lance what did you do?? (THE UNTOUCHABLES)

"Takayasu Kenduma" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

i have been a fan of l.a. since i read his performances when amateur
in the settimana bergamasca and as soon as he become a pro his victory
in trofeo laigueglia.
also his braveness in oslo, what he did in the name of casartelli...
i was really shocked for his illness and i tried to write him an
email. in that time i started to use internet and i found his address
in this ng or a fan website, i can't remenber. i am sure there are
some messages of mine (with another nick) about that.
anyway... that's only to say i do really like him as a racer and as a
man, i am not against usa, i am not interested in politics and i don't
hate winners (but i also love losers if they are admirable).

Whatever...
Lance was on his bike racing and making a point.
He did not threaten Simeoni nor did he curse at him nor did he hit him.

Simeoni is lying. If you KNOW you are innocent and someone keeps making
false accusations at you, what would you do? I would not take it lying
down.

What else?

-Ken

Ken Papai said:

"Takayasu Kenduma" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

i have been a fan of l.a. since i read his performances when amateur
in the settimana bergamasca and as soon as he become a pro his victory
in trofeo laigueglia.
also his braveness in oslo, what he did in the name of casartelli...
i was really shocked for his illness and i tried to write him an
email. in that time i started to use internet and i found his address
in this ng or a fan website, i can't remenber. i am sure there are
some messages of mine (with another nick) about that.
anyway... that's only to say i do really like him as a racer and as a
man, i am not against usa, i am not interested in politics and i don't
hate winners (but i also love losers if they are admirable).

Whatever...
Lance was on his bike racing and making a point.
He did not threaten Simeoni nor did he curse at him nor did he hit him.

Simeoni is lying. If you KNOW you are innocent and someone keeps making
false accusations at you, what would you do? I would not take it lying
down.

What else?

-Ken

see other forum section "Simeoni crying baby"
read up and find out why he is a tool.
LIVE STRONG

Ken Papai said:

"Takayasu Kenduma" <[email protected]...

Quoted message said:

i have been a fan of l.a. since i read his performances when amateur
in the settimana bergamasca and as soon as he become a pro his victory
in trofeo laigueglia.
also his braveness in oslo, what he did in the name of casartelli...
i was really shocked for his illness and i tried to write him an
email. in that time i started to use internet and i found his address
in this ng or a fan website, i can't remenber. i am sure there are
some messages of mine (with another nick) about that.
anyway... that's only to say i do really like him as a racer and as a
man, i am not against usa, i am not interested in politics and i don't
hate winners (but i also love losers if they are admirable).

Whatever...
Lance was on his bike racing and making a point.
He did not threaten Simeoni nor did he curse at him nor did he hit him.

Simeoni is lying. If you KNOW you are innocent and someone keeps making
false accusations at you, what would you do? I would not take it lying
down.

What else?

-Ken

Isn't that why Simeoni is suing Armstrong? In the U.S., defamation can be
overcome by showing the statement you made is the truth.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"Ken Papai"

Quoted message said:

Simeoni is lying.<

Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying 'cause Lance
said so?

Just to clarify your definition of the term "lie", a test... did Bill
Clinton lie under oath when he said he did not have sexual relations with
Monica?

"Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai"

Quoted message said:

Simeoni is lying.<

Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying 'cause

Lance

Quoted message said:

said so?

Most likely, yes.
Whatever. So you believe Filippo over Lance then?
I do not care.

Quoted message said:

Just to clarify your definition of the term "lie", a test... did Bill
Clinton lie under oath when he said he did not have sexual relations with
Monica?

Of course he lied.

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:tFzNc.168629$a24.26766@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai"

Quoted message said:

Simeoni is lying.<

Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying 'cause

Lance

Quoted message said:

said so?

Most likely, yes.

Why? There are only two men in the world who know for hundred percent if
Simeoni's statement is true or false: Ferrari and Simeoni himself. Armstrong
has no first-hand knowledge at all. Or do you think that Ferrari would never
recommend a rider to take epo? And that in spite of his medical dossiers of
the Gewiss team?

Benjo Maso

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai"
> Simeoni is lying.<

Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying 'cause

Lance

Quoted message said:

said so?

Most likely, yes.>

Why? There are only two men in the world who know for hundred percent if
Simeoni's statement is true or false: Ferrari and Simeoni himself.

Armstrong

Quoted message said:

has no first-hand knowledge at all. Or do you think that Ferrari would

never

Quoted message said:

recommend a rider to take epo? And that in spite of his medical dossiers

of

Quoted message said:

the Gewiss team?

I will not get int he middle of this, except to say Lance has more integrity
and soul in his life than Simeoni ever will.

Quoted message said:

Benjo Maso

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ErBNc.39846$8_6.36460@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s03...

Quoted message said:

"Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...
> "Ken Papai"
> > Simeoni is lying.<
>
> Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying

'cause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lance
> said so?

Most likely, yes.>

Why? There are only two men in the world who know for hundred percent if
Simeoni's statement is true or false: Ferrari and Simeoni himself.

Armstrong

Quoted message said:

has no first-hand knowledge at all. Or do you think that Ferrari would

never

Quoted message said:

recommend a rider to take epo? And that in spite of his medical dossiers

of

Quoted message said:

the Gewiss team?

I will not get int he middle of this, except to say Lance has more

integrity

Quoted message said:

and soul in his life than Simeoni ever will.

Although some people seem to think Armstrong is God, he is not omnipresent,
so he can't know what has been going on between Simeoni and Ferrari. So who
is source? It can only be his good friend Ferrari. But do you also believe
in the integrity and soul of "dottore EPO", as he is nicknamed?

Benjo Maso

I totally agree with you. Simeoni and Ferrari know what went on between
them, and that is what the court will have to decide. Only Armstrong and
Ferrari know what went on between them. Simeoni never said anything about
Lance and Ferrari , or any other riders (not yet anyways). Looks like Lance
is [censored] that the media has been stirring the [censored], and he has to take
out his anger on someone.

Ferrari isn't in trouble because of the sole testimony of Simeoni. Simeoni
is just a witness. Why is Lance so [censored] at him?

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ErBNc.39846$8_6.36460@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s03...
>
> "Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...
> > "Ken Papai"
> > > Simeoni is lying.<
> >
> > Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying

'cause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Lance
> > said so?
>
> Most likely, yes.>
Why? There are only two men in the world who know for hundred percent

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simeoni's statement is true or false: Ferrari and Simeoni himself.

Armstrong

Quoted message said:

has no first-hand knowledge at all. Or do you think that Ferrari would

never

Quoted message said:

recommend a rider to take epo? And that in spite of his medical

dossiers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

the Gewiss team?

I will not get int he middle of this, except to say Lance has more

integrity

Quoted message said:

and soul in his life than Simeoni ever will.

Although some people seem to think Armstrong is God, he is not

omnipresent,

Quoted message said:

so he can't know what has been going on between Simeoni and Ferrari. So

who

Quoted message said:

is source? It can only be his good friend Ferrari. But do you also believe
in the integrity and soul of "dottore EPO", as he is nicknamed?

Benjo Maso

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s03...
>
> "Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...
> > "Ken Papai"
> > > Simeoni is lying.<
> >
> > Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying

'cause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Lance
> > said so?
>
> Most likely, yes.>
Why? There are only two men in the world who know for hundred percent

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simeoni's statement is true or false: Ferrari and Simeoni himself.

Armstrong

Quoted message said:

has no first-hand knowledge at all. Or do you think that Ferrari would

never

Quoted message said:

recommend a rider to take epo? And that in spite of his medical

dossiers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

the Gewiss team?

I will not get int he middle of this, except to say Lance has more

integrity

Quoted message said:

and soul in his life than Simeoni ever will.

Although some people seem to think Armstrong is God, he is not

omnipresent,

Quoted message said:

so he can't know what has been going on between Simeoni and Ferrari. So

who

Quoted message said:

is source? It can only be his good friend Ferrari. But do you also believe
in the integrity and soul of "dottore EPO", as he is nicknamed?

I believe that Dr. Ferrari, the guy who writes special reports for
Cyclingnews, is a Good Man at his basic core.
If Dr. Ferrari prescribed EPO or any other performance-enhancing drugs to
pro racers anytime after 1993, when it was banned, then he is not a good
man. Also, neither are the racers who took those drugs. However, if they
repent and ask for forgiveness they all deserve a second chance.

Ferrari wrote this the other day:

"It was some day at the beginning of December 2002 and we were at the start
of the Dirty Duathlon: 5 km running, 20 km MTB and another 5 km running
somewhere in the desolate Texan country, one and a half hours drive from
Austin.
Needless to say that Lance literally crushed the record of that race, thanks
to some excellent running segments, well ahead of all the good duathletes
that had come from any part of Texas to win and beat Lance Armstrong.

To see him race is always an amazing experience: it is pure unconditional
competition spirit, enjoying the challenge at its fullest. To see him run up
and down among the rocks of the course was spectacular: Johann (Bruyneel)
and I were exchanging stupefied looks to each other, getting a little
worried for the integrity of his muscle joints over such a harsh ground.

But this is Lance."

QED... Dr. Ferrari seems to be a very good man.

-Ken

Quoted message said:

Benjo Maso

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:E0DNc.40372$8_6.1000@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ken Papai" <[email protected]@attbi_s03...
> >
> > "Rude Dog" <snjr.spam.supernews.com...
> > > "Ken Papai"
> > > > Simeoni is lying.<
> > >
> > > Gee Ken, please enlighten us. How do you know Simeoni is lying

'cause

Quoted message said:

> > Lance
> > > said so?
> >
> > Most likely, yes.>
> Why? There are only two men in the world who know for hundred

percent

Quoted message said:

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Simeoni's statement is true or false: Ferrari and Simeoni himself.
Armstrong
> has no first-hand knowledge at all. Or do you think that Ferrari

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

never
> recommend a rider to take epo? And that in spite of his medical

dossiers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of
> the Gewiss team?

I will not get int he middle of this, except to say Lance has more

integrity

Quoted message said:

and soul in his life than Simeoni ever will.

Although some people seem to think Armstrong is God, he is not

omnipresent,

Quoted message said:

so he can't know what has been going on between Simeoni and Ferrari. So

who

Quoted message said:

is source? It can only be his good friend Ferrari. But do you also

believe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in the integrity and soul of "dottore EPO", as he is nicknamed?

I believe that Dr. Ferrari, the guy who writes special reports for
Cyclingnews, is a Good Man at his basic core.
If Dr. Ferrari prescribed EPO or any other performance-enhancing drugs to
pro racers anytime after 1993, when it was banned, then he is not a good
man. Also, neither are the racers who took those drugs. However, if they
repent and ask for forgiveness they all deserve a second chance.

EPO was not banned in 1993, but in 1987. Ferrari's work with Riis, Ugrumov,
Berzin, Bobrik, Gotti, Furlan, etc. with its spectacular results concerning
their the hematocrite level in the season 1994-95. All of them kept their
mouth shut. The only one who repented was a certain Filippo Simeoni.

Benjo Maso

benjo maso said:

mouth shut. The only one who repented was a certain Filippo Simeoni.

You've been listening too much to a certain Paul Sherwin. :-)

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
Home: http://davidclary.com

benjo maso said:

Although some people seem to think Armstrong is God, he is not omnipresent,
so he can't know what has been going on between Simeoni and Ferrari. So who
is source? It can only be his good friend Ferrari. But do you also believe
in the integrity and soul of "dottore EPO", as he is nicknamed?

Benjo Maso

Bartali, Gotti, and Chiappucci all testified - their testimony is in
direct contradiction to Simeoni's.

Bartali's original testimony supported Simeoni, but then he recanted,
knowing that he would be prosecuted for changing his story (and he is).
Bartali said he was pressured by prosecutors to say Ferrari was an EPO
prescriber.

So . . . who's lying?

As I said earlier, it is way too early to label any of these guys as the
"truth" so just wait to see how it plays out. I think the move
Armstrong did on Simeoni was petty but there is a lot of that in racing.
If Armstrong truly thinks Simeoni was lying then his actions and
comments are understandable, at least to me.

No one knows *anything* about the truth here, so realize that all the
comments in these threads are pure speculation (i.e., talking out of the
back of their pants)

🙂

Bleet Norf said:

Bartali, Gotti, and Chiappucci all testified - their testimony is in
direct contradiction to Simeoni's.

Bartali's original testim

Bartali is dead.

JT

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bartali, Gotti, and Chiappucci all testified - their testimony is in
direct contradiction to Simeoni's.

Bartali's original testim

Bartali is dead.

Must have been the EPO.

Carl Sundquist said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bartali, Gotti, and Chiappucci all testified - their testimony is in
direct contradiction to Simeoni's.

Bartali's original testim

Bartali is dead.

Must have been the EPO.

Yes, indeedy . . . or maybe I meant Gianluca Bortolami... DOH!

Bleet Norf said:

Quoted message said:

Bartali, Gotti, and Chiappucci all testified - their testimony is in
direct contradiction to Simeoni's.

Bartali's original testim

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Bartali is dead.

The authorities are planning on testing the use of a lie detector during a
seance.

benjo maso said:

Quoted message said:

All of them kept their mouth shut. The only one who repented was a
certain Filippo Simeoni.

Dave Clary said:

You've been listening too much to a certain Paul Sherwin. :-)

Somehow I doubt whether Paul Sherwin's commentary is heard in the
Netherlands.

Here is some background information to the incident.
http://193.195.96.172/displayarticle.asp?pk=6762

I think if cycling wants to clean up doping, you have to draw a line and see
who is against doping, and who remains behind the code of silence. The
actions of Lance Armstrong and USPS and many other riders in the peloton
shows that they would rather remain behind the code of silence.

In procycing article Santoni (Domina Vacanze team Manager) made statements
about who in the peloton were against Simeoni, the whistle blower. They
include Mario Cipollini, Daniele Nardello, Giuseppe Guerini, Filippo
Pozzato, Andrea Peron.
Riders who supported Simeoni were Salvatore Commesso, Paolo Bettini,
Secchiari, Mori, Scarponi
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=342

"Takayasu Kenduma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i have been a fan of l.a. since i read his performances when amateur
in the settimana bergamasca and as soon as he become a pro his victory
in trofeo laigueglia.
also his braveness in oslo, what he did in the name of casartelli...
i was really shocked for his illness and i tried to write him an
email. in that time i started to use internet and i found his address
in this ng or a fan website, i can't remenber. i am sure there are
some messages of mine (with another nick) about that.
anyway... that's only to say i do really like him as a racer and as a
man, i am not against usa, i am not interested in politics and i don't
hate winners (but i also love losers if they are admirable).

BUT....
what he did against simeoni is so bad...
facts:
1) simeoni is a witness in the investigation in m.ferrari's
responsability in doping:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/jul01/jul30news.php

who is m.f:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2003/interviews/?id=ferrari03b

Quoted message said:

read the yellow box: an interview of 1994

2) simeoni never talked about other racers but himself but

3) Less than a year later, in March 2002 - after Armstrong's links
with Ferrari had become public knowledge - the American went on
Italian television to defend Ferrari. In the interview he also refuted
Simeoni's claims, saying that the Italian rider, who when first
interviewed by investigators had made no claims about using EPO, could
not be believed because he had changed his story.
The issue popped up again, at the Tour de France in 2003 when
Armstrong reiterated in the Le Monde article that Simeoni was lying.

btw: simeoni never talked about l.a. before that

4) Simeoni asking ?100,000 in damages from Armstrong
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2003/jul03/jul23news or

supercycling.co.zadefault(a).aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Conclusion
This querelle armstrong vs. simeoni remembers me THE UNTOUCHABLES
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094226/). like in the movie there is an
american against an italian but in this case:
armstrong = de niro
simeoni = costner

that's why now i am not a supporter of l.a. (and who had the same
behaviour in the peloton...pozzato, nardello, ekimov....)