largest tooth diff for ultegra triple?

dan baker said:

Which brings me to my question; can an ultegra triple be
set up with a 55 big ring, and a 27 tooth small ring,
maybe a 39 in the middle, and still shift reasonably well?

The problem with that is the 39. Shimano triple type front
derailers are mostly optimized for a 10 tooth difference
betwixt the middle and large ring. I'd advise leaving the
stock 42 in place, this will probably shift OK even with the
non-standard outer rings.

See also: sheldonbrown.com74Open ↗

Sheldon "Shifty" Brown +----------------------------------------
+
| Lottery: the closest thing we have | to a tax on
| stupidity. |
+----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery,
West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-
1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped
Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

If you raise the height of the front derailleur to
accomodate the 55t ring, then you will drag the chain on the
bottom of the front derailleur, especially an Ultegra, if
you use a 24 or 26t granny. If you want 55/42, you will be
best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front derailleur. It's
cage is longer than the Ultegra.

There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120
rpm. In most of those cases, you'd be better off not
pedaling and getting in a more aerodynamic tuck. Certainly,
you won't be cornering at those speeds. You don't gain much
in going from a 53 to 55 and it is going to cost big$.

Practice spinning faster.

Paul Kopit said:

If you raise the height of the front derailleur to
accomodate the 55t ring, then you will drag the chain on
the bottom of the front derailleur, especially an Ultegra,
if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If you want 55/42, you will
be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front derailleur.
It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.

There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-
120 rpm. In most of those cases, you'd be better off not
pedaling and getting in a more aerodynamic tuck.

It's definately faster for me to tuck than to try to spin
out my 52/12. In normal riding, I tuck on the hills, and
don't start pedaling again until my speed drops to 30 or so.
I often coast right past people pedaling furiously.

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could use a 28 or 26.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

It's definately faster for me to tuck than to try to spin
out my 52/12. In normal riding, I tuck on the hills, and
don't start pedaling again until my speed drops to 30 or
so. I often coast right past people pedaling furiously.

It's true that a good tuck is faster, but I always feel in
better control when I'm actually pedaling.

Quoted message said:

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could use a 28 or 26.

See: sheldonbrown.com74Open ↗

Sheldon "My Rohloff Goes From 21 To 113 Inches In 14 Even
Steps" Brown +---------------------------------------------+
| Do not needlessly endanger your lives | until I give
| you the signal. | --Dwight D. Eisenhower |
+---------------------------------------------+ Harris
Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX
617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could

use a 28

Quoted message said:

or 26.

Matt: A 28 will work with no issues whatsoever, and a 26
is usually fine. A 24 is pushing it beyond what will
shift cleanly.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

If you raise the height of the front derailleur to
accomodate the 55t ring, then you will drag the chain on
the bottom of the front derailleur, especially an
Ultegra, if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If you want
55/42, you will be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple
front derailleur. It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.

There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-
120 rpm. In most of those cases, you'd be better off not
pedaling and getting in a more aerodynamic tuck.

It's definately faster for me to tuck than to try to spin
out my 52/12.

In

Quoted message said:

normal riding, I tuck on the hills, and don't start
pedaling again until

my

Quoted message said:

speed drops to 30 or so. I often coast right past people
pedaling

furiously.

Quoted message said:

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could

use a 28

Quoted message said:

or 26.

Matt O.

Paul Kopit said:

If you raise the height of the front derailleur to
accomodate the 55t ring, then you will drag the chain on
the bottom of the front derailleur, especially an Ultegra,
if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If you want 55/42, you will
be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front derailleur.
It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.

There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-
120 rpm. In most of those cases, you'd be better off not
pedaling and getting in a more aerodynamic tuck.

You might not say that if you raced. I've done races/races
with tailwinds sprints and national caliber riders. I can
pretty much guarantee you that you don't stick to their
wheels by tucking. That said, I don't put an 11t on that
often -- only for specific events that call for it. Most of
the time I prefer an extra low rather than a 53x11. But
there are special situations where "no 11t" pushes the luck
a bit _if other riders have it_.

Quoted message said:

Practice spinning faster.

Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a good
tail wind and an open road, a tandem could be turning 38 mph
(100 rpm in a 52x11) for a while. I know I don't like to
pedal too much faster than 105 rpm for the mid/long term.
110 rpm starts to be annoying, and 120 rpm is definitely
annoying in the mid/long term (no problem for sprints). And
my 95-105 rpm is just a time trial mode. For just "pedaling
along," I like 70-90 rpm better.

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

dan baker said:

Which brings me to my question; can an ultegra triple
be set up with a 55 big ring, and a 27 tooth small
ring, maybe a 39 in the middle, and still shift
reasonably well?

The problem with that is the 39. Shimano triple type front
derailers are mostly optimized for a 10 tooth difference
betwixt the middle and large ring. I'd advise leaving the
stock 42 in place, this will probably shift OK even with
the non-standard outer rings.

See also: sheldonbrown.com74Open ↗

Sheldon "Shifty" Brown

I have a 26/39/53 set on an Ultegra crank on my Tour Easy
recumbent. I have FSA rings on the middle and outer
positions. (I bought the FSA rings through Bike Tools Etc.:
tinyurl.com2qcdeOpen ↗ and tinyurl.com2oz7gOpen ↗ . A 55
tooth is also available.) It shifts perfectly- but I have an
R443 front derailing thingy (sheldonbrown.comderailersOpen ↗
front.html) to match my old XTR brake/shift levers. YMMV,
ipso facto, and hold the mayo.

Jeff "Snoozy" Wills

On Tue, 25 May 2004 02:22:38 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could use a 28 or 26.

I can only answer from my tandem experience. I was
able to run
54/44/28 using Sachs Ergo shifters but needed a Shimano XTR
900 front derailleur. Later, a Racing-T, 52/42/28
worked fine, again with Ergo and the aforementioned
front derailleur. A Shimano DuraAce, triple front
derailleur worked ok too but I needed to change the
big ring to a 53 and have the derailleur the full 3 mm
above the chainring. You can shift that with STI. A 26
is used on many tandems as well. They usually are
limited to using the 2-3 innermost cogs on the
cassette with that size ring.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 21:47:12 -0700, gwhite <gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com>

Quoted message said:

Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a
good tail wind and an open road, a tandem could be turning
38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11) for a while. I know I don't
like to pedal too much faster than 105 rpm for the mid/long
term. 110 rpm starts to be annoying, and 120 rpm is
definitely annoying in the mid/long term (no problem for
sprints). And my 95-105 rpm is just a time trial mode. For
just "pedaling along," I like 70-90 rpm better.

I ride tandem frequently and have ridden with strong,
motivated stokers. Due to wind resistance, the strength to
pedal 38 mph for any length of time requires very special
riders. High downhill speeds are maintained by spinning
very high rpm for a short time, tucking and then repeating
the process.

When you pull the 11t off, the cog you substitute within the
cluster will get more use.

gwhite <gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Practice spinning faster.

Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a
good tail wind and an open road, a tandem could be turning
38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11)
-------------

exactly. case in point was last weekend at the santa fe
century in NM. there is a stretch that is a flat/gentle
downhill for 12 miles, and we had a 15mph tailwind, AND I
had a male stoker that day.... we were flying along at 100-
105rpm for 12 miles (close to 40mph on the flat!), and I was
really wishing I had one more gear. There were a couple
other shorter stretches too.

d

Paul Kopit said:

There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120
rpm. In most of those cases, you'd be better off not
pedaling and getting in a more aerodynamic tuck.

It's a tandem. Air resistance for one, pedalling force from
two. Normally I'm fairly scornful of the crowd who want
bigger gears than Lance, but it's another matter here.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]>
Distortion Field!

Paul Kopit said:

I ride tandem frequently and have ridden with strong,
motivated stokers. Due to wind resistance, the strength to
pedal 38 mph for any length of time requires very special
riders. High downhill speeds are maintained by spinning
very high rpm for a short time, tucking and then repeating
the process.

I ride single. On a nearby hill, not terribly steep or long,
just moderate, I did 43 mph in my 52x11 (124.2 gear inches).
If I had a lower gear and spun out, and just tucked and
coasted, I would not have passed 38mph; indeed, that's my
usual speed on that hill. I think I could have gone faster
with a taller gear. I'm better at mashing than spinning, and
I'm happy to be so.

Sure, I didn't get where I was going sooner, but I had
more fun. I enjoy applying whatever power I have available
when flying down a hill. That's a fine reason to want
taller gearing.

This was with a group, and on a whim; and I am most
definitely not a strong or fast rider.

Tall gears are not for everybody, but neither are they
always useless, as some would have everybody believe.
--
Rick Onanian

On 25 May 2004 15:23:28 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Normally I'm fairly scornful . . .

[snip]

Sheldon Brown said:

It's true that a good tuck is faster, but I always feel in
better control when I'm actually pedaling.

Sometimes I do too -- like when cornering on uneven
pavement. This is mostly what I use my top gear for, and why
mountain bikers like to have gears that are "taller than
necessary."

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "My Rohloff Goes From 21 To 113 Inches In 14 Even
Steps" Brown

Very cool unit! I'd love to build an uber-commuter bike with
one of these, and a full chaincase. It would be unbeatable
for muddy mountain biking too (like they do in Germany,
where I'm told it rains even more than in Seattle).

Matt O.

Paul Kopit said:

On Mon, 24 May 2004 21:47:12 -0700, gwhite

gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com said:

Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a
good tail wind and an open road, a tandem could be
turning 38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11) for a while. I know I
don't like to pedal too much faster than 105 rpm for the
mid/long term. 110 rpm starts to be annoying, and 120 rpm
is definitely annoying in the mid/long term (no problem
for sprints). And my 95-105 rpm is just a time trial
mode. For just "pedaling along," I like 70-90 rpm better.

I ride tandem frequently and have ridden with strong,
motivated stokers. Due to wind resistance, the strength to
pedal 38 mph for any length of time requires very special
riders. High downhill speeds are maintained by spinning
very high rpm for a short time, tucking and then repeating
the process.

When you pull the 11t off, the cog you substitute within
the cluster will get more use.

Example: Try riding along the Pacific coast. I lived in
Santa Cruz for 18 years. In the return from what I called
the "Swanton Loop," I would, on certain days, be able to
pedal along _solo_ at 35 mph or so because of the blazing
tailwind (on the "out" of loop it would be a grueling 15 mph
slog). It happens. Note you say "spinning very high rpm for
a short time." If one doesn't need a _lower_ gear, they
might as well put a higher gear on so they don't need to
practice that "very high rpm." I do not enjoy pedaling at
145 rpm any more than 25 rpm -- not even for short times. So
if I don't need a low gear *more*, I'll put on the big. It
is irrelevent if it doesn't get used often or for long
intervals.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 10:59:11 -0700, gwhite

gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com said:

If one doesn't need a _lower_ gear, they might as well put
a higher gear on so they don't need to practice that "very
high rpm." I do not enjoy pedaling at 145 rpm any more than
25 rpm -- not even for short times. So if I don't need a
low gear *more*, I'll put on the big.

Or, if one doesn't need the ultra-close ratios, they might
as well put on higher _and_ lower gears. The logic of the
"spin faster rather than using a tall gear" crowd breaks
down when you consider that we have 7, 8, or 9 speed rear
ends -- if you require one-tooth differences when cruising
so your cadence stays within 5 rpm of your preference, what
happens when you're going very slow or very fast? Now all of
a sudden you can pedal at a vastly different cadence, even
though between 10 mph and 30 mph you had to pedal a single
constant perfect cadence? I don't think so.

I do better choosing between 70 and 90 rpm gears at 15 mph
then I do trying to hit 145 rpm at 40 mph, or trying to get
up a hill at 30 rpm doing 4 mph. That's why I have wide-
range gearing front and rear.
--
Rick Onanian

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could

use a 28

Quoted message said:

or 26.

Matt: A 28 will work with no issues whatsoever, and a 26
is usually fine. A 24 is pushing it beyond what will shift
cleanly.

yea .. i have a 24 on mine and i guess i would agree with
that. i put on a chain catcher and i'm happy with the
performance but i wouldn't say it has "no problems
whatsoever" .. it's certainly not annoying, tho, and i'm not
tempted to change it.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

gwhite <gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com> wrote in message news:<40B3896F.A6DDA2B9@hocuspocus_ti.com>...

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit wrote:

Example: Try riding along the Pacific coast. I lived in
Santa Cruz for 18 years. In the return from what I called
the "Swanton Loop," I would, on certain days, be able to
pedal along _solo_ at 35 mph or so because of the blazing
tailwind (on the "out" of loop it would be a grueling 15
mph slog). It happens.

----------------------------------

this is kind of my situation. springtime in NM generally has
some pretty steady winds in the afternoons at 10-20mph,
which means the average loop has some significant section
where it is not hard to maintain 35+mph on a tandem for a
couple miles. Plenty of times I wanted one more gear above
the 52x11 I have now.

I ride mostly in NM and CO, which means a fair amount of
hills, and the occasional double whammy of a hill combined
with the headwind. 😉 On a tandem, its pretty tough to stand
for any length of time, which means I really want to
maintain the lowest reasonable granny I can that will shift
reasonably well, and the front deraill can handle given the
big chainring.

hence, my original question: given a 55 big ring, how small
an inner ring can a ultegra triple front derail handle? So
far it sounds like 28 or maybe 27.

d

Quoted message said:

My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra
triple w/o any problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the
other two rings, but I could use a 28 or 26.

Matt O.

I use an Ultegra 52-38-26 using TA rings with an 12-27
cassette and have good shifting. Initial problem was the
oversized seattube but Vecchios managed to shim out BB
nicely. The shifting is good if I keep the fder cable
tension perfectly adjusted.