Landis' historical ride

thebluetrain said:

Everyone is saying his ride will go down as one of the greats in TdF history. His ride is being compared to rides by Mercyx and Gaul. I think he has one upped LA and his 7 years of dominance in one stage although LA's ride up Luz Ardiden in '03 IMO is comparable. It would be great to see him go out and win the TT tomorrow and reclaim the yellow jersey. He has a great oppurtunity in front of him.

It will be intersting to see how LA's ego handles this, in my view, complete upstaging. Which TdF in the last 10 years will be best remembered? 2006! LA didn't even get 12 months of glory. His 7 years will be respected, lauded, but this year will be treasured. Unfortunately for him (if he cares), dominance is not inspirational. His "story" was stronger after the first year or two.

Luz Ardiden is comparable only in broad terms that ignore things like hours, kilometers, # climbs, time gained on competitors. "17" is completely unique, hors categrorie compared to Ardiden's 2.

thebluetrain said:

Everyone is saying his ride will go down as one of the greats in TdF history. His ride is being compared to rides by Mercyx and Gaul. I think he has one upped LA and his 7 years of dominance in one stage although LA's ride up Luz Ardiden in '03 IMO is comparable. It would be great to see him go out and win the TT tomorrow and reclaim the yellow jersey. He has a great oppurtunity in front of him.

To cycling fans, Landis' performance rivals that of Armstrong's, but to American's in general, Armstrong's story combined with his dominance for seven years relegates Landis' ride -- in their minds -- to barely a blip on the radar.

For me, it ranks second by the slimmest of margins only to LeMond beating Fig in Paris on the last day. For me, those two performances are way above anything I've ever seen (on TV) ref. the Tour.

The reason I give the nod to LeMond is because, it was the last day and he won the jersey... And then he slapped Fig silly at the world championships later that year, a race Kelly should have won.

I agree. I am just comparing LA's Luz Ardiden ride in a sense of what happened that day not in a statistical sense.

JRMDC said:

Luz Ardiden is comparable only in broad terms that ignore things like hours, kilometers, # climbs, time gained on competitors. "17" is completely unique, hors categrorie compared to Ardiden's 2.

helmutRoole2 said:

To cycling fans, Landis' performance rivals that of Armstrong's, but to American's in general, Armstrong's story combined with his dominance for seven years relegates Landis' ride -- in their minds -- to barely a blip on the radar.

True enough. The public understands cancer->TdF champion, not bonk/heat stroke/whatever->amazing one-day solo TdF ride (and probable champion). The latter requires understanding cycling. Maybe the hip will lead to some more hype ex-post, but then that is not how the machine works.

Had LA only won in 1999, the general public would no longer be taking about him either. 🙂

helmutRoole2 said:

To cycling fans, Landis' performance rivals that of Armstrong

I think as a single day ride, Landis's resurrection as basically one man standing against 3 teams with GC hopes is more impressive than anything Armstrong ever did. Cancer-survivor feel-good story aside, I think Armstrong's legacy as a cyclist lies in his meticulous preparation, tactics, and his work with Bruyneel in superb deployment of the team assembled to support him. Yes, there were some remarkable and thrilling moments, but they usually occurred late in a stage where he had everyone right where he wanted them and then moved in for the kill.

Floyd was facing a near impossible task that was going to take him all damned day to accomplish, and he did it. Whenever Armstrong attacked in a pivotal moment, or when he started riding cross-country after Beloki fell, or when he got up from the shopping bag incident and tore after Ullrich et al., I jumped out of my chair and my blood pressure spiked. Yesterday, I got up slowly, incredulously, as Floyd began to pull away, and I didn't sit down again for 3 hours.

rejobako said:

I think as a single day ride, Landis's resurrection as basically one man standing against 3 teams with GC hopes is more impressive than anything Armstrong ever did. Cancer-survivor feel-good story aside, I think Armstrong's legacy as a cyclist lies in his meticulous preparation, tactics, and his work with Bruyneel in superb deployment of the team assembled to support him. Yes, there were some remarkable and thrilling moments, but they usually occurred late in a stage where he had everyone right where he wanted them and then moved in for the kill.

Floyd was facing a near impossible task that was going to take him all damned day to accomplish, and he did it. Whenever Armstrong attacked in a pivotal moment, or when he started riding cross-country after Beloki fell, or when he got up from the shopping bag incident and tore after Ullrich et al., I jumped out of my chair and my blood pressure spiked. Yesterday, I got up slowly, incredulously, as Floyd began to pull away, and I didn't sit down again for 3 hours.

I agree, I think what Landis did yesterday is significantly more impressive than what I saw Armstrong do on any given day. That's not saying anything against his 7 wins...I just think Floyd had to battle harder, and succeeded in doing so.

helmutRoole2 said:

To cycling fans, Landis' performance rivals that of Armstrong's, but to American's in general, Armstrong's story combined with his dominance for seven years relegates Landis' ride -- in their minds -- to barely a blip on the radar.

I agree, however... would you not say that to people in general, not specifically Americans?

rejobako said:

Yesterday, I got up slowly, incredulously, as Floyd began to pull away, and I didn't sit down again for 3 hours.

I was at work checking the internet and, yeah, i could barely sit down. And in the office -- I'm a flack at a company the imports cycling equipment -- there were two nay sayers. By the end of the day, there were, begrudgingly, converts.

About halfway through his ride, I don't know why, but I started thinking it was possible.

Mansmind said:

I agree, I think what Landis did yesterday is significantly more impressive than what I saw Armstrong do on any given day. That's not saying anything against his 7 wins...I just think Floyd had to battle harder, and succeeded in doing so.

I think the French call that panache.

Mansmind said:

I agree, however... would you not say that to people in general, not specifically Americans?

True that.

I've been down on Americans since Bush got elected. Nothing against the Republican party, but this admistration... man, what a side show.

helmutRoole2 said:

I think the French call that panache.

Touche'

helmutRoole2 said:

True that.

I've been down on Americans since Bush got elected. Nothing against the Republican party, but this admistration... man, what a side show.

Well, I must admit I had a better opinion of him then, than I do now... that's an entirely different discussion however.

could Landis have done that or even be in contention had Ullrich and Basso been allowed to compete?i doubt it.this Tour peloton is composed of guys that take doping but didnt get caught.

nonameboy said:

could Landis have done that or even be in contention had Ullrich and Basso been allowed to compete?i doubt it.this Tour peloton is composed of guys that take doping but didnt get caught.

maybe, maybe not

Mansmind said:

I agree, however... would you not say that to people in general, not specifically Americans?

I get the impression that cycling is more respected in places outside of America, though.

Now I know Landis ride was historical, but how about Rasmussen's ride wasn't that a bit amazing too?. It seems like his historical acheivement, on the king stage, was somehow overshadowed by Landis crack on that same stage.

Prano said:

Now I know Landis ride was historical, but how about Rasmussen's ride wasn't that a bit amazing too?. It seems like his historical acheivement, on the king stage, was somehow overshadowed by Landis crack on that same stage.

The main difference is that rasmussen was never chased down because he was no threat on the GC> They pulled time back on him because they wre in fighting and trying to distance from Landis. Landi's ride had entire teams that sole purpose for working so hard was to chase him down.

This is taking nothing away from Rasmussen, and his ride was spectacular, but it was a different type of amazing ride.

Capt.Injury said:

The main difference is that rasmussen was never chased down because he was no threat on the GC> They pulled time back on him because they wre in fighting and trying to distance from Landis. Landi's ride had entire teams that sole purpose for working so hard was to chase him down.

This is taking nothing away from Rasmussen, and his ride was spectacular, but it was a different type of amazing ride.

[font=Verdana][font=Verdana]You are right, but it was not like Rasmussen was given an easy ride by the peloton or the chasers, but to his luck, as a pure climber, more than half of the stage was a climb. He was also smart enough not to completely drop Casar and Valvavec on Col du Galibier and then to help him through the valley. [/font]

[font=Verdana]The stage in it self was so tough that over half of the riders didn't make it within the normal the timelimit, that gotta count for something. He did most of it on his own after just 7 km from the start,,,,, thats just amazing. [/font]

[/font]

Prano said:

Now I know Landis ride was historical, but how about Rasmussen's ride wasn't that a bit amazing too?. It seems like his historical acheivement, on the king stage, was somehow overshadowed by Landis crack on that same stage.

Here's a direct comparison: Landis did each climb around 200 VAM faster than Rasmussen. We are talking a completely different league.

Landis Breakaway:
Col des Saisies (6.4%): 395 watts in 36:55.
Col des Aravis (7.1%): 371 watts in 16:49.
Col de la Colombiere (5.8%): 392 watts in 27:45.
Cote de Chatillion-sur-Cluses (4.9%): 374 watts in 11:07.
Col de Joux-Plane (8.5%): 372 watts in 37:34.

In solitary breakaway for more than 100km, 4h of effort, with 4 climbsfor a total of 3000m of climbing and several kms of flat course, he was then able to climb the final ascent at 1637 m/h (average gradient 8.5%).

"Landis a cracké" was the main title of l' Equipe. Today Floyd responded with a feat that hadn't seen in quite many years.

Rasmussen Breakaway:

Mikael Rasmussen confirmed his excellent endurance skills with a breakaway of almost 180km, half of which totally alone.
1417 m/h was his VAM on the Croix de Fer (22.7km at 6.9%).
1411 m/h on the Col de Mollard (5.8km at 6.8%) and 1336 m/h on the final ascent to La Toussuire (18km at 6%).

Behind him the group of the favorites: 1392 m/h on the Croix de Fer, 1500 m/h on the Mollard and 1470 m/h on the Toussuire.