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Lance sues for bonus

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Road Cycling
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16 September 2004
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Gary
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  1. From the Dallas Morning News:

    Lance sues to get bonus for Tour victory

    12:10 AM CDT on Thursday, September 16, 2004

    By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News

    A Dallas-based insurance company is balking at paying cyclist Lance
    Armstrong a $5 million bonus for winning the Tour de France, saying it
    wants to look into allegations that Armstrong used illegal
    performance-enhancing drugs.

    SCA Promotions Inc. said it has paid the $5 million into a custodial
    account until it determines whether "new allegations" made against
    Armstrong are true. "We're just asking the questions," SCA attorney John
    Bandy said Wednesday.

    Armstrong and Tailwind Sports Inc. filed a lawsuit in Dallas County
    state district court Tuesday seeking to make SCA pay up. As required in
    its contract with SCA, they asked to send the claim to arbitration, and
    Bandy said SCA supports that move.

    Tailwind owns the U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team and has Armstrong
    as its leading member. In 2001, it promised Armstrong a series of
    bonuses based on the number of consecutive Tour victories.

    Before the 2001 Tour de France, Tailwind paid SCA a $420,000 insurance
    premium to pay the bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

    SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 after Armstrong won his fourth
    Tour, and another $3 million after he won again in in 2003. But SCA
    withheld the $5 million bonus Armstrong was to receive after winning a
    sixth straight Tour this summer.

    Bandy said SCA learned of allegations in a newly published book, L.A.
    Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong, that quoted a former team
    employee saying Armstrong had used a banned blood booster and asked her
    to dispose of bags of syringes.

    "We believe the contract says we have to pay only if the event of a
    valid claim," Mr. Bandy said.

    In its suit, the plaintiffs said SCA has asked Armstrong and Tailwind to
    provide all of Armstrong's medical records and other records. Bandy said
    SCA will ask the arbitrator to order those records handed over.

    The plaintiffs said SCA didn't have the right to question his Tour
    victories, which were upheld by cycling authorities.

  2. Gary <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    From the Dallas Morning News:

    Lance sues to get bonus for Tour victory

    12:10 AM CDT on Thursday, September 16, 2004

    By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News

    A Dallas-based insurance company is balking at paying cyclist Lance
    Armstrong a $5 million bonus for winning the Tour de France, saying it
    wants to look into allegations that Armstrong used illegal
    performance-enhancing drugs.


    [snip]

    In other news: Major insurance companies covering structures and
    businesses in the path of Hurricane Ivan are insisting each claimant
    submit both a blood and urine specimen to USADA and cleared before any
    benefits will be paid out.

  3. Gary <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    From the Dallas Morning News:

    Lance sues to get bonus for Tour victory

    12:10 AM CDT on Thursday, September 16, 2004

    By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News

    A Dallas-based insurance company is balking at paying cyclist Lance
    Armstrong a $5 million bonus for winning the Tour de France, saying it
    wants to look into allegations that Armstrong used illegal
    performance-enhancing drugs.

    SCA Promotions Inc. said it has paid the $5 million into a custodial
    account until it determines whether "new allegations" made against
    Armstrong are true. "We're just asking the questions," SCA attorney John
    Bandy said Wednesday.

    Armstrong and Tailwind Sports Inc. filed a lawsuit in Dallas County
    state district court Tuesday seeking to make SCA pay up. As required in
    its contract with SCA, they asked to send the claim to arbitration, and
    Bandy said SCA supports that move.

    Tailwind owns the U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team and has Armstrong
    as its leading member. In 2001, it promised Armstrong a series of
    bonuses based on the number of consecutive Tour victories.

    Before the 2001 Tour de France, Tailwind paid SCA a $420,000 insurance
    premium to pay the bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

    SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 after Armstrong won his fourth
    Tour, and another $3 million after he won again in in 2003. But SCA
    withheld the $5 million bonus Armstrong was to receive after winning a
    sixth straight Tour this summer.

    Bandy said SCA learned of allegations in a newly published book, L.A.
    Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong, that quoted a former team
    employee saying Armstrong had used a banned blood booster and asked her
    to dispose of bags of syringes.

    "We believe the contract says we have to pay only if the event of a
    valid claim," Mr. Bandy said.

    In its suit, the plaintiffs said SCA has asked Armstrong and Tailwind to
    provide all of Armstrong's medical records and other records. Bandy said
    SCA will ask the arbitrator to order those records handed over.

    The plaintiffs said SCA didn't have the right to question his Tour
    victories, which were upheld by cycling authorities.

    <snerk.>

    Sure, he's going to ride the Giro next year... suuuuuuure...

  4. "Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    From the Dallas Morning News:

    Lance sues to get bonus for Tour victory

    12:10 AM CDT on Thursday, September 16, 2004

    By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News

    A Dallas-based insurance company is balking at paying cyclist Lance
    Armstrong a $5 million bonus for winning the Tour de France, saying it
    wants to look into allegations that Armstrong used illegal
    performance-enhancing drugs.

    SCA Promotions Inc. said it has paid the $5 million into a custodial
    account until it determines whether "new allegations" made against
    Armstrong are true. "We're just asking the questions," SCA attorney John
    Bandy said Wednesday.

    Armstrong and Tailwind Sports Inc. filed a lawsuit in Dallas County state
    district court Tuesday seeking to make SCA pay up. As required in its
    contract with SCA, they asked to send the claim to arbitration, and Bandy
    said SCA supports that move.

    Tailwind owns the U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team and has Armstrong
    as its leading member. In 2001, it promised Armstrong a series of bonuses
    based on the number of consecutive Tour victories.

    Before the 2001 Tour de France, Tailwind paid SCA a $420,000 insurance
    premium to pay the bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

    SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 after Armstrong won his fourth Tour,
    and another $3 million after he won again in in 2003. But SCA withheld the
    $5 million bonus Armstrong was to receive after winning a sixth straight
    Tour this summer.

    Bandy said SCA learned of allegations in a newly published book, L.A.
    Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong, that quoted a former team
    employee saying Armstrong had used a banned blood booster and asked her to
    dispose of bags of syringes.

    "We believe the contract says we have to pay only if the event of a valid
    claim," Mr. Bandy said.

    In its suit, the plaintiffs said SCA has asked Armstrong and Tailwind to
    provide all of Armstrong's medical records and other records. Bandy said
    SCA will ask the arbitrator to order those records handed over.

    The plaintiffs said SCA didn't have the right to question his Tour
    victories, which were upheld by cycling authorities.

    Interesting. According to Walsh and Ballester, one of the major sticking
    points between Cofidis and Armstrong was that Armstrong refused to provide
    any of his medical records to Cofidis. I'm curious to see how Armstrong's
    attorney react to the demand for all medical records. Fun times ahead.

  5. A Texas arbitrator. Nothing a coupla signed books can't fix.

    Lance will get paid.

  6. "crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A Texas arbitrator. Nothing a coupla signed books can't fix.

    Lance will get paid.

    Most likely an arbitrator with the American Arbitration Association.
    Interesting that after Armstrong allegedly threatens Prentiss Steffen with
    being tied up in legal knots due to his wealth, Armstrong now faces an
    insurance company with deep pockets that is not going to pay out $5 million
    without an interesting discovery process first.

    The first step will most likely be to ask the court to dismiss Armstrong's
    action and compel the parties to proceed with arbitration. BTW, arbitration
    is playing in the insurance company's ballpark. That's why they put
    arbitration clauses in their policies. Also, there is generally no appeal
    from an arbitrator's ruling. Also, if the arbitrator finds that Armstrong
    has been using illegal substances over a period of years, look for the
    insurance company to seek repayment of the monies they paid out in prior
    years.

    It is also unlikely that an arbitrator will see himself bound by res
    judicata regarding any "decisions" by the UCI and/or WADA.

    And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud dependent
    on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing.

    Interesting times ahead.

  7. Gary <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    From the Dallas Morning News:

    Lance sues to get bonus for Tour victory

    12:10 AM CDT on Thursday, September 16, 2004

    By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News

    A Dallas-based insurance company is balking at paying cyclist Lance
    Armstrong a $5 million bonus for winning the Tour de France, saying it
    wants to look into allegations that Armstrong used illegal
    performance-enhancing drugs.

    SCA Promotions Inc. said it has paid the $5 million into a custodial
    account until it determines whether "new allegations" made against
    Armstrong are true. "We're just asking the questions," SCA attorney John
    Bandy said Wednesday.

    Armstrong and Tailwind Sports Inc. filed a lawsuit in Dallas County
    state district court Tuesday seeking to make SCA pay up. As required in
    its contract with SCA, they asked to send the claim to arbitration, and
    Bandy said SCA supports that move.

    Tailwind owns the U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team and has Armstrong
    as its leading member. In 2001, it promised Armstrong a series of
    bonuses based on the number of consecutive Tour victories.

    Before the 2001 Tour de France, Tailwind paid SCA a $420,000 insurance
    premium to pay the bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

    SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 after Armstrong won his fourth
    Tour, and another $3 million after he won again in in 2003. But SCA
    withheld the $5 million bonus Armstrong was to receive after winning a
    sixth straight Tour this summer.

    Insurance, what a scam! Hehe... I wonder who the actuary was for
    SCA, who set the premium at only $420,000 I'm sure that Tailwind
    could have procured similar "Insurance" from English bookmakers,
    although I doubt that the odds against Armstrong success would have
    been set so high (i.e. Tailwind would have had to pay a higher
    "premium"😉 One wonders if Tailwind is insured through the 2005 TdF.
    Given the way that the payouts have escalated, it could be quite
    interesting. Since Lance now has to pay alimony, and keep Cheryl Crow
    in the manner to which she is accustomed, he may still be strongly
    motivated by the prospect of winning millions more.

    Quoted message said:


    Bandy said SCA learned of allegations in a newly published book, L.A.
    Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong, that quoted a former team
    employee saying Armstrong had used a banned blood booster and asked her
    to dispose of bags of syringes.

    "We believe the contract says we have to pay only if the event of a
    valid claim," Mr. Bandy said.

    In its suit, the plaintiffs said SCA has asked Armstrong and Tailwind to
    provide all of Armstrong's medical records and other records. Bandy said
    SCA will ask the arbitrator to order those records handed over.

    The plaintiffs said SCA didn't have the right to question his Tour
    victories, which were upheld by cycling authorities.

  8. In other words:

    "Check"

    Your move Lance!

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A Texas arbitrator. Nothing a coupla signed books can't fix.

    Lance will get paid.

    Most likely an arbitrator with the American Arbitration Association.
    Interesting that after Armstrong allegedly threatens Prentiss Steffen with
    being tied up in legal knots due to his wealth, Armstrong now faces an
    insurance company with deep pockets that is not going to pay out $5 million
    without an interesting discovery process first.

    The first step will most likely be to ask the court to dismiss Armstrong's
    action and compel the parties to proceed with arbitration. BTW, arbitration
    is playing in the insurance company's ballpark. That's why they put
    arbitration clauses in their policies. Also, there is generally no appeal
    from an arbitrator's ruling. Also, if the arbitrator finds that Armstrong
    has been using illegal substances over a period of years, look for the
    insurance company to seek repayment of the monies they paid out in prior
    years.

    It is also unlikely that an arbitrator will see himself bound by res
    judicata regarding any "decisions" by the UCI and/or WADA.

    And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud dependent
    on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing.

    Interesting times ahead.

  9. Isidor Gunsberg said:

    Insurance, what a scam! Hehe... I wonder who the actuary was for
    SCA, who set the premium at only $420,000 I'm sure that Tailwind
    could have procured similar "Insurance" from English bookmakers,
    although I doubt that the odds against Armstrong success would have
    been set so high (i.e. Tailwind would have had to pay a higher
    "premium"😉 One wonders if Tailwind is insured through the 2005 TdF.
    Given the way that the payouts have escalated, it could be quite
    interesting. Since Lance now has to pay alimony, and keep Cheryl Crow
    in the manner to which she is accustomed, he may still be strongly
    motivated by the prospect of winning millions more.

    Hey, Lafferty, what's the difference between this and gambling, anyway?


  10. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Armstrong and Tailwind Sports Inc. filed a lawsuit in Dallas County
    state district court Tuesday seeking to make SCA pay up. As required in
    its contract with SCA, they asked to send the claim to arbitration, and
    Bandy said SCA supports that move.

    Contract law is more powerful than anti-doping codes...

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Interesting. According to Walsh and Ballester, one of the major sticking
    points between Cofidis and Armstrong was that Armstrong refused to provide
    any of his medical records to Cofidis. I'm curious to see how Armstrong's
    attorney react to the demand for all medical records. Fun times ahead.

    They will obviously decline unless that was a condition of the policy.
    Anyone see the policy?
    ------------
    Alex

  12. "Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Interesting. According to Walsh and Ballester, one of the major sticking
    points between Cofidis and Armstrong was that Armstrong refused to provide
    any of his medical records to Cofidis. I'm curious to see how Armstrong's
    attorney react to the demand for all medical records. Fun times ahead.

    They will obviously decline unless that was a condition of the policy.
    Anyone see the policy?
    ------------
    Alex

    Producing the medical records has nothing to do with the terms of the
    policy. By commencing legal or arbitration action, Armstrong waives any
    privilege as to medical documents that are relevant to the claim or defense
    of the claim. If the issue is whether he used drugs, I would think his
    medical records would be of great interest to the insurance company's
    medical/doping expert. We might even discover whether or not he mad an
    admission to his cancer doc about using performance enhancing drugs. Look
    for the people in the room when the alleged admission was made to be
    subpoenaed to testify under oath.

    This is going to be great fun to watch......sort of like a slow motion train
    wreck.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>,

    B. Lafferty said:

    This is going to be great fun to watch......sort of like a slow motion train
    wreck.

    These words say so much about you, Brian, at least as regards this
    issue. Seems kind of sad to me.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
    Albert Einstein

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

  14. "Isidor Gunsberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Gary <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From the Dallas Morning News:

    Lance sues to get bonus for Tour victory

    12:10 AM CDT on Thursday, September 16, 2004

    By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News

    A Dallas-based insurance company is balking at paying cyclist Lance
    Armstrong a $5 million bonus for winning the Tour de France, saying it
    wants to look into allegations that Armstrong used illegal
    performance-enhancing drugs.

    SCA Promotions Inc. said it has paid the $5 million into a custodial
    account until it determines whether "new allegations" made against
    Armstrong are true. "We're just asking the questions," SCA attorney John
    Bandy said Wednesday.

    Armstrong and Tailwind Sports Inc. filed a lawsuit in Dallas County
    state district court Tuesday seeking to make SCA pay up. As required in
    its contract with SCA, they asked to send the claim to arbitration, and
    Bandy said SCA supports that move.

    Tailwind owns the U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team and has Armstrong
    as its leading member. In 2001, it promised Armstrong a series of
    bonuses based on the number of consecutive Tour victories.

    Before the 2001 Tour de France, Tailwind paid SCA a $420,000 insurance
    premium to pay the bonuses if Armstrong earned them.

    SCA paid a $1.5 million bonus in 2002 after Armstrong won his fourth
    Tour, and another $3 million after he won again in in 2003. But SCA
    withheld the $5 million bonus Armstrong was to receive after winning a
    sixth straight Tour this summer.

    Insurance, what a scam! Hehe... I wonder who the actuary was for
    SCA, who set the premium at only $420,000 I'm sure that Tailwind
    could have procured similar "Insurance" from English bookmakers,
    although I doubt that the odds against Armstrong success would have
    been set so high (i.e. Tailwind would have had to pay a higher
    "premium"😉 One wonders if Tailwind is insured through the 2005 TdF.
    Given the way that the payouts have escalated, it could be quite
    interesting. Since Lance now has to pay alimony, and keep Cheryl Crow
    in the manner to which she is accustomed, he may still be strongly
    motivated by the prospect of winning millions more.


    I think Sheryl is taking care of herself. I bet she has more money than
    he does anyway.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    Bandy said SCA learned of allegations in a newly published book, L.A.
    Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong, that quoted a former team
    employee saying Armstrong had used a banned blood booster and asked her
    to dispose of bags of syringes.

    "We believe the contract says we have to pay only if the event of a
    valid claim," Mr. Bandy said.

    In its suit, the plaintiffs said SCA has asked Armstrong and Tailwind to
    provide all of Armstrong's medical records and other records. Bandy said
    SCA will ask the arbitrator to order those records handed over.

    The plaintiffs said SCA didn't have the right to question his Tour
    victories, which were upheld by cycling authorities.

  15. Shouldn't that be "no check", your move.
    "kaiser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In other words:

    "Check"

    Your move Lance!

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A Texas arbitrator. Nothing a coupla signed books can't fix.

    Lance will get paid.

    Most likely an arbitrator with the American Arbitration Association.
    Interesting that after Armstrong allegedly threatens Prentiss Steffen


    with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    being tied up in legal knots due to his wealth, Armstrong now faces an
    insurance company with deep pockets that is not going to pay out $5


    million

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    without an interesting discovery process first.

    The first step will most likely be to ask the court to dismiss


    Armstrong's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    action and compel the parties to proceed with arbitration. BTW,


    arbitration

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is playing in the insurance company's ballpark. That's why they put
    arbitration clauses in their policies. Also, there is generally no


    appeal

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from an arbitrator's ruling. Also, if the arbitrator finds that


    Armstrong

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    has been using illegal substances over a period of years, look for the
    insurance company to seek repayment of the monies they paid out in prior
    years.

    It is also unlikely that an arbitrator will see himself bound by res
    judicata regarding any "decisions" by the UCI and/or WADA.

    And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud


    dependent

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing.

    Interesting times ahead.

  16. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...


    This is going to be great fun to watch......sort of like a slow motion


    train

    Quoted message said:

    wreck.

    Man, do you need help...

  17. Hi.

    Since I am an attorney, I thought I would weigh in with the legal side of
    this.

    I believe that Tailwind & Armstrong's suit is meritorious.

    The contract at issue (if Armstrong wins, Tailwind's contract obligates them
    to pay the bonus, and the contract with SCA provides that SCA indemnifies
    Tailwind) is a standard contract of insurance.

    A contract of insurance works simply as follows: "In consideration for the
    payment of premiums, the insurer promises that if the insured incurs a loss
    of type X, then the insurer will pay to the insured the amount of the loss,
    less any deductible."

    Now that is a simplistic example, and most insurance contracts contain
    exclusions.

    The contract between Tailwind and Armstrong, the performance of which the
    insurance contract secures, is simply an example of the classic "promise for
    an act" unilateral contract. Armstrong made no promises; Tailwind promised
    to pay him if he performed some act, here winning the Tour. (The example my
    contracts prof used was, "I promise to pay you $100 if you climb to the top
    of the flagpole."😉

    The key is how the "event" triggering the bonus, and hence the insurance
    claim, was worded. The insurance company doesn't get to come in and rewrite
    the contract -- it had a chance to read it before agreeing to insure it, and
    if it didn't like the terms (e.g.. thought it could be invoked by Armstrong
    taking illegal substances), they could have refused to insure the contract.
    Happens all the time. Title insurance contract doesn't like your house
    purchase contract, they refuse to insure your title.

    But having written the policy and collected the premiums, there are a very
    limited number of questions that can now be raised about it:

    1. Did Tailwind pay all premiums as and when due?
    2. Under the rules in effect at the time of the contest, and as determined
    by the Amaury Sports Organization, was Lance Armstrong the winner of the
    2004 Tour de France?

    If the answers to these questions are "yes," then Armstrong has earned the
    bonus, and the insurer may not ask other questions about it.

    Further, since it is a written contract, there is a doctrine called
    "merger," under which ALL terms the parties discussed are presumed to have
    been included in the written contract. So the insurer is not allowed to
    come along now and say, "Well, there was an implied condition that he not
    use drugs." Sorry. If you had wanted that in there, you could have written
    it in.

    Finally, since the INSURER wrote the contract of insurance (the insurer
    always does), if there is ANY ambiguity in the written contract, Tailwind &
    Armstrong get the benefit of that ambiguity being resolved in their favor.
    Ambiguities are resolved AGAINST the drafter, particularly in the case of
    form contracts, which insurance contracts always are (offered on a "take it
    or leave it" basis to the insured with no opportunity to negotiate terms).

    So, I think Armstrong & Tailwind should and will win any lawsuit on this.
    Speculation about whether Armstrong might have used drugs, when no drug test
    has so indicated and where the race organizers can be called as witnesses to
    say, "Yes, under our rules, Mr. Armstrong was the winner," are not going to
    be sufficient to defeat an otherwise valid contract.

    This is just a case where the insurer thought when it made the deal that it
    was a good deal (after all, NOBODY had ever won a 6th Tour), but subsequent
    events have proven otherwise, and so now they want out. I'm sure many
    property insurers in Florida would like to do that as well this year.

    Regards,

    Joseph J .Hurley, Esq.
    Attorney
    "gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Isidor Gunsberg said:

    Insurance, what a scam! Hehe... I wonder who the actuary was for
    SCA, who set the premium at only $420,000 I'm sure that Tailwind
    could have procured similar "Insurance" from English bookmakers,
    although I doubt that the odds against Armstrong success would have
    been set so high (i.e. Tailwind would have had to pay a higher
    "premium"😉 One wonders if Tailwind is insured through the 2005 TdF.
    Given the way that the payouts have escalated, it could be quite
    interesting. Since Lance now has to pay alimony, and keep Cheryl Crow
    in the manner to which she is accustomed, he may still be strongly
    motivated by the prospect of winning millions more.

    Hey, Lafferty, what's the difference between this and gambling, anyway?

  18. Again, as an attorney, I have to respond to some of these claims.

    "The first step will most likely be to ask the court to dismiss Armstrong's
    action and compel the parties to proceed with arbitration."

    That's not how it works. The defendant files a motion to refer the matter
    for arbitration. The plaintiff has an opportunity to oppose that motion, on
    whatever grounds. If the court grants the motion, the case is NOT
    dismissed, but is placed in hold pending the results of arbitration. Each
    party then picks an arbitrator, and the two pick a third. They then conduct
    hearings.

    The arbitrators will file a report proposing certain findings of fact and a
    resolution with the court.

    The defendant will file a motion to confirm the arbitrator's decision; the
    plaintiff will file an opposition to that motion and a motion to reject the
    decision and place the case on the trial list. The court will then decide
    if the arbitrator's decision was reasonable under the evidence presented.

    Only after the court approves the decision does it become a judgment of the
    court.

    "Armstrong now faces an insurance company with deep pockets that is not
    going to pay out $5 million without an interesting discovery process first."

    If the defendant seeks to enforce the arbitration provision of the contract,
    there will be NO discovery. Discovery is ONLY conducted in the context of a
    case going to a trial. Not relevant in the context of arbitration. So I'm
    confused by this statement, as it is inconsistent with the prior one.

    Second, what kind of discovery process? What is the insurance company going
    to ask for? Medical records, ok. Does ANYONE think that if Lance was using
    banned substances he would be stupid enough to see his regular doctor and
    thereby leave a paper trail lying around in his medical records? come now.
    They can't ask for records that don't exist. Further, if the discovery
    process devolves into a fishing expedition, there is a remedy for that --
    Armstrong's lawyers can file motions to quash the interrogatories that are
    not relevant to the issues in the case.

    If Armstrong's lawyers are smart. they will oppose any discovery having to
    do with medical records on the basis that the Tour de France organization
    having determined that, under its rules, Lance won the race, that is
    conclusive on the question of whether he won legitimately. (This whole
    story sounds like Gore suing Bush saying he should be collecting the annual
    Presidential salary and not Bush.) You can only demand through discovery
    two types of things: (a) things that would be admissible as evidence in the
    trial of the case or (b) information that is likely to lead to items that
    would be admissible as evidence. Medical records based on a claim that
    Lance's win is illegitimate does not fall under either of those. (See my
    other post, wherein I explain that the issues in this case are limited to
    whether he DID win under the rules in effect at the time of the race, not
    whether he should have won or won "fairly" in some generic sense.)

    If the insurer presses this, they will end up losing a lot of money, because
    if Lance gets his case to a jury in TEXAS, well, I wouldn't want to be the
    insurers' lawyer.

    "And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud dependent
    on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing."

    More evidence that the author does not know how arbitration works. There is
    no "record" as there is in a court trial. There is no transcript of
    proceedings. There is no court reporter or stenographer. The only document
    available at the end is the arbitrator's report.

    Furthermore, any alleged fraud, presumably based on Armstrong's prior
    collections from this insurance company, would have taken place in prior
    years and been completed then (the crime of insurance fraud is complete once
    the money is paid), starting the running of the statute of limitations.
    This is one year for most nonviolent property crimes, and would therefore
    have expired. Furthermore, again, "fraud" is a technical term which means:

    The intentional misrepresentation of a fact
    with intent to induce reliance thereon
    which reliance does take place
    to the detriment of the one relying.

    What fact was misrepresented? I believe Armstrong DID win the Tour in
    1999-2003, did he not? I saw him hold the trophy on the Champs Elysees. As
    I stated in my other post, that, and that alone, is the "fact" which
    triggers the insurer's liability to pay on the policy. Fraud in this context
    would be that Armstrong makes up phony video showing him as the winner when
    he in fact is not.

    You can't go and say in court that someone violated the rules of the sport
    to win where either (a) you have not attempted to contest the result by
    appeal to the judges of the event or (b) despite others contesting the
    result on the same basis, the sport's organizing bodies have decided it in
    the athlete's favor.

    Finally, even if it were proven beyond doubt that Armstrong used banned
    substances, anyone seeking to overturn his victory would have to PROVE that,
    absent the substances, he would not have won, and that X would have won
    instead. He didn't just win by a minute or two, but by six.

    So, I really think that this attempt to impeach Armstrong's victory by some
    other means will go nowhere, because the courts in the end will say, "Look,
    there's a procedure in the bicycling world to challenge Armstrong's
    victory -- complain to the STDF, the UCI, and finally the Court of
    Arbitration for Sport. Mr. Insurer, you did none of these. Having not done
    so, you can't come to this court and say we should overturn the results.
    Pay the amount agreed upon in the insurance contract -- you collected your
    premiums, the benefit of the contract; you are therefore bound by its
    burdens."

    Regards,

    Joseph Hurley, Esq.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >A Texas arbitrator. Nothing a coupla signed books can't fix.
    >
    > Lance will get paid.

    Most likely an arbitrator with the American Arbitration Association.
    Interesting that after Armstrong allegedly threatens Prentiss Steffen


    with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    being tied up in legal knots due to his wealth,


    .. BTW,

    Quoted message said:

    arbitration

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is playing in the insurance company's ballpark. That's why they put
    arbitration clauses in their policies. Also, there is generally no


    appeal

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from an arbitrator's ruling. Also, if the arbitrator finds that


    Armstrong

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    has been using illegal substances over a period of years, look for the
    insurance company to seek repayment of the monies they paid out in
    prior
    years.

    It is also unlikely that an arbitrator will see himself bound by res
    judicata regarding any "decisions" by the UCI and/or WADA.

    And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud


    dependent

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing.

    Interesting times ahead.

  19. "Joseph Hurley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Again, as an attorney, I have to respond to some of these claims.

    "The first step will most likely be to ask the court to dismiss
    Armstrong's action and compel the parties to proceed with arbitration."

    That's not how it works. The defendant files a motion to refer the matter
    for arbitration. The plaintiff has an opportunity to oppose that motion,
    on whatever grounds. If the court grants the motion, the case is NOT
    dismissed, but is placed in hold pending the results of arbitration. Each
    party then picks an arbitrator, and the two pick a third. They then
    conduct hearings.

    The arbitrators will file a report proposing certain findings of fact and
    a resolution with the court.

    The defendant will file a motion to confirm the arbitrator's decision; the
    plaintiff will file an opposition to that motion and a motion to reject
    the decision and place the case on the trial list. The court will then
    decide if the arbitrator's decision was reasonable under the evidence
    presented.

    Only after the court approves the decision does it become a judgment of
    the court.

    "Armstrong now faces an insurance company with deep pockets that is not
    going to pay out $5 million without an interesting discovery process
    first."

    If the defendant seeks to enforce the arbitration provision of the
    contract, there will be NO discovery. Discovery is ONLY conducted in the
    context of a case going to a trial. Not relevant in the context of
    arbitration. So I'm confused by this statement, as it is inconsistent
    with the prior one.

    Second, what kind of discovery process? What is the insurance company
    going to ask for? Medical records, ok. Does ANYONE think that if Lance
    was using banned substances he would be stupid enough to see his regular
    doctor and thereby leave a paper trail lying around in his medical
    records? come now. They can't ask for records that don't exist. Further,
    if the discovery process devolves into a fishing expedition, there is a
    remedy for that -- Armstrong's lawyers can file motions to quash the
    interrogatories that are not relevant to the issues in the case.

    If Armstrong's lawyers are smart. they will oppose any discovery having to
    do with medical records on the basis that the Tour de France organization
    having determined that, under its rules, Lance won the race, that is
    conclusive on the question of whether he won legitimately. (This whole
    story sounds like Gore suing Bush saying he should be collecting the
    annual Presidential salary and not Bush.) You can only demand through
    discovery two types of things: (a) things that would be admissible as
    evidence in the trial of the case or (b) information that is likely to
    lead to items that would be admissible as evidence. Medical records based
    on a claim that Lance's win is illegitimate does not fall under either of
    those. (See my other post, wherein I explain that the issues in this case
    are limited to whether he DID win under the rules in effect at the time of
    the race, not whether he should have won or won "fairly" in some generic
    sense.)

    If the insurer presses this, they will end up losing a lot of money,
    because if Lance gets his case to a jury in TEXAS, well, I wouldn't want
    to be the insurers' lawyer.

    "And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud dependent
    on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing."

    More evidence that the author does not know how arbitration works. There
    is no "record" as there is in a court trial. There is no transcript of
    proceedings. There is no court reporter or stenographer. The only
    document available at the end is the arbitrator's report.

    Furthermore, any alleged fraud, presumably based on Armstrong's prior
    collections from this insurance company, would have taken place in prior
    years and been completed then (the crime of insurance fraud is complete
    once the money is paid), starting the running of the statute of
    limitations. This is one year for most nonviolent property crimes, and
    would therefore have expired. Furthermore, again, "fraud" is a technical
    term which means:

    The intentional misrepresentation of a fact
    with intent to induce reliance thereon
    which reliance does take place
    to the detriment of the one relying.

    What fact was misrepresented? I believe Armstrong DID win the Tour in
    1999-2003, did he not? I saw him hold the trophy on the Champs Elysees.
    As I stated in my other post, that, and that alone, is the "fact" which
    triggers the insurer's liability to pay on the policy. Fraud in this
    context would be that Armstrong makes up phony video showing him as the
    winner when he in fact is not.

    You can't go and say in court that someone violated the rules of the sport
    to win where either (a) you have not attempted to contest the result by
    appeal to the judges of the event or (b) despite others contesting the
    result on the same basis, the sport's organizing bodies have decided it in
    the athlete's favor.

    Finally, even if it were proven beyond doubt that Armstrong used banned
    substances, anyone seeking to overturn his victory would have to PROVE
    that, absent the substances, he would not have won, and that X would have
    won instead. He didn't just win by a minute or two, but by six.

    So, I really think that this attempt to impeach Armstrong's victory by
    some other means will go nowhere, because the courts in the end will say,
    "Look, there's a procedure in the bicycling world to challenge Armstrong's
    victory -- complain to the STDF, the UCI, and finally the Court of
    Arbitration for Sport. Mr. Insurer, you did none of these. Having not
    done so, you can't come to this court and say we should overturn the
    results. Pay the amount agreed upon in the insurance contract -- you
    collected your premiums, the benefit of the contract; you are therefore
    bound by its burdens."

    Regards,

    Joseph Hurley, Esq.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    > "crit pro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    > >A Texas arbitrator. Nothing a coupla signed books can't fix.
    > >
    > > Lance will get paid.
    >
    > Most likely an arbitrator with the American Arbitration Association.
    > Interesting that after Armstrong allegedly threatens Prentiss Steffen


    with

    Quoted message said:

    > being tied up in legal knots due to his wealth,
    >


    . BTW,

    Quoted message said:

    arbitration

    Quoted message said:

    > is playing in the insurance company's ballpark. That's why they put
    > arbitration clauses in their policies. Also, there is generally no


    appeal

    Quoted message said:

    > from an arbitrator's ruling. Also, if the arbitrator finds that


    Armstrong

    Quoted message said:

    > has been using illegal substances over a period of years, look for the
    > insurance company to seek repayment of the monies they paid out in
    > prior
    > years.
    >
    > It is also unlikely that an arbitrator will see himself bound by res
    > judicata regarding any "decisions" by the UCI and/or WADA.
    >
    > And if there is a finding against Armstrong, look for the matter to be
    > turned over to a DA for possible prosecution for insurance fraud


    dependent

    Quoted message said:

    > on what evidence is taken at the arbitration hearing.
    >
    > Interesting times ahead.

    You might want to look at the "discovery rule" under Texas law as to when
    the statute of limitations begins to run. Also take a look at "fraudulent
    concealment" as an affirmative defense that effectively tolls the running of
    the statute of limitations under Texas law. The insurance company will argue
    that it has acted reasonably and that the Walsh book with its statements by
    those who worked with Armstrong is the first indication that they, as
    reasonably diligent persons, had as to possible fraud.

    If Armstrong won his Tours by perpetrating a fraud on ASO and that fraud has
    just now been discovered, it is unlikely that he will be able to rely on the
    initial determination of ASO as to his winning if that determination is
    itself the result of his fraudulent concealment of using illegal substances.

  20. I find it it interesting that Lance's Agent, Bill Stapleton, now owns
    Tailwind. How does one negotiate in this situation? Does he stare in
    the mirror?

    CH

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