Lance had to win back 16 seconds

"Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote .google.com...

Quoted message said:

Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

When did he give Basso a win?
You must be watching someting different.

Then again, you are more an egg-headed comic than someone serious. 😉

Quoted message said:

Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

Last time I checked 8+8 = 16 seconds

-Bob

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

Last time I checked 8+8 = 16 seconds

-Bob

Armstrong loses 16 seconds per day relative to Basso by switching places.
The difference between plus 8 seconds and minus 8 seconds is 16 seconds.

Over two days this equals 16 + 16 = 32 seconds

MB

"MB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

Last time I checked 8+8 = 16 seconds

-Bob

Armstrong loses 16 seconds per day relative to Basso by switching places.
The difference between plus 8 seconds and minus 8 seconds is 16 seconds.

Over two days this equals 16 + 16 = 32 seconds

que?

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as Basso.
Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

Thus the difference between the two, assuming that they finished 1st and 2nd
on both days and came in together, could never be more than 16 seconds.

Jeff

Quoted message said:

Armstrong loses 16 seconds per day relative to Basso by switching places.
The difference between plus 8 seconds and minus 8 seconds is 16 seconds.

Over two days this equals 16 + 16 = 32 seconds

MB

How do you figure this? Time bonus for first place is 20 seconds. Second
place bonus is 12 seconds. If Basso won both days, he would have gained 8
seconds per day on Armstrong - or 16 seconds. Since they switched places
today, their times are equal over two days.

-Bob

Jeff Jones' jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

"MB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
> represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

Last time I checked 8+8 = 16 seconds

-Bob

Armstrong loses 16 seconds per day relative to Basso by switching places.
The difference between plus 8 seconds and minus 8 seconds is 16 seconds.

Over two days this equals 16 + 16 = 32 seconds

que?

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as Basso.
Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

Thus the difference between the two, assuming that they finished 1st and 2nd
on both days and came in together, could never be more than 16 seconds.

Jeff

Right. I was getting tired of the ''New-Math''

It might apply in electioneering where a switched vote has a double
effect on the votes, eg: two candidates with 50 votes each. One voter
switches and the votes are then 51 against 49.

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 05:05:20 +1000, "Jeff Jones"

jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as Basso.
Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

But in actual fact, nobody ``loses anything'' although one does ``gain''
an 8 seconds advantage.

Go to http://www.letour.fr and do the arithmetic for yourself and make
the interpolations for one rider having won both stages.

You will find the official time delays are:

GC after stage 11
=================

Armstrong +09.35 Basso +10.52 B-A == 1.17 [Base Variance]

GC after stage 12 - Basso Prevails
=================

Armstrong +05.24 Basso +06.33 B-A == 1.09 [8 Seconds Advantage Basso]

GC after stage 13 - Armstrong Prevails
=================
Armstrong +00.22 Basso +01.39 B-A == 1.17 [Even Steven]

<Davey [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> writes:

Right. I was getting tired of the ''New-Math''

It might apply in electioneering where a switched vote has a double
effect on the votes, eg: two candidates with 50 votes each. One voter
switches and the votes are then 51 against 49.

I think I understand. The difference between the two is never more than 16
seconds, but when considering relative differences Lance is either + 16
seconds or - 16 seconds on Basso considering all possible outcomes.

But given that Basso won the first stage, Lance could never do more than
break even with Basso, i.e. + 0 seconds or -16 seconds.

My brain hurts.

Jeff

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as Basso.
Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

This isn't rocket science. If Lance won both days he would be 16 more
seconds ahead of Basso.

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:iscKc.102204$%_6.58894@attbi_s01...

Quoted message said:

"Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote .google.com...

Quoted message said:

Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

When did he give Basso a win?
You must be watching someting different.

Yeah, I agree. It's one thing for Lance to soft pedal and let Ivan take the
stage when he knows that he couldn't outsprint a cripple in a wheelschair
and Ivan can (barely). And another altogether to go hard for the line and
lose to Basso in a one up. You don't want to break your own morale so you
have to be careful that you only give your best when you know it's better
than the other guy's.

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong loses 16 seconds per day relative to Basso by switching

places.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The difference between plus 8 seconds and minus 8 seconds is 16 seconds.

Over two days this equals 16 + 16 = 32 seconds

MB

How do you figure this? Time bonus for first place is 20 seconds. Second
place bonus is 12 seconds. If Basso won both days, he would have gained 8
seconds per day on Armstrong - or 16 seconds. Since they switched places
today, their times are equal over two days.

-Bob

Hi Bob,

I agree with you that there is a 16 seconds relative difference between the
'Basso wins twice' situation and the 'both win once' situation.

But to me it seems that the first poster of this thread seems to compare the
'Basso wins twice' situation with the 'Armstrong wins twice' situation.

Imho it seems the poster is looking at the total of the two days. Armstrong
letting Basso win twice costs him 32 seconds.

MB

at. But if you read the first post of the thread the poster seems to say
that giving basso two stage wins would cost him 32 points. To me it seems
that the poster

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 05:05:20 +1000, "Jeff Jones"

jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as

Basso.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

In what world do you live where (+16) + (-16) = 32?

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 05:05:20 +1000, "Jeff Jones"

jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as Basso.
Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 05:05:20 +1000, "Jeff Jones"

jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as

Basso.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

I think they are talking about 'the swing'.

For example, LA wins and would get a 8 second bonus over Basso. Instead he
loses and is 8 seconds behind Basso. The time difference is 8 seconds, but
'the swing' is 16.

"Tom Kunich" <.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 05:05:20 +1000, "Jeff Jones"

jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than

Basso

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as

Basso.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

In what world do you live where (+16) + (-16) = 32?

32 is the spread between -16....0....+16

In flatland.
In an 11-dimensional, legal-specific, Blackhole Hawking radiation leaking,
freaking universe.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 05:05:20 +1000, "Jeff Jones"

jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than

Basso

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as

Basso.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

The difference between Basso at +16 and Basso at -16 is 32.

All relative to Armstrong.

In what world do you live where (+16) + (-16) = 32?

He meant:

16 - 32 = -16

in article [email hidden], Jeff Jones at
jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com wrote on 7/17/04 12:05 PM:

Quoted message said:

"MB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Armstrong couldn't give Basso another stage win, as that would have
> represented a 32 second loss in 2 days.

Last time I checked 8+8 = 16 seconds

-Bob

Armstrong loses 16 seconds per day relative to Basso by switching places.
The difference between plus 8 seconds and minus 8 seconds is 16 seconds.

Over two days this equals 16 + 16 = 32 seconds

que?

Armstrong wins both days = 40 seconds bonus = 16 seconds more than Basso
over both days
Armstrong wins one day (Basso wins one) = 32 seconds bonus = same as Basso.
Armstrong loses both days = 24 seconds bonus = 16 less than Basso

Thus the difference between the two, assuming that they finished 1st and 2nd
on both days and came in together, could never be more than 16 seconds.

If they wind up together again without anyone else for company, I'm calling
"fix."

-Sonarrat.

in article [email hidden], Jeff Jones at
jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com wrote on 7/17/04 1:17 PM:

Quoted message said:

<Davey [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> writes:

Right. I was getting tired of the ''New-Math''

It might apply in electioneering where a switched vote has a double
effect on the votes, eg: two candidates with 50 votes each. One voter
switches and the votes are then 51 against 49.

I think I understand. The difference between the two is never more than 16
seconds, but when considering relative differences Lance is either + 16
seconds or - 16 seconds on Basso considering all possible outcomes.

But given that Basso won the first stage, Lance could never do more than
break even with Basso, i.e. + 0 seconds or -16 seconds.

My brain hurts.

Jeff

Of course, he could have done better by actually finishing ahead of him.

-Sonarrat.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 20:46:48 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In what world do you live where (+16) + (-16) = 32?

16 - -16=32