lances evil plan??

meehs said:

Doesn't make sense to me. Why does he need to "get clean" in order not to get caught now? He hasn't tested positive yet. Are you saying that he needs to be clean now because of the new testing procedures? If that's the case, why wouldn't he just retire now and end with a win in the TdF vs. retiring after the race and ending his carreer with a loss in the TdF?

That makes sense since ,if I am not mistaken,Flyer stated that no one has ever tested positive or no winner has ever tested positive in the tour.

jhuskey said:

That makes sense since ,if I am not mistaken,Flyer stated that no one has ever tested positive or no winner has ever tested positive in the tour.

I have always found this theory amusing. In it the UCI hides positives by numerous winners (according to the doped one's theory) from various nations, including unpopular ones(riders) in the Tour, but is ok with one of the most popular racer's in the world getting busted in the penultimate day of his home country's tour(Pantani-Giro)...one of the biggest races of the year. Yeah, that makes sense!🙄

The TDF is NOT the Giro. Da!

Merckx went positive and was DQed at the Giro, never the TDF!

The TDF is run by better businessmen, the WWF of cycling. The show must go on no matter what.

Pedro Delgado and Lance Armstrong both went positive for drugs (1987 Delgado & 1999, 2000 for Armstrong) but were allowed to continue for TUE and because the drugs were not yet on the UCI list. Both Delgado & Armstrong escaped due to their status. Armstrong had even more going for him givent the motivation by promoters to avoid a repeat of 1998.

Business interests always trump sport.

In 2005, WADA may have some observers present. They will have to be bribed or otherwise controlled so that the winner can avoid an embarrassing test.

The show must go on. And that makes sense!

btw: Wasn't Pantani both a TDF winner and a coke/epo junkie? Hmmmmm, makes you wonder about tha effectiveness of TDF testing?

btw: It impossible to test for drugs not approved for sale. (pre-clinical and clinical research drugs) And these are the most powerful of all!

House said:

I have always found this theory amusing. In it the UCI hides positives by numerous winners (according to the doped one's theory) from various nations, including unpopular ones(riders) in the Tour, but is ok with one of the most popular racer's in the world getting busted in the penultimate day of his home country's tour(Pantani-Giro)...one of the biggest races of the year. Yeah, that makes sense!🙄

Skirting around the issue that was brought up by merely repeating things he has already said. What a surprise.

Or Lance will get super charged up---one last time in June for yet another 'unoffical pre-clinical drug trial' aka: The 2005 TDF finale.

There is no way WADA with it miger budget can research the biotech research that quickly. By the time the truth (formula) comes out, we will be worshiping another athlete--so it will hardly matter.

Such is life.

Flyer said:

The TDF is NOT the Giro. Da!

Merckx went positive and was DQed at the Giro, never the TDF!

The TDF is run by better businessmen, the WWF of cycling. The show must go on no matter what.

Pedro Delgado and Lance Armstrong both went positive for drugs (1987 Delgado & 1999, 2000 for Armstrong) but were allowed to continue for TUE and because the drugs were not yet on the UCI list. Both Delgado & Armstrong escaped due to their status. Armstrong had even more going for him givent the motivation by promoters to avoid a repeat of 1998.

Business interests always trump sport.

In 2005, WADA may have some observers present. They will have to be bribed or otherwise controlled so that the winner can avoid an embarrassing test.

The show must go on. And that makes sense!

btw: Wasn't Pantani both a TDF winner and a coke/epo junkie? Hmmmmm, makes you wonder about tha effectiveness of TDF testing?

btw: It impossible to test for drugs not approved for sale. (pre-clinical and clinical research drugs) And these are the most powerful of all!

Let me make sure what it is your are alluding to. If you test positive at the TDF and have a highly regarded status you might be allowed to race anyway and the results ingored.
Is this correct?

Flyer said:

Or Lance will get super charged up---one last time in June for yet another 'unoffical pre-clinical drug trial' aka: The 2005 TDF finale.

There is no way WADA with it miger budget can research the biotech research that quickly. By the time the truth (formula) comes out, we will be worshiping another athlete--so it will hardly matter.

Such is life.

[font=Comic Sans MS]Yea... Lance. I think Flyer is just taking his frustrations out on us because they did not accept him into medical school. Or maybe a guy named Lance stole his high school girlfriend. Nahhhh ...... I still go back to my original theory that Flyer is Jan Ullrichs mother writing all these negative things. [/font]

wolfix said:

[font=Comic Sans MS]Yea... Lance. I think Flyer is just taking his frustrations out on us because they did not accept him into medical school. Or maybe a guy named Lance stole his high school girlfriend. Nahhhh ...... I still go back to my original theory that Flyer is Jan Ullrichs mother writing all these negative things. [/font]

damn yank :p

This does not come under the heading of Lance's evil plan, but rather all commercial sport/business standard policy/practice.

Absolutely, no star athlete DQed due to doping in the TDF---and in the exact same manner that Major League Baseball protects Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi from a steroid consequence.

Neither Giambi or Bonds have tested positive---in fact no big star has gone positive.

What about the NFL. They have a drug policy--except everyone is on drugs. Yet, no test results---only a DEA inquiry into a local pharmany and North Carolina physician revealed doping on the Panthers.

Is this not telling?

Wasn't Hulk Hogan a WWF star and steroid abuser?

Was that a jealous secret too?

We can never depend on sporting federations, promoters or even the actual tests for full compliance!

Last year, Danilo Di Luca was univited. That was bold and a surprise to me.

jhuskey said:

Let me make sure what it is your are alluding to. If you test positive at the TDF and have a highly regarded status you might be allowed to race anyway and the results ingored.
Is this correct?

Flyer said:

This does not come under the heading of Lance's evil plan, but rather all commercial sport/business standard policy/practice.

Absolutely, no star athlete DQed due to doping in the TDF---and in the exact same manner that Major League Baseball protects Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi from a steroid consequence.

Neither Giambi or Bonds have tested positive---in fact no big star has gone positive.

Of course it wasn't illegal in baseball until recently and they started testing last season, but other then that sure.🙄

Quoted post said:

What about the NFL. They have a drug policy--except everyone is on drugs. Yet, no test results---only a DEA inquiry into a local pharmany and North Carolina physician revealed doping on the Panthers.

Strange, every season I hear of players being suspended for various drug offenses.

Quoted post said:

Is this not telling?

It would be if you had a clue as to the facts. But don't let that stand in the way.

Quoted post said:

Wasn't Hulk Hogan a WWF star and steroid abuser?

Was that a jealous secret too?

If you think anyone but middle school kids thought any pro wrestler wasn't on roids then you are even more deluded then I already know you are.

Quoted post said:

We can never depend on sporting federations, promoters or even the actual tests for full compliance!

Last year, Danilo Di Luca was univited. That was bold and a surprise to me.

Last year????? LOL You can't even get the facts straight when they support your anti-cycling agenda.

You are a joke. After this thrashing i will be nice to you and put you back on ignore mode.

Flyer said:

This does not come under the heading of Lance's evil plan, but rather all commercial sport/business standard policy/practice.

Absolutely, no star athlete DQed due to doping in the TDF---and in the exact same manner that Major League Baseball protects Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi from a steroid consequence.

Neither Giambi or Bonds have tested positive---in fact no big star has gone positive.

What about the NFL. They have a drug policy--except everyone is on drugs. Yet, no test results---only a DEA inquiry into a local pharmany and North Carolina physician revealed doping on the Panthers.

Is this not telling?

Wasn't Hulk Hogan a WWF star and steroid abuser?

Was that a jealous secret too?

We can never depend on sporting federations, promoters or even the actual tests for full compliance!

Last year, Danilo Di Luca was univited. That was bold and a surprise to me.

So by this logic Lance could dope like a wild dog,ride and win the TDF and never have the least worry.

No more, no less than in 2004.

But WADA observers may be snooping about in July 2005. They were not around last summer.

It's a relatively small land mine, compared with overdosing though.

jhuskey said:

So by this logic Lance could dope like a wild dog,ride and win the TDF and never have the least worry.

House said:

I have always found this theory amusing. In it the UCI hides positives by numerous winners (according to the doped one's theory) from various nations, including unpopular ones(riders) in the Tour, but is ok with one of the most popular racer's in the world getting busted in the penultimate day of his home country's tour(Pantani-Giro)...one of the biggest races of the year. Yeah, that makes sense!🙄

Is there any proof to this theory (it makes sound sense, but empirical proof?)

You mean the theory of corruption and fraud or the standard practice of maximizing profits from a good quality entertainment product?

Fact: The last yellow jersey to be disqualified in the Tour de France was on Friday, July 16, 1978. Belgian Michel Pollentier had just won on l'Alpe d'Huez and taken the yellow jersey. His rubber hose/tube malfunctioned and he could not pee. The technician discovered his rubber hose and bladder by grabbing his arm---as an act of a kind gesture of help.

Tour Organizers vowed that such a scandal should not be repeated. And it wasn't until, PDM and 1991 EPO ovedosing (aka: food poison), then again in 1998 Festina and TVM (jealous rumors).

World Wars stopped the Tour, but never doping scandals. They have got their game down!

Brizza said:

Is there any proof to this theory (it makes sound sense, but empirical proof?)

I understand that the corporate forces behind the race are more important than the race itself, but how many cases do we know of where riders have been doping and not been caught by the tdf?

It seems like a safe tour, and might explain why Mr Armstrong only competes in one major event each year.

Brizza said:

Is there any proof to this theory (it makes sound sense, but empirical proof?)

According to Flyer, the fact that no Tour winner has been busted is proof... despite any logic, facts or common sense

I assume you mean 'safe' for dopers.

Certainly, based upon:
1) the PDM scandal and 1997 admissions EPO was used in 1991
2) the Festina [censored] Voet medical trauma drug discovery---by French Custom Agents--NOT TDF or UCI dope controllers
3) the contents of Raimundas Rumsas car boot in 2002. Rumsas finished 3rd GC and had massive amounts of illegal drugs.
4) Filippe Gaumont's and Jesus Manzano's confessions as to doping in the peloton.
5) Richard Virenque and Alex Zulle admissions under oath in October 2000.
6) Jealous losers who deny this is all sadly true.

Doping and non-compliance with rules was certainly not a worry to PDM, Festina, TVM, or Lampre.

Why would Lance & USPO be concerned--they were the Champions!

Free pass for all dopers in the TDF--the great medical experiment/parade on the planet.

Brizza said:

I understand that the corporate forces behind the race are more important than the race itself, but how many cases do we know of where riders have been doping and not been caught by the tdf?

It seems like a safe tour, and might explain why Mr Armstrong only competes in one major event each year.

[quote="House"]According to Flyer, the fact that no Tour winner has been busted is proof... despite any logic, facts or common sense


What are logic, facts and common sense to a delusional paranoid?

You mean the tape I have of Merckx is a fake?

You mean my friends lied to me?

You mean Pantani is alive? Johan Sermon too?

You mean Michele Ferrari is an expert in pedal stroke and nutrition, not blood boosting?

You mean PDM was poisoned by Hotel mates on Team Banesto.

You mean Mauro Gianetti was not hospitalized on May 8, 1998 after overdosing on PFC?

You mean there was no Festina trial in Lille, France in October 2000?

You mean Lance Armstrong did not discuss Acto-something on his December 2000 website--confirmed the very next day by management (Actovegin was in their kit)?

You mean Lance did not move to Girona, Spain from Nice and threaten to boycott the 2001 TDF unless the French backed off on the doping investigations?

You mean Lance's former junior teammates (four) all lied about doping on the US National Team (USCF)?

You mean Greg Strock & Erich Kaiter are not ill?

No, they are no facts.

All the riders use pasta and one liter of Perrier Water.

ergogenics.orgdonati.htmlOpen ↗

btw: The Merckx doping failures announced to the public were 1969, 1973. 1977. None were the TDF.

What facts does House have? Ad hominem?

Doping is a problem in our sport (not so in Australia as there is no decent prize money) and the corporate side likes to hide this.

Sport is worth $billions and the advertisers and officials like to promote their sport in order to maximise the return on their advertising/income.

To announced that cycling has a major drug problem in top competition would not be useful for cycling or cyclists.

While the corporate world has corrupted our sport, they have also provided us with:

media attention,
assisted our athletes to be full time athletes (few in Australia can afford to be),
maintained high quality testing and development into products,
given billions of spectators high quality racing to enjoy,
and raised the public awareness and enjoyment of the sport.

So which is the worse of the two evils? Do we reveal the problem and lose much of what we have, or do we ignore the corruption and doping and push our favourite athlete to go clean?

Dead Star said:

damn yank :p

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Damn Yank ???? Hell , that's what the Texans call me too .... There was a time when I looked to Europe for my cycling fix. I love their history of bike racing . I have 2 beautiful British bikes, some fine Campagnolo equipment, and a framed race worn World Championship jersey hanging over my desk. ..... But this weekend I went to a local criterium and discovered how exciting the regional boys are....... Then I got to thinking ..... We also have some fine bike builders here in the states...... I have rode a few world class velodromes here also ........ But the good part is that riders are not attacked because they are not from the state where the race is being held......... Then it hit me ....... If a young rider wants to win the TDF , then he is better off learning his trade here in the states. Races such as the one I attended this weekend seems to produce more TDF champions then the ones in Europe....... [Lemond 3 , Armstrong 6] Just a thought......
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