Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take them
help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible exception
of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy showing no
effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins were
the only treatment.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 11:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

no..not "just"....he also had his affected testicle removed...and had chemo....

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take them
help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible exception
of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy showing no
effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins were
the only treatment.

Peter Moran

A number of studies by whom?????

http://www.healthy.net/bios/passwater/

http://weeksmd.com/articles/psychiatry/ABRAM_HOFFER.html

http://tinyurl.com/yu9qn

Jan

Gave you come across any papers or studies showing IV ascorbate of benefit
to cancer?
Thanks
Anth

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take them
help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible exception
of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy showing

no

Quoted message said:

effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins were
the only treatment.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

He also had metastatic cancer, which is one of the reasons why it is
surprising why he was cured with the treatmwents he took.
Anth

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 11:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

no..not "just"....he also had his affected testicle removed...and had

chemo....

Quoted message said:

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 8:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

He also had metastatic cancer, which is one of the reasons why it is
surprising why he was cured with the treatmwents he took.
Anth

he had very agressive chemo..at the time the stats were 65-85 % for a cure....
hawki.....

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He also had metastatic cancer, which is one of the reasons why it is
surprising why he was cured with the treatmwents he took.
Anth

Not at all. Metastatic testicular cancer has quite a good prognosis with
modern chemotherapy.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 11:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

no..not "just"....he also had his affected testicle removed...and had

chemo....

Quoted message said:

hawki.....

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gave you come across any papers or studies showing IV ascorbate of benefit
to cancer?
Thanks
Anth

I refer to Cameron's work at the Vale of Leven Hospital which suggested that
high dose IV vitamin C was having an effect on some cancers. Most of his
patients died and/or showed no effect, so that the results were not very
spectacula.. Neverthless Cameron had the background training and
experience for his observations to be taken seriously and he had a few
fairly impressive cases. A trial was done comparing his treatment to
normal care in advanced cancer which was purported to show some benefit, but
it was not properly controlled.

When the several Mayo clinic studies using high dose oral vitamin C showed
no effect, everyone probably shelved Vitamin C as a treatment. It is now
known that there are barriers to the absoprtion of Vitamin C orally in doses
over a gram, and the bodies tissues are saturated with vitamin C at daily
doses less than a gram (some alt.med authorities including Andrew Weil have
reduced their Vitamin recommendations accordingly). Much higher blood
concentrations are possible with intravenous use, so it remains possible
that the odd cancer will be affected by it. Cameron believed that he was
observing cancer necrosis in the patients who died, suggesting a direct
toxic effect of vitmain C on the cancers.

You could add this to Coley's toxins (properly used) as a once tried but
abandoned conventional treatment that may yet have benefits for the
occasional cancer patient.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible

exception

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy

showing

Quoted message said:

no

Quoted message said:

effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the only treatment.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

Spammin' Dave left out the rest of the interview. Here is a link:

http://tcrc.acor.org/lance.html

Why do Spammin' Alties like Dave feel a need to lie by ommission?

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

<[email hidden].

au>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take them
help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible

exception

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy showing

no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the only treatment.

Peter Moran

A number of studies by whom?????

Intelligent people.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 19, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]
Date: 4/19/2004 1:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/18/2004 12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

<[email hidden].

au>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> The reason Lance Armstrong got better?
>
> Did you use any alternative treatments?
>
> "Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take them
help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible

exception

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy showing

no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the only treatment.

Peter Moran

A number of studies by whom?????

Intelligent people.

Who can't back up their claims?

Organized medicine, intelligent doesn't mean a thing if one is dishonest and
denies real diseases.

It is noted you snipped the websites.

Too much truth for ya?? Shows Peter was WRONG??

Cowardly.

http://www.healthy.net/bios/passwater/

http://weeksmd.com/articles/psychiatry/ABRAM_HOFFER.html

http://tinyurl.com/yu9qn

Jan

Interesting stuff.
Are you saying that if I dissolve 4g of ascorbate into a juice and drink it
then the ascorbate won't get into the blood stream?
Also stressed animals manufacture more vitamin c than non stressed, and
there's no tests that I know of that show ascorbate absorption in stressed
humans..
Anth

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gave you come across any papers or studies showing IV ascorbate of

benefit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to cancer?
Thanks
Anth

I refer to Cameron's work at the Vale of Leven Hospital which suggested

that

Quoted message said:

high dose IV vitamin C was having an effect on some cancers. Most of

his

Quoted message said:

patients died and/or showed no effect, so that the results were not very
spectacula.. Neverthless Cameron had the background training and
experience for his observations to be taken seriously and he had a few
fairly impressive cases. A trial was done comparing his treatment to
normal care in advanced cancer which was purported to show some benefit,

but

Quoted message said:

it was not properly controlled.

When the several Mayo clinic studies using high dose oral vitamin C showed
no effect, everyone probably shelved Vitamin C as a treatment. It is now
known that there are barriers to the absoprtion of Vitamin C orally in

doses

Quoted message said:

over a gram, and the bodies tissues are saturated with vitamin C at daily
doses less than a gram (some alt.med authorities including Andrew Weil

have

Quoted message said:

reduced their Vitamin recommendations accordingly). Much higher blood
concentrations are possible with intravenous use, so it remains possible
that the odd cancer will be affected by it. Cameron believed that he was
observing cancer necrosis in the patients who died, suggesting a direct
toxic effect of vitmain C on the cancers.

You could add this to Coley's toxins (properly used) as a once tried but
abandoned conventional treatment that may yet have benefits for the
occasional cancer patient.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> The reason Lance Armstrong got better?
>
> Did you use any alternative treatments?
>
> "Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

help?

Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible

exception

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of high dose intravenous vitamin C.

A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy

showing

Quoted message said:

no

Quoted message said:

effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the only treatment.

Peter Moran

>
>
>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 19, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]
Date: 4/19/2004 1:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
>From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
>Date: 4/18/2004 12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]

..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

au>

Quoted message said:

>
>
>"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>> The reason Lance Armstrong got better?
>>
>> Did you use any alternative treatments?
>>
>> "Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."
>
>If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>help?
>
>Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible

exception

Quoted message said:

>of high dose intravenous vitamin C.
>
>A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy

showing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no

Quoted message said:

>effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins

were

Quoted message said:

>the only treatment.
>
>Peter Moran

A number of studies by whom?????

Intelligent people.

Who can't back up their claims?

No. They first did the study, examined what they found, and used the facts
to back up their claims.

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine, intelligent doesn't mean a thing if one is dishonest

and

Quoted message said:

denies real diseases.

Denying MCS and ARI is denying unreal diseases.

Quoted message said:

It is noted you snipped the websites.

Always. Count on it.

Quoted message said:

Too much truth for ya?? Shows Peter was WRONG??

No. Shows you do not have a clue.

BTW, I have been following Passwater for over a decade, ever since he
claimed, incorrectly, that pycnogenol was a treatment for ADHD and I
subjected my son to its uselessness.

Dave Wickware said:

The reason Lance Armstrong got better?

Quoted message said:

Did you use any alternative treatments?

"Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."

He had SURGERY and CHEMOTHERAPY ... without them the vitamins
would not have worked.

Tsu Dho Nimh

--
When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
your kid and run for your life.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

Interesting stuff.
Are you saying that if I dissolve 4g of ascorbate into a juice and drink it
then the ascorbate won't get into the blood stream?

Why should it? You don't have an unlimited ability to absorb any
nutrient. You're limited by the capacity of the transport pathways.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 19, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]
Date: 4/20/2004 2:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 19, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]
Date: 4/19/2004 1:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
> >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
> >Date: 4/18/2004 12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id:
>

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

au>
> >
> >
> >"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >news:[email hidden]...
> >> The reason Lance Armstrong got better?
> >>
> >> Did you use any alternative treatments?
> >>
> >> "Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking them."
> >
> >If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to take

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >help?
> >
> >Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible
exception
> >of high dose intravenous vitamin C.
> >
> >A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy

showing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no
> >effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where vitamins
were
> >the only treatment.
> >
> >Peter Moran
>
> A number of studies by whom?????

Intelligent people.

Who can't back up their claims?

No. They first did the study, examined what they found, and used the facts
to back up their claims.

Do prove it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine, intelligent doesn't mean a thing if one is dishonest

and denies real diseases.

Quoted message said:

Denying MCS and ARI is denying unreal diseases.

Liar Liar Liar.

Quoted message said:

It is noted you snipped the websites.

Always. Count on it.

Sadly you don't want to show what works.

Quoted message said:

Too much truth for ya?? Shows Peter was WRONG??

No. Shows you do not have a clue.

Sorry, insults don't work, they just show your character.

Quoted message said:

BTW, I have been following Passwater for over a decade, ever since he
claimed, incorrectly, that pycnogenol was a treatment for ADHD and I
subjected my son to its uselessness.

Excuse me, if i don't believe you, you seemed to have tried so many things.

Dr. Passwater's discoveries have led to world-wide recognition. He has been
twice honored by the Committee For World Health (1978 and 1980). In 1973, he
was nominated for the American Chemical Society’s Award in Chemical
Education.

Your attempt to belittle this is very telling.

Of course, we all know you push Ritalin.

Drug um up should be your sig line.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 19, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t
[email hidden]
Date: 4/20/2004 2:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
>From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 19, 2004" M.a.r.kP.r.o.b.e.r.t
>[email hidden]
>Date: 4/19/2004 1:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>
>
>"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>> >Subject: Re: Lance Armstrong Cancer Cure...
>> >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
>> >Date: 4/18/2004 12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
>> >Message-id:
>>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]

m

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.

Quoted message said:

>au>
>> >
>> >
>> >"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email hidden]...
>> >> The reason Lance Armstrong got better?
>> >>
>> >> Did you use any alternative treatments?
>> >>
>> >> "Vitamins...I always took vitamins, I just continued taking

them."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> >
>> >If they didn't stop him getting cancer, why would continuing to

take

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them

Quoted message said:

>> >help?
>> >
>> >Vitamins have no effect on established cancer, with the possible
>exception
>> >of high dose intravenous vitamin C.
>> >
>> >A number of studies have been done using oral megavitamin therapy

showing

Quoted message said:

>no
>> >effect, and it is also very rare to find a testimonial where

vitamins

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>were
>> >the only treatment.
>> >
>> >Peter Moran
>>
>> A number of studies by whom?????
>
>Intelligent people.

Who can't back up their claims?

No. They first did the study, examined what they found, and used the

facts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to back up their claims.

Do prove it.

Back to that weasel again. They were published scientific studies, conducted
by the method I described.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Organized medicine, intelligent doesn't mean a thing if one is

dishonest

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and denies real diseases.

Quoted message said:

Denying MCS and ARI is denying unreal diseases.

Liar Liar Liar.

No, I am telling the truth. You just cannot handle it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is noted you snipped the websites.

Always. Count on it.

Sadly you don't want to show what works.

Wrong. I do not want to publicize bad and evil advice.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Too much truth for ya?? Shows Peter was WRONG??

No. Shows you do not have a clue.

Sorry, insults don't work, they just show your character.

I was describing on your lack of insight and knowledge. It is not my fault
that you feel insulted, since it is your lack of knowledge and insight that
show you do not have a clue.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW, I have been following Passwater for over a decade, ever since he
claimed, incorrectly, that pycnogenol was a treatment for ADHD and I
subjected my son to its uselessness.

Excuse me, if i don't believe you, you seemed to have tried so many

things.

I have?

Please list, with cites, all of the alternatives I have ever tried? I'll
give you a hint...the list is short and does not include pycnogenol.

Quoted message said:

Dr. Passwater's discoveries have led to world-wide recognition. He has

been

Quoted message said:

twice honored by the Committee For World Health (1978 and 1980). In 1973,

he

Quoted message said:

was nominated for the American Chemical Society's Award in Chemical
Education.

Sounds so EOM to me. He was wrong on pycnogenol. No one, not even me (I knw
it is hard to beleive) is perfect.

Quoted message said:

Your attempt to belittle this is very telling.

I made no belittling remark wrt Passwater.

Quoted message said:

Of course, we all know you push Ritalin.

Yes, a safe and effective treatment for a real disorder.

Quoted message said:

Drug um up should be your sig line.

Nope. "Treat them properly" is.

Quoted message said:

Jan

So looking at Dr. Passwater's bio.

He got a bachelor's degree in Chemistry from the U of Delaware in 1959,
then got a Ph,d from a mail order correspondence school called Borolean
University in Nevada in 1975. Apparently this "university" couldn't get
accredited by the State of Nevada, as it moved to California, where it
still can't get accredited. It also maintains a "sister" correspondence
law school, which according to the State Bar of California, also is
unaccredited. I have no idea of the standing of its correspondence
"divinity school".

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So looking at Dr. Passwater's bio.

He got a bachelor's degree in Chemistry from the U of Delaware in 1959,
then got a Ph,d from a mail order correspondence school called Borolean
University in Nevada in 1975. Apparently this "university" couldn't get
accredited by the State of Nevada, as it moved to California, where it
still can't get accredited. It also maintains a "sister" correspondence
law school, which according to the State Bar of California, also is
unaccredited. I have no idea of the standing of its correspondence
"divinity school".

Unaccredited schools of divinity can be a dangerous place, especially if He
gets upset with their antics. If you live near one, let me suggest:

http://tinyurl.com/32waa

I may still have a few laying around the back of the garage...