Landis looses arbitration.

He already confessed to witness tampering.

Nein11 said:

will he appeal?

Why can't 80% of people on the Internet spell lose?

sportsillustrated.cnn.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

Bro Deal said:

Why can't 80% of people on the Internet spell lose?

I don't know but Hayden still rocks.

Bro Deal said:

Why can't 80% of people on the Internet spell lose?

possibly b/c English it's not their native tongue?

Its not mine either.

LeDomestique said:

possibly b/c English it's not their native tongue?

That could be and if so I apologize to the poster specifically, but I am talking in a more general sense. Even on sites where the population is mostly American and native English speakers, the majority of the participants seem to be incapable of telling the difference between "loose" and "lose." Take slashdot, for example, a site where half the people there think of themselbes as geniuses; only a small percentage know the difference.

Sorry, a pet peeve. Probably should not have brought it up.

It's because the school systems let people get away with it.

They should bring back the cane and give kids a good whupping when they make stupid mistakes like that.

Good on them for posting anyway.... there are 1000s & 1000s of lurkers out there who don't/can't/won't post because they spell worse than my pet fish....

I've found my spelling has improved dramatically with the advent of the net and people flaming each other over it...

These days I blame mistakes on typing...

My pet peeve is (your, youre, you're,). Especially among Australians... (and I'm one).

e.g:
Them: Your wrong!
Me: My wrong?

Anyway, back to the OP's question, I think Landis will appeal. He already won a partial victory with the TE test being tossed out. The decision is mealy mouthed enough to give some hope that CAS might toss the IRMS test. Plus CAS has a history of occassionally finding for the athlete. It must have sucked to be Landis going into the the arbitration with the USADA knowing that the arbs have never found in favor of the athlete.

Bro Deal said:

Anyway, back to the OP's question, I think Landis will appeal. He already won a partial victory with the TE test being tossed out. The decision is mealy mouthed enough to give some hope that CAS might toss the IRMS test. Plus CAS has a history of occassionally finding for the athlete. It must have sucked to be Landis going into the the arbitration with the USADA knowing that the arbs have never found in favor of the athlete.

I reckon the finidng was a win for Landis. Because I think the Landaluze case was just as sketchy when it went before the CAS and they found for the IL.

Bro Deal said:

Anyway, back to the OP's question, I think Landis will appeal. He already won a partial victory with the TE test being tossed out. The decision is mealy mouthed enough to give some hope that CAS might toss the IRMS test. Plus CAS has a history of occassionally finding for the athlete. It must have sucked to be Landis going into the the arbitration with the USADA knowing that the arbs have never found in favor of the athlete.

The question is not IF Landis doped, but WHEN. According to a friend of mine who is a retired pro athlete and has written several books on the subject of doping, Landis in all probability did not dope during the Tour. He doped several months before during training.

What happened in the Tour was a false TE reading, a spike, brought on by dehydration. That spike was brought on by the fact that he improperly doped several months before. According to my friend, there is a way to dope and to beat the system. Weight lifters do it all the time. It has to do with how you wean yourself off the steroids which allows your body to resume the natural production of testosterone. If you come off too quickly, you run the risk of the false spike during the stress of competition which is probably what happened to Landis.

If you want to zero in on the WHEN he might have doped, you have to go back through all the photos of Landis, especially during the training period before the Tour and look for any noticable change in the contours of his leg muscles. Look for before-and-after kinds of pictures. If his legs show a marked changed in muscle conformation, that's when he was doping.

Trekker2017 said:

The question is not IF Landis doped, but WHEN. According to a friend of mine who is a retired pro athlete and has written several books on the subject of doping, Landis in all probability did not dope during the Tour. He doped several months before during training.

What happened in the Tour was a false TE reading, a spike, brought on by dehydration. That spike was brought on by the fact that he improperly doped several months before. According to my friend, there is a way to dope and to beat the system. Weight lifters do it all the time. It has to do with how you wean yourself off the steroids which allows your body to resume the natural production of testosterone. If you come off too quickly, you run the risk of the false spike during the stress of competition which is probably what happened to Landis.

If you want to zero in on the WHEN he might have doped, you have to go back through all the photos of Landis, especially during the training period before the Tour and look for any noticable change in the contours of his leg muscles. Look for before-and-after kinds of pictures. If his legs show a marked changed in muscle conformation, that's when he was doping.

This goes beyond his TE ratio. The IRMS test showed the use of exogenous testosterone. When the other B samples were tested they showed that Landis was using testosterone throughout the TdF. The typical testosterone gel that is used has a smalll detection window.

Bro Deal said:

This goes beyond his TE ratio. The IRMS test showed the use of exogenous testosterone. When the other B samples were tested they showed that Landis was using testosterone throughout the TdF. The typical testosterone gel that is used has a smalll detection window.

Basically, we both agree. He was dirty. He was looking for an edge and got caught. The question I've raised with my friend is this: since the doping was done wrong (his theory), was Landis self-administering the steroids or were they being introduced into him by a trainer without his knowledge? Same question for you. You've got to be abjectly stupid to dope during the race. Landis has never impressed me as being stupid.

Trekker2017 said:

Basically, we both agree. He was dirty. He was looking for an edge and got caught. The question I've raised with my friend is this: since the doping was done wrong (his theory), was Landis self-administering the steroids or were they being introduced into him by a trainer without his knowledge? Same question for you. You've got to be abjectly stupid to dope during the race. Landis has never impressed me as being stupid.

Use of recovery products during GTs appears to be common. Some of hte products are undtectable and others, like testosterone, have tests that are easy to beat. The only risk is getting caught in a police raid with the actual product. Since it also appears that many riders are using wives, girl friends, family, or wahtever to hold their stash, the risk of getting caught by police is minimized. It is not necessarily stupid to dope during therace.

On the second or third consecutive day in the mountains and the third week of the race, the rewards of using recovery PEDs would be very high relative to the risk.

Landis was probably doing exactly what he had been doing since he first rode the Tour with Postal. If it has worked for years, why stop.

Recent news is that Landis is leaning towards not appealing to CAS. He mentions that CAS sometimes extends bans, so he may be worried about having his ban start from this year's PB100 or SM100.

Maybe he does not want to spend the money he is making on his book, preferring to use that the survive until his ban is up.

Bro Deal said:

Recent news is that Landis is leaning towards not appealing to CAS. He mentions that CAS sometimes extends bans, so he may be worried about having his ban start from this year's PB100 or SM100.

Maybe he does not want to spend the money he is making on his book, preferring to use that the survive until his ban is up.

Does he intend to return to pro cycling?

Powerful Pete said:

Does he intend to return to pro cycling?

He does mention that CAS might extend his ban, so that would only be important to him if he wants to race again. I think we will see him on a domestic pro team. Perhaps he will even race MTB part time.

As far as racing in europe, it looks like it would be hard in the current environment. It will be interesting to see how the return of Heras and Basso is handled. Hamilton certainly has not fared well.

Bro Deal said:

He does mention that CAS might extend his ban, so that would only be important to him if he wants to race again. I think we will see him on a domestic pro team. Perhaps he will even race MTB part time.

As far as racing in europe, it looks like it would be hard in the current environment. It will be interesting to see how the return of Heras and Basso is handled. Hamilton certainly has not fared well.

True. Dunno about Heras (don't remember his age) but I wonder if someone will risk signing Basso again... 'he has done his time' statements (while remembering that he is relatively young and has a number of good years ahead of him).

This worked against Hamilton.