well known a few years ago
that people with larger-than-normal pupils, or otherwise different
eyeball geometries wouldn't fare so well given the maximum size of
the area that was (could be) reshaped. My friend's visual artifacts
are quite severe and apparently further corrections are not
possible. He has to use drops to drive at night to constrict his
pupils, which is like wearing sunglasses. The suit is based on the
claim that the doc should have known better, even at that time.

The halo-ing effect has been known for a long time, and was probably

It certainly has. Laser corrective surgery of this type has been around for
almost a generation and the halo effect is well known (if unwelcome).

Quoted message said:

mentioned to your friend prior to the surgery. I have it myself, but
not enough to require any special treatment. There are several
treatments to reduce it, and several new surgical options that are
being explored.

Quite so.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article said:

I have no problems wearing glasses, though I don't like contacts,
but I'd like to wear the rudy/oakley style sunglasses when cycling.
Has anyone had the LASIK thing? How did it go?

Mike

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and replies. I guess I'm
unwilling to roll the dice for LASIK. So my next alternatives
are contacts, sunglasses with optical inserts, or sunglasses
with the perscription ground into the lens.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

Mike

"GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:FD7Qc.203800$a24.18359@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Ui4Qc.208483$IQ4.32045@attbi_s02
> "Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...

[...]

>> A friend of mine had it done following the good advice you posted.
>> She can't drive at night now because lights cause her to see halos
>> around everything.
>
> A good friend of mine has had a similar experience and has a large
> lawsuit pending.

On what grounds? This is a known side effect (although it usually eases

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

even disappears after some time). It's not like any of this is new or
anything.

The "halo-ing" problem. It was not so well known a few years ago that

people

Quoted message said:

with larger-than-normal pupils, or otherwise different eyeball geometries
wouldn't fare so well given the maximum size of the area that was (could

be)

Quoted message said:

reshaped. My friend's visual artifacts are quite severe and apparently

further

Quoted message said:

corrections are not possible. He has to use drops to drive at night to
constrict his pupils, which is like wearing sunglasses. The suit is based

on

Quoted message said:

the claim that the doc should have known better, even at that time.

The halo-ing effect has been known for a long time, and was probably
mentioned to your friend prior to the surgery. I have it myself, but not
enough to require any special treatment. There are several treatments to
reduce it, and several new surgical options that are being explored.

My friend has quite severe artifacts, much more than nuisance level. He has
explored options for correction, both in the US and abroad. He has consulted
experts on both coasts (with exams). So far, he's screwed.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, it sounds like your friend is just trying to gouge the doctor to make
some money (Lawyer Lotto, American Style). That's one reason the surgery is
expensive as it is...the doc's yearly liability insurance is probably in 6
figures thanks to sue-happy patients and their lawyers.

Thanks for the random slam, I'm sure your friends are money-grubbing,
scum-suckers, too. FWIW, the guy is independently wealthy (founded & sold a
major computer supply company). His goal is to keep this bad doc from blinding
any other people.

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Cp9Qc.87803$eM2.31850@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

"GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:FD7Qc.203800$a24.18359@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> news:Ui4Qc.208483$IQ4.32045@attbi_s02
> > "Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:[email hidden]...
>
> [...]
>
> >> A friend of mine had it done following the good advice you

posted.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> She can't drive at night now because lights cause her to see

halos

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >> around everything.
> >
> > A good friend of mine has had a similar experience and has a large
> > lawsuit pending.
>
> On what grounds? This is a known side effect (although it usually

eases

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or

Quoted message said:

> even disappears after some time). It's not like any of this is new

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> anything.

The "halo-ing" problem. It was not so well known a few years ago that

people

Quoted message said:

with larger-than-normal pupils, or otherwise different eyeball

geometries

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wouldn't fare so well given the maximum size of the area that was

(could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be)

Quoted message said:

reshaped. My friend's visual artifacts are quite severe and apparently

further

Quoted message said:

corrections are not possible. He has to use drops to drive at night to
constrict his pupils, which is like wearing sunglasses. The suit is

based

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

the claim that the doc should have known better, even at that time.

The halo-ing effect has been known for a long time, and was probably
mentioned to your friend prior to the surgery. I have it myself, but

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

enough to require any special treatment. There are several treatments

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

reduce it, and several new surgical options that are being explored.

My friend has quite severe artifacts, much more than nuisance level. He

has

Quoted message said:

explored options for correction, both in the US and abroad. He has

consulted

Quoted message said:

experts on both coasts (with exams). So far, he's screwed.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, it sounds like your friend is just trying to gouge the doctor to

make

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some money (Lawyer Lotto, American Style). That's one reason the

surgery is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

expensive as it is...the doc's yearly liability insurance is probably in

6

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

figures thanks to sue-happy patients and their lawyers.

Thanks for the random slam, I'm sure your friends are money-grubbing,
scum-suckers, too. FWIW, the guy is independently wealthy (founded & sold

a

Quoted message said:

major computer supply company). His goal is to keep this bad doc from

blinding

Quoted message said:

any other people.

Unless the doc was negligent (e.g., ignored a thin cornea and operated
anyway, or mis-programmed the machine), I don't see what value can come from
the suit (besides the $$ to your friend and his lawyer).

If the doc followed standard protocol and exercised due diligence in the
procedure, how is he a "bad doc"? The protocols for this and other
procedures change all the time - if your friend had it done several years
ago, he might simply be unlucky...it's only recently that they have been
able to predict the severity of the halo effect prior to the surgery.

GG

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have no problems wearing glasses, though I don't like contacts,
but I'd like to wear the rudy/oakley style sunglasses when cycling.
Has anyone had the LASIK thing? How did it go?

You can get inserts or get custom lenses for the sunglasses you mention.
If that is the only reason for you to get LASIK, then don't.
------------
Alex

"GaryG" <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote

Quoted message said:

If the doc followed standard protocol and exercised due diligence in the
procedure, how is he a "bad doc"? The protocols for this and other
procedures change all the time - if your friend had it done several years
ago, he might simply be unlucky...it's only recently that they have been
able to predict the severity of the halo effect prior to the surgery.

Not true, that's the whole point of the lawsuit.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Prescription inserts are just not an option for those of us who need
major correction.

I'm something like -5.50/ -6.00, and astigmatic (both eyes, different
axes!) There are *no* prescription inserts that would serve me, to my
knowledge. Wraparound style shades are not even remote possibilities.

I'm not quite as bad -4.75 -5.00 also with astigmatism and I use a
pair of Bolle with inserts. Not ideal, but they work well enough for me.
I too am considering Lasik, but getting sunglasses is a very minor
consideration.

Quoted message said:

I'd do contacts, but I'm just too damn squeamish. I don't like
sticking things into my eye & the additional hassle of caring for
them. Glasses are cheap & cheerful, for me anyway.

I can stick lenses in my eye, not a problem. Keeping them clean and
pulling them out every day is a hassle.
--------------
Alex

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Actually, I'm around -7 (both eyes, plus astigmatism) myself. I find
that I cannot comfortably wear contacts (I've tried just about every
variant under the sun).

I do sometimes simply leave the glasses at home so I can wear
sunglasses. I do not have trouble seeing large objects, such as cars,
or traffic signs and lights. I do occassionally miss imperfections in
the pavement, but I've had no accidents. To me, the biggest downside of
leaving the glasses at home is that I miss some of the beauty I'd
otherwise see on my ride (deer, squirrels, etc).

I'm at -4.75 -5.00 and I would never, ever consider riding without glasses.
-------------
Alex

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I can stick lenses in my eye, not a problem. Keeping them clean and
pulling them out every day is a hassle.
--------------
Alex

Exactly. Too much hassle. That's why I gave up contacts after two lengthy
trials.

Pete

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Actually, I'm around -7 (both eyes, plus astigmatism) myself. I find
that I cannot comfortably wear contacts (I've tried just about every
variant under the sun).

I do sometimes simply leave the glasses at home so I can wear
sunglasses. I do not have trouble seeing large objects, such as cars,
or traffic signs and lights. I do occassionally miss imperfections in
the pavement, but I've had no accidents. To me, the biggest downside of
leaving the glasses at home is that I miss some of the beauty I'd
otherwise see on my ride (deer, squirrels, etc).

I'm at -4.75 -5.00 and I would never, ever consider riding without glasses.
-------------
Alex

Have you tried it? Seriously. Find a nice quiet park and go for a ride
sans glasses. Unless your astigmatism is way worse than mine, you'll
find it not to be a problem. You won't be able to identify the make and
model of car approaching you until it's very close, but you won't have
any trouble realizing that a car is approaching you.

As I previously noted, I run a -7 (both eyes) with astigmatism - an
eagle I am not.

Give it a shot in an appropriate setting before you write it off. If
you're really nervous about it, bring along a seeing-eyed friend.

Jeff

Mike said:

In article said:

I have no problems wearing glasses, though I don't like contacts,
but I'd like to wear the rudy/oakley style sunglasses when cycling.
Has anyone had the LASIK thing? How did it go?

Mike

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and replies. I guess I'm
unwilling to roll the dice for LASIK. So my next alternatives
are contacts, sunglasses with optical inserts, or sunglasses
with the perscription ground into the lens.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

Mike

IF you get sunglasses with prescription lenses, DO NOT get wrap-around
style sunglasses. I have a pair of wrap-arounds with prescription
lenses (and they are only mildly wrap-around). Because of the
wrap-around nature of the specs, the lenses distort the world somewhat.
Quite an unpleasant sensation. I wear the specs only when absolutely
necessary.

Do make a point to ask the optician about it before you place an order.
Ideally, have a witness present, lest you throw away your money.

Jeff

"Mike" wrote

Quoted message said:

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and replies. I guess I'm
unwilling to roll the dice for LASIK. So my next alternatives
are contacts, sunglasses with optical inserts, or sunglasses
with the perscription ground into the lens.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

Mike

I've been using Bolle glacier glasses with prescription lenses, available
from Black Diamond (www.bdel.com). This is a climbing/mountaineering
equipment maker in Salt Lake City, they have sell Bolle and Julbo sunglasses
frames w/ prescription lenses. I've been getting Bolle frames w/ my
prescription from them since the mid '80s, they come with a really nice dark
orange tint that enhances contrast so you can still see when the light goes
flat. I take off the side shields and they do a really nice job of keeping
my eyes from tearing up on fast descents. Definitely worth a look, IMHO.
--
mark

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have no problems wearing glasses, though I don't like contacts,
but I'd like to wear the rudy/oakley style sunglasses when cycling.
Has anyone had the LASIK thing? How did it go?

You can get inserts or get custom lenses for the sunglasses you mention.
If that is the only reason for you to get LASIK, then don't.

I just got prescription lens Bolle glasses that are the first wraparound
sunglasses I've seen available for someone like me (bificals!). So far,
I'm impressed. I certainly would not go for LASIC as an alternative.
This is cheaper, and no one is cutting into my eyeballs.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a
_`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
(_)/ (_) |

Mike said:

are contacts, sunglasses with optical inserts, or sunglasses
with the perscription ground into the lens.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

My eyeglass guy kept me in mind when, a couple years ago, I mentioned
I wanted I wanted wraparound glasses. I came in for my eye exam and he
showed me these Bolle glasses. Works great for me. The extremes are not,
of course, ground to my prescription, but they still block the wind very
well and let me see. I think there are too many problems with inserts
(they do fog up, and you can't get at the surface).

Mine are also polarized, which I like but others may not. I believe they
have some that are non-polarized. Check them out.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

Jeff Williams said:

Mike said:

In article said:

I have no problems wearing glasses, though I don't like contacts,
but I'd like to wear the rudy/oakley style sunglasses when cycling.
Has anyone had the LASIK thing? How did it go?

Mike

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and replies. I guess I'm
unwilling to roll the dice for LASIK. So my next alternatives
are contacts, sunglasses with optical inserts, or sunglasses
with the perscription ground into the lens.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

Mike

IF you get sunglasses with prescription lenses, DO NOT get wrap-around
style sunglasses. I have a pair of wrap-arounds with prescription
lenses (and they are only mildly wrap-around). Because of the
wrap-around nature of the specs, the lenses distort the world somewhat.
Quite an unpleasant sensation. I wear the specs only when absolutely
necessary.

YMMV, of course, but this was not my experience. Since mine are only
prescription in the middle, the distortion is reduced, though the
peripheral vision is fuzzy like it would be with non-wraparound lenses.
The point, though, is to get shielded from the wind, and for that they are
great.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

Mike said:

I have tried the rudys and oakleys... both seem a little tight; the
oakleys seem tighter than the rudys. Does anyone remember the
film _Space Cowboys_? Donald Sutherland's character was given a
pair of perscription ground glasses that resembled oakleys. That
would be nice to have (three: clear, medium, and dark lenses).

Mine are something like his. Full-frame, but thin frames, and they are
full-blown wraparound (Bolle). Not cheap, of course, but certainly
cheaper than LASIC and they may just last longer.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Accept risk. Accept responsibility. Put a lawyer out of
_`\(,_ | business.
(_)/ (_) |

Jeff Williams said:

Quoted message said:

Have you tried it? Seriously. Find a nice quiet park and go for a ride
sans glasses. Unless your astigmatism is way worse than mine, you'll
find it not to be a problem. You won't be able to identify the make and
model of car approaching you until it's very close, but you won't have
any trouble realizing that a car is approaching you.

As I previously noted, I run a -7 (both eyes) with astigmatism - an
eagle I am not.

Give it a shot in an appropriate setting before you write it off. If
you're really nervous about it, bring along a seeing-eyed friend.

Jeff

Why would you take the risk? It has got to effect your depth
perception. No good can come of this. I am a -4.5, -6 and I would be
unsafe without my glasses.
Whatever benefit or enjoyment you get out of this, is not worth the
potential consequences.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Mike <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

I just picked up a pair of RX oakleys (twentys). I am very
happy with them. Not super wrap around, but more curve than
'inside' glasses. There is a tiny ammount of distortion at the
far left of the right lens, but I only notice that
if I close my left eye and look to the far to the
left as possible. It is really not an issue.

My only other complaint is that I get a small ammount of eyelash
rub if I wear them really close to my face, so I just don't do that.

There is a limit on how strong a perscription they can put in,
I'm real close to the limit of +3.00 on this model, but I think
that varies from model to model. I think these limits are there
to prevent severe distortion issues.

Not cheap. $360 for the frames and lenses (mine are polarized,
so that ads some to the price. Cheaper than surgery though :-)

Advantages: easy to clean, less likely to fog, and better fit
than some of the inserts I have seen for other models.
Disadvantages: can't change lenses, and if I break or
scratch a lens, well, I don't want to think about that.

Jack

"Jack Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on these alternatives? Which
manufacturers offer the custom grinding of lenses?

I just picked up a pair of RX oakleys (twentys). I am very
happy with them. Not super wrap around, but more curve than
'inside' glasses. There is a tiny ammount of distortion at the
far left of the right lens, but I only notice that
if I close my left eye and look to the far to the
left as possible. It is really not an issue.

My only other complaint is that I get a small ammount of eyelash
rub if I wear them really close to my face, so I just don't do that.

There is a limit on how strong a perscription they can put in,
I'm real close to the limit of +3.00 on this model, but I think
that varies from model to model. I think these limits are there
to prevent severe distortion issues.

Not cheap. $360 for the frames and lenses (mine are polarized,
so that ads some to the price.
Cheaper than surgery though :-)

Not over the long term. Compared to the costs for exams, prescriptions,
contacts/glasses, I suspect LASIK would pay for itself within 10 years or
so. For me however, the quality of life improvements make the cost savings
a minor issue.

GG

Quoted message said:

Advantages: easy to clean, less likely to fog, and better fit
than some of the inserts I have seen for other models.
Disadvantages: can't change lenses, and if I break or
scratch a lens, well, I don't want to think about that.

Jack