Laserlite - 1st impressions

Jim Ford said:

3) I'm a bit dissapointed to find that it's a 'outer first', rather than an
'inner first' pitch (like the Argos and TNF Tadpole). This results in a flappy
inner, and IMHO a less stable pitch - _all_ the ridgidity coming from the
outer, rather than both the outer and inner.

One man's poison, etc. I've long regarded inner-first pitch as a Work
Of Stan because it makes putting a tent up in the rain (if you can
imagine having to do such a thing in the UK...) is a major PITA. It
also means the inner can't be taken for extra party space in poor
weather, and it removes the facility to pack everything except the tent
outer in the dry before you strike camp.
I'm personally Really Pleased that Terra Nova have finally broken their
attachment to inner first pitches, and also to PU coatings on fly inners
just so you can put unneeded seam taping on at a cost in fabric
strength. The Laserlite finally does the two things that were a major
barrier to me buying their tents in the past.

Quoted message said:

6) Again probably to keep the weight down, there's no storm flap over the zip.

Hurrah! My Spacepacker has 4 doors and no stormflpas over the door
zips, and I've never had a problem with it. OTOH my Tarra has flaps
over both doors and they're /always/ getting caught in the zips, so I'm
quite happy with that as a feature.

Quoted message said:

7) The carbon fibre pegs I've seen complaints about, seem fine to me. You
can hardly feel them in your hand but are immensely strong.

I don't know much about the specific construction, but carbon fibre can
be prone to stress fracturing so how they'd stand up to repeated use in
stony ground is something I'd want to keep an eye on. But of course
there's carbon fibre and there's carbon fibre.

Quoted message said:

8) There's _no_ way it's a 2 person tent! Space remaining when I'm in it is
probably just enough for a rucksac.

But you're 6'4". Not everyone is!

Quoted message said:

The Argos tent, though heavier is much longer and not a lot smaller inside.
I feel the Argos tent is much stronger

Define "stronger"... I would think that Terra Nova's fabric probably
has a considerably better tear strength, for example.

Quoted message said:

high winds. Where weight is not a prime consideration, don't bother with the
Laserlight - stick with the Argos.

But shirley the whole point of the Laserlite is for when weight /is/ a
prime consideration! Otherwise TN would be happy to sell you something
heavier, stronger and roomier.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Jim Ford said:

3) I'm a bit dissapointed to find that it's a 'outer first', rather
than an
'inner first' pitch (like the Argos and TNF Tadpole). This results in
a flappy
inner, and IMHO a less stable pitch - _all_ the ridgidity coming from the
outer, rather than both the outer and inner.

One man's poison, etc. I've long regarded inner-first pitch as a Work
Of Stan because it makes putting a tent up in the rain (if you can
imagine having to do such a thing in the UK...) is a major PITA. It
also means the inner can't be taken for extra party space in poor
weather, and it removes the facility to pack everything except the tent
outer in the dry before you strike camp.
I'm personally Really Pleased that Terra Nova have finally broken their
attachment to inner first pitches, and also to PU coatings on fly inners
just so you can put unneeded seam taping on at a cost in fabric
strength. The Laserlite finally does the two things that were a major
barrier to me buying their tents in the past.

<snip>
I'd go along with that. I was in the lakes last week when torrential
rain (followed by a SCARY thunderstorm) arrived. I had my Laser flysheet
up in about 5 minutes - it only needs its single pole plus 2 pegs to be
stable enough - got self and gear inside to wait for a lull before
nipping out and putting the rest of the pegs in and putting the inner
up. I've not tried it in high winds but it withstood some very heavy
rain ok. The Laser has loads of room inside and in the porch, I did
consider getting a Laserlite but decided the extra weight for the Laser
was worth it for the extra space.
My other tent is a JetPacker Plus which is also flysheet first but takes
longer to put up and needs more pegs to be stable. It also has two brass
tipped aluminium poles which stick up into the sky rather like lightning
conductors - I was very glad the Laser doesn't have them...
Tony

I'll go along with Peter, here. The outer pitching is also best for me.
Also, if the weather's really warm, why take the inner? Just pitch the
outer and sleep in it. I've never been able to do that in my Vango Hydra.

Jhimmy.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Ford wrote:

Quoted message said:

One man's poison, etc. I've long regarded inner-first pitch as a Work
Of Stan because it makes putting a tent up in the rain (if you can
imagine having to do such a thing in the UK...) is a major PITA. It
also means the inner can't be taken for extra party space in poor
weather, and it removes the facility to pack everything except the tent
outer in the dry before you strike camp.

Quoted message said:

rain ok. The Laser has loads of room inside and in the porch, I did
consider getting a Laserlite but decided the extra weight for the Laser
was worth it for the extra space.

Speaking of which would you mind weighing it for us and reporting back
here if it's not too much bother ?

Thanks,

--
Boo

Jhimmy said:

I'll go along with Peter, here. The outer pitching is also best for me.
Also, if the weather's really warm, why take the inner? Just pitch the
outer and sleep in it.

I've slept in just the inner of an inner first Terra Nova. I don't
think I'd like to try just sleeping under just a fly anywhere where
there are biting beasties about.

I've never had a problem with the inner first style. You learn how to
pitch the inner under the cover of the outer lying losely over the
inner.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as Jhimmy <[email hidden]> descended on a shaft
* of golden sunlight, and announced:

Quoted message said:

I'll go along with Peter, here. The outer pitching is also best for me.
Also, if the weather's really warm, why take the inner? Just pitch the
outer and sleep in it. I've never been able to do that in my Vango Hydra.

The tent came with the inner already attached to the outer. The inner can be
detached, but it seems a bit fiddly. For a start, there are cords tied
between the inner ends and the outer that would need to be tied and untied
each time (though I suppose I could put hooks on).

Regards: Jim Ford

* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as Phil Cook <[email hidden]>
* descended on a shaft of golden sunlight, and announced:

Quoted message said:

I've slept in just the inner of an inner first Terra Nova. I don't
think I'd like to try just sleeping under just a fly anywhere where
there are biting beasties about.

Same here!

Quoted message said:

I've never had a problem with the inner first style. You learn how to
pitch the inner under the cover of the outer lying losely over the
inner.

I've always either waited for the weather to slacken, or pitched real fast
and mopped up any water inside after! I'm still convinced that having both
the inner and outer tensioned over the poles - as with an outer first, gives
a much more stable pitch.

REgards: Jim Ford

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Jhimmy" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I'll go along with Peter, here. The outer pitching is also best for me.
Also, if the weather's really warm, why take the inner? Just pitch the
outer and sleep in it. I've never been able to do that in my Vango Hydra.

My Blacks Mountain Tent (1970) was intended as a single skin tent. I
only got the flysheet because it leaked rather badly whenever it rained.
I suppose I could use the flysheet on its own but I have never bothered
but then I have never bothered to pitch the flysheet first however bad
the weather and only once have I taken the inner down first.

My lightweight tent (unused these many years) was an Ultimate U1-B
bought within a year of the Mountain Tent. That was joined at the ridge
so there was no possibility of anything other than just pitching the
tent. Coming back on the train from Scotland in 1971 it spent most of
the time in the luggage rack dripping so it obviously retained a good
bit of water when packed in the rain.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times

"Boo" <boo@spam_me_no_spam.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rain ok. The Laser has loads of room inside and in the porch, I did
consider getting a Laserlite but decided the extra weight for the Laser
was worth it for the extra space.

Speaking of which would you mind weighing it for us and reporting back
here if it's not too much bother ?

My Laser weighs 1333 grams (weighed on Post Office scales so should be
accurate) with everything except the big instruction booklet that came with
it. 43 grams over spec is ok in my books, especially compared to my
Thermarest Ultralite 3/4 which is supposed to weigh 450g but actually weighs
512g (inc. the 19g stuffsack).

I'll be doing more detailed weighing of the different parts when time
allows.

Cheers, Jiffy

Boo said:

Quoted message said:

rain ok. The Laser has loads of room inside and in the porch, I did
consider getting a Laserlite but decided the extra weight for the
Laser was worth it for the extra space.

Speaking of which would you mind weighing it for us and reporting back
here if it's not too much bother ?

Thanks,

No bother - the inner weighs 500g, the flysheet+pegs weighs 570g, the
poles 220g. Makes a total of 1290g which I think is what the
manufacturer's claim. (I've grouped them like this as that's how I pack
them)
'Poles' by the way consists of an aluminium pole which goes over the
middle of the fly and two short carbon fibre poles which go at each end
between fly and inner.
Tony

Phil Cook said:

I've slept in just the inner of an inner first Terra Nova. I don't
think I'd like to try just sleeping under just a fly anywhere where
there are biting beasties about.

Been there, done that, not really a problem. If the fly goes down to
the ground (it does on all of my tents) then they still can't get in easily.

Quoted message said:

I've never had a problem with the inner first style. You learn how to
pitch the inner under the cover of the outer lying losely over the
inner.

With fly first or all in one you don't have to, though. And this
changes from easier to /significantly/ easier if it's blowing as well as
raining. And taking it down is much, much easier too.

There aren't any particular advantages to an inner first pitch that
spring to mind, so why make life harder than you have to? Tents like
the Tarra demonstrate you can have a tent that's just as strong, yet
easier to pitch and with more flexible living arrangements.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

No bother - the inner weighs 500g, the flysheet+pegs weighs 570g, the
poles 220g. Makes a total of 1290g which I think is what the
manufacturer's claim. (I've grouped them like this as that's how I pack
them)

I take it your figure does not include stuffsacks? That'll probably be where
my extra 43g comes from.

Cheers, Jiffy

Jiffy said:

Quoted message said:

No bother - the inner weighs 500g, the flysheet+pegs weighs 570g, the
poles 220g. Makes a total of 1290g which I think is what the
manufacturer's claim. (I've grouped them like this as that's how I pack
them)

I take it your figure does not include stuffsacks? That'll probably be where
my extra 43g comes from.

Cheers, Jiffy

yes that's right - just the tent bits on their own.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rain ok. The Laser has loads of room inside and in the porch, I did
consider getting a Laserlite but decided the extra weight for the Laser
was worth it for the extra space.

Speaking of which would you mind weighing it for us and reporting back
here if it's not too much bother ?

My Laser weighs 1333 grams (weighed on Post Office scales so should be
accurate) with everything except the big instruction booklet that came with
it. 43 grams over spec is ok in my books, especially compared to my

Thanks, not very much heavier than the LaserLite then. Is it big
enough to realistically sleep two ?

--
Boo

Quoted message said:

No bother - the inner weighs 500g, the flysheet+pegs weighs 570g, the
poles 220g. Makes a total of 1290g which I think is what the
manufacturer's claim. (I've grouped them like this as that's how I pack
them)

Right, pretty much the same as Jiffys weighes if you make a reasonable
allowance for the stuff sack etc.

Quoted message said:

'Poles' by the way consists of an aluminium pole which goes over the
middle of the fly and two short carbon fibre poles which go at each end
between fly and inner.

It sounsd like it's basicall the same design as the LaserLite just a bit
bigger.

--
Boo

Boo said:

Thanks, not very much heavier than the LaserLite then. Is it big
enough to realistically sleep two ?

I don't know as I haven't seen one, but the question (and/or answer)
needs qualification. Sleeping two medium sized people for a night is
very different to sleeping the same people for a week with regular
cooking, or two large people, etc.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:48:00 +0100, Boo <boo@spam_me_no_spam.net>

Quoted message said:

Thanks, not very much heavier than the LaserLite then. Is it big
enough to realistically sleep two ?

The Laser I had on order arrived toward the end of last week, but it
wasn't until yesterday that I was able to confidently get out of my
scuba gear and try and put it up. I reckon it would sleep two, it
would be cosy but eminently feasible, there's more than enough length,
the width would accomodate two sleeping head-to-toe... and poss on
more of a diagonal than you'd imagine if you were putting cut-out
sleepy people on your scale-drawing.

I have a question, tho', that existing Laser owners might be able to
help me with. The fly of the Laserlite clearly touches the ground all
around whilst, when I pitched my Laser it did not (and would not),
there's a clearance at each end. I've hunted around for photos and
this one shows what I mean quite clearly:

http://www.outdoorfocus.co.uk/low_alloy_tents/Terra_Nova/Terra_Nova_Laser_info.htm

My first thought was that I'd pitched it wrong (or maybe my lawn is
the wrong shape ;-) But, since the height of the fly at that point is
"forced" by the internal pole giving the height to the inner tent at
the ends (sides?) and seeing the above photo, I wondered if it was a
feature of the design? This would be the case if the short pole for
the Laser was longer than that of the Laserlite. This would give
increased head room in the "eaves" (plus more ventilation) and prehaps
is another change over the Laserlite to make the Laser a two-man tent.

Anyone find the same with the fly being raised from the ground, or is
it me ;-)

First impressions of the Laser? Roomy for one ;-) Inner can be left
attached (it arrived this way ;-) Like the inner doorway opening the
full length of the tent and the fly can be opened on either side (or
both) giving greater flexibility if the wind shifts, etc.... and
wonderfully light!! This tent is as light as a very light thing :-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

SteveO said:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:48:00 +0100, Boo <boo@spam_me_no_spam.net>

Quoted message said:

Thanks, not very much heavier than the LaserLite then. Is it big
enough to realistically sleep two ?

The Laser I had on order arrived toward the end of last week, but it
wasn't until yesterday that I was able to confidently get out of my
scuba gear and try and put it up. I reckon it would sleep two, it
would be cosy but eminently feasible, there's more than enough length,
the width would accomodate two sleeping head-to-toe... and poss on
more of a diagonal than you'd imagine if you were putting cut-out
sleepy people on your scale-drawing.

I have a question, tho', that existing Laser owners might be able to
help me with. The fly of the Laserlite clearly touches the ground all
around whilst, when I pitched my Laser it did not (and would not),
there's a clearance at each end. I've hunted around for photos and
this one shows what I mean quite clearly:

http://www.outdoorfocus.co.uk/low_alloy_tents/Terra_Nova/Terra_Nova_Laser_info.htm

My first thought was that I'd pitched it wrong (or maybe my lawn is
the wrong shape ;-) But, since the height of the fly at that point is
"forced" by the internal pole giving the height to the inner tent at
the ends (sides?) and seeing the above photo, I wondered if it was a
feature of the design? This would be the case if the short pole for
the Laser was longer than that of the Laserlite. This would give
increased head room in the "eaves" (plus more ventilation) and prehaps
is another change over the Laserlite to make the Laser a two-man tent.

Anyone find the same with the fly being raised from the ground, or is
it me ;-)

yes mine is the same. I assume it's by design so that you get
ventilation near to where the flyscreens are on the inner. By the way I
managed to rip some stitching out where the internal pole attaches to
the inner, it's very tight and a bit of over enthusiasm when removing
the poles can easily result in a tear.

Quoted message said:

First impressions of the Laser? Roomy for one ;-) Inner can be left
attached (it arrived this way ;-) Like the inner doorway opening the
full length of the tent and the fly can be opened on either side (or
both) giving greater flexibility if the wind shifts, etc.... and
wonderfully light!! This tent is as light as a very light thing :-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:44:45 +0100, Tony Walsh <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

SteveO wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone find the same with the fly being raised from the ground, or is
it me ;-)

yes mine is the same. I assume it's by design so that you get
ventilation near to where the flyscreens are on the inner.

I've been mulling this over since I first posted and I'd pretty much
come to that conclusion. I think when I first saw it my first
impression was heightened by the effect of the terrain it was pitched
on also dipping away from the fly's edge. (My lawn is not bowling
standard... but prolly qualifies as "crown" green ;-)

Quoted message said:

By the way I managed to rip some stitching out where the internal pole
attaches to the inner, it's very tight and a bit of over enthusiasm when
removing the poles can easily result in a tear.

Yeouch! :-(

At the mo' I'm leaving mine with these poles in place to pitch/break
as a single unit (inner attached). It was delivered that way from
Nevis Sport, their web site showed "Temp out of stock" shortly after I
bought mine so methinks that mine had been put up as a demo to someone
in-store. All of which makes me think that they reckon its OK to do
that.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk