Lamps and brakes

Wally said:

My front lamp is dreadful - it came as a set of front & rear from
Asda when I bought the bike. They're both those flat slimline
thingies with 5 LEDs. The rear one is fine - nice and bright red, but
the front is a really [censored] dull green. The set cost about a quid more
than the single rear lamp, so I'm not breaking my heart. I am looking
for a better front light, however. Requirements...

Generally speaking, I don't do roads - I live in a civilised country,
where one is not only allowed to cycle on paths, it's positively
encouraged to the extent that the council put cycle route signs up
all over the place. They're mostly well lit, but there are dark bits.
So, I have a need to be seen by peds, who may or may not be drunk. I
also have a need to see where I'm going on unlit bendy paths through
trees (not sheep trails, you understand, but proper paths made by YTS
job-dodgers).

I asume that anything with 'halogen' or 'krypton' on the packet is a
false economy in these days of suntan-at-50-paces LED illumination.

It's not all that straightforward because only the very best (and very
expensive) LED lights are as bright as pretty ordinary halogens. On the
other hand, something like the Cateye EL500 or Smart Nova (cheaper) may be
powerful enough for cycle-path speeds, depending on how fast you worry the
peds on the cycle paths ;-)

Quoted message said:

I think that means that I'm looking for something LED-based which does
proper search beam stuff for seeing by, and super-economy flashing
mode to warn the [censored] peds that a velocipedist is about to mow them
down. If that makes sense, what would the panel recommend from the
range of LED front lights that are available for up to 40 quid or so?
At this price, Im thinking of the EL500 and EL510 Cateye jobbies. Is
there anything with comparable light output and run time for less
money?

Smart Nova, although apparently the light beam is wider and less focussed.
I don't think either have flashing modes, though. A flashing mode isn't so
needed when the light is very bright. Alternatively, you could have a cheap
flashing light in addition to a steady one -- either a steady LED or a
modest halogen light that you could turn on just for the dark bits (then
turn off again to conserve batteries, as run time will be limited).

Quoted message said:

Are all of the lower priced Cateye ones meant for being seen,
rather than seeing with?

That's all they're particularly good for.

~PB

Wally said:

Generally speaking, I don't do roads - I live in a civilised country, where
one is not only allowed to cycle on paths, it's positively encouraged to the
extent that the council put cycle route signs up all over the place. They're
mostly well lit, but there are dark bits. So, I have a need to be seen by
peds, who may or may not be drunk. I also have a need to see where I'm going
on unlit bendy paths through trees (not sheep trails, you understand, but
proper paths made by YTS job-dodgers).

Riding on the road and using a cheap white "be seen" LED light will
solve your problems and be safer.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Pete Biggs said:

It's not all that straightforward because only the very best (and very
expensive) LED lights are as bright as pretty ordinary halogens. On
the other hand, something like the Cateye EL500 or Smart Nova
(cheaper) may be powerful enough for cycle-path speeds, depending on
how fast you worry the peds on the cycle paths ;-)

Been doing some more searching, and it would seem that there are some pretty
cheap rechargable ones to be had around the same price. I can lve with
rechargable, provided there's decent runtime, and they don't discharge
dramatically when not in use.

Quoted message said:

Smart Nova, although apparently the light beam is wider and less
focussed. I don't think either have flashing modes, though. A
flashing mode isn't so needed when the light is very bright.
Alternatively, you could have a cheap flashing light in addition to a
steady one -- either a steady LED or a modest halogen light that you
could turn on just for the dark bits (then turn off again to conserve
batteries, as run time will be limited).

Smart look like a good value brand - their twin-lamp Enduro one is
interesting - 10W, 2.4W, 1xLED, lead acid battery, charger-with-brain.
There's a NMH version as well How do lead acid and NiMH compare?

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Wally said:

Smart look like a good value brand - their twin-lamp Enduro one is
interesting - 10W, 2.4W, 1xLED, lead acid battery, charger-with-brain.
There's a NMH version as well How do lead acid and NiMH compare?

Unless you are worried by weight, lead acid are much more robust than
NiMH at the expense of weight. The Cateye RC230 is quite a good budget
one and if you can find the version with just one 10W lamp it is both
cheaper and more than adequate for your use where you are not competing
with car headlights.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Wally said:

I don't deny the right of others to assert that bikes are legitimate
vehicles and should be treated as such, but I have no interest whatsoever in
riding on the road. There is no requirement to stick to the cycle routes
that have been built, or stay away from paths that aren't on designated
cycle routes - the cycle route signs are to aid navigation. Like I said,
civilised - by intention, from the day the first sod was cut and the first
foundation laid. I sympathise with those who in Olde Worlde towns that
aren't conducive to this sort of layout, but your 'problem' doesn't exist
here.

Have you read John Franklin (the Cyclecraft author) on the Milton Keynes
Redways? He is less than impressed.

http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/infra.html

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Tony Raven said:

Have you read John Franklin (the Cyclecraft author) on the Milton
Keynes Redways? He is less than impressed.

I just did. This isn't Milton Keynes. The main dual carriageway up the
middle of town has a 50mph limit, as do most roads outside town. Main routes
withn town are 40mph, and roads in residental areas are 30 and 20. I don't
see cyclists on the dual carriageway, but they do use the other roads. This
town isn't touted as a cycling nirvana, so maybe it doesn't encourage every
safety-oblivious numpty and his dog to take up cycling, only to find out the
hard way that they have [censored] anticipation and can't maintain their bikes.
Apart from Halfords and JJB Sports, it does't even have an LBS (40,000-odd
inhabitants).

I've searched several times for references to accidents in this town
involving cyclists (on either roads or paths), and I haven't found any. I
can't say they don't happen, but the info doesn't seem to make it online, to
the archives of the local papers, mentioned in online docs like government
stats, etc.

To be honest, I see little to concern me about the fact that M-K has
cyclists falling over or hitting things on its redways - how, exactly, is
that relevant to me, in my circumstances? I have a bike, I prefer to avoid
the roads, therefore I'll fall over? Therefore, what I'm doing is unsafe?
Therefore, due to some arbitrary set of events several hundred miles away,
I'm 'more likely' to have an accident? I *really* don't think so.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Wally said:

To be honest, I see little to concern me about the fact that M-K has
cyclists falling over or hitting things on its redways - how, exactly, is
that relevant to me, in my circumstances? I have a bike, I prefer to avoid
the roads, therefore I'll fall over? Therefore, what I'm doing is unsafe?
Therefore, due to some arbitrary set of events several hundred miles away,
I'm 'more likely' to have an accident? I *really* don't think so.

Except that Milton Keynes is just one example. In the UK the Stevenage
cycleways have similar problems as do ones overseas. Is it possible
that where you cycle the world is different from elsewhere - yes. Is it
likely - no.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Tony Raven said:

Unless you are worried by weight, lead acid are much more robust than
NiMH at the expense of weight.

If robust comes for an extra 1-200 grammes, I could live with that. Mainly,
I want good capacity and longevity. The ability to replace without having to
buy something manufacturer-specific would be nice.

Quoted message said:

The Cateye RC230 is quite a good
budget one and if you can find the version with just one 10W lamp it
is both cheaper and more than adequate for your use where you are not
competing with car headlights.

Duly noted. The Smart Enduro is 35 quid from ChainReaction - if it's decent
qualty, that does sound like a very good deal. (I don't know if the two
lamps on this one have the same dispersion, or whether one is wide and one
long.)

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Tony Raven said:

Except that Milton Keynes is just one example. In the UK the
Stevenage cycleways have similar problems as do ones overseas. Is it
possible that where you cycle the world is different from elsewhere -
yes. Is it likely - no.

What does "likely" mean in this context? More specifically, should this
notion be of any particular concern to me, and, if so, why?

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Tony Raven said:

Wally wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Smart look like a good value brand - their twin-lamp Enduro one is
interesting - 10W, 2.4W, 1xLED, lead acid battery, charger-with-brain.
There's a NMH version as well How do lead acid and NiMH compare?

Quoted message said:

Unless you are worried by weight, lead acid are much more robust than
NiMH at the expense of weight. The Cateye RC230 is quite a good budget
one and if you can find the version with just one 10W lamp it is both
cheaper and more than adequate for your use where you are not competing
with car headlights.

I do wish someone would legislate to put a stop to the absurd
escalations of the Illumination Wars. I return home via a long narrow
road which in the dark is festooned with badly parked cars creating
accidental one way bottlenecks, and cover behind which camouflaged
pedestrians can lurk before walking into one's path looking the other
way. Fortunately there is good street lighting and the road can be
safely navigated without lights at a good speed. If it wasn't for the
oncoming cars, most of whose "dipped" lights aren't, and some of whom
have these moredern high intensity lights that actually hurt my
eyes. So a lot of the time I can hardly see a damn thing.

Which is what makes a lot of these fools go and buy even more powerful
headlights, whereas what is needed is that all dump their "see by"
lights and switch over to "seen by" lights. If they all did that, we'd
all be able to see everything *very* much better.

I'd like the law to make a clear distinction between lights to see by
and lights to be seen by, and to make it illegal where good street
lighting in is in place to use "see by" lights. "Seen by" lights should
have a wide variety of powers available so that they can be used in
night time urban streets or when you're coming out of the setting sun.

Using headlights as "seen by" lights in daytime is sometimes
counterproductive, as they are often too bright and obscure the
position and speed of the vehicle.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Wally said:

Tony Raven said:

Unless you are worried by weight, lead acid are much more robust than
NiMH at the expense of weight.

If robust comes for an extra 1-200 grammes, I could live with that. Mainly,
I want good capacity and longevity. The ability to replace without having to
buy something manufacturer-specific would be nice.

I have just replaced the battery on my Smart two lamp setup. Yes it is
heavy, but I'd be better off losing the weight from me than the lights
(I look on it as extra training, and when I am towing the trailer it
doesn't make much odds. The replacement was a standard size SLA from
Maplin.

The same battery is used in many SLA setups.

...d

David Martin said:

I have just replaced the battery on my Smart two lamp setup. Yes it is
heavy, but I'd be better off losing the weight from me than the lights
(I look on it as extra training, and when I am towing the trailer it
doesn't make much odds. The replacement was a standard size SLA from
Maplin.

The same battery is used in many SLA setups.

Aha - what's the amp-hour rating, and what does it weigh? (Maplin p/n?)

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

I submit that on or about Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:49:09 GMT, the person
known to the court as "Wally" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's
bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

With regard to safety, the town I live in was designed, from the get-go, to
keep motor vehicle traffic seperate from everything else - the whole place
is criss-crossed with wide paths, with underpasses, bridges and crossings at
intersections with roads.

Sounds like Milton Keynes. Needless to say the cycle path network has
a worse accident record than the roads...

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

in message <[email hidden]>, Wally

(') said:

There's a NMH version as well How do lead acid and NiMH compare?

Lead-acid batteries have high weight and low energy density. That means
that if they're to store a reasonable amount of energy they're very
heavy. This may not matter too much in Holland or Norfolk, but you don't
want to be lugging one up an Edinburgh hill.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous

Wally said:

What does "likely" mean in this context? More specifically, should this
notion be of any particular concern to me, and, if so, why?

Likely means its very likely that the routes you cycle on are more
dangerous than the roads. Should it be of concern? Well cycling is
extremely safe so probably not. But if you were cycling on the paths
because you believed it was safer then you now know it probably isn't.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Wally

(') said:

There's a NMH version as well How do lead acid and NiMH compare?

Lead-acid batteries have high weight and low energy density. That means
that if they're to store a reasonable amount of energy they're very
heavy. This may not matter too much in Holland or Norfolk, but you don't
want to be lugging one up an Edinburgh hill.

Last time I did that it was probably the full load of camping gear that
contributed more to my slow pace.
Generally they will slow you down a bit as they are heavy, but they are
quite reliable and cheap.
For a reasonably short commute they are fine. I used to do 25k each way
in Oslo with mine and didn't find it a problem.

I get 8 hours run time for essentially 1 kg extra weight. If I was
racing or Audaxing at night I would definitely examine lighter
alternatives, but for short [1] non-performance trips they are fine.

...d

[1] by short I mean less than a couple of hours. The difference in time
caused by the extra weight is probably only of note to performance
cyclists.

Tony Raven said:

Likely means its very likely that the routes you cycle on are more
dangerous than the roads. ...

Very likely that the routes I cycle on are more dangerous than the roads? On
precisely what data do you predicate this assertion?

Quoted message said:

... Should it be of concern? Well cycling is
extremely safe so probably not. But if you were cycling on the paths
because you believed it was safer then you now know it probably isn't.

In other words, you mean *statistically* safer - on the basis of statistics
garnered from Not Here. Do the stats you cite describe the riders that were
involved in each of the accidents? How many of those riders had a profile
that matches mine? Indeed, what *is* my profile as a cyclist?

What age am I? How fit am I? Do all five of my senses work normally? What
experience of operating transport do I have, and is it sufficient to give me
road sense and some worthwhile ability to anticipate? Do I maintain my bike
properly, or the have sense to ensure that someone does it for me? Am I a
speed freak? A scenery admirer? Why do I get on a bike at all?

How many M-K (and elsewhere) riders match my profile, and how many of *them*
were involved in accidents on cycle paths?

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Wally said:

Tony Raven said:

Likely means its very likely that the routes you cycle on are more
dangerous than the roads. ...

Very likely that the routes I cycle on are more dangerous than the roads? On
precisely what data do you predicate this assertion?

Plenty of research data from around the world very little if any of
which shows that cyclepaths are less dangerous than roads

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... Should it be of concern? Well cycling is
extremely safe so probably not. But if you were cycling on the paths
because you believed it was safer then you now know it probably isn't.

In other words, you mean *statistically* safer - on the basis of statistics
garnered from Not Here. Do the stats you cite describe the riders that were
involved in each of the accidents? How many of those riders had a profile
that matches mine? Indeed, what *is* my profile as a cyclist?

What age am I? How fit am I? Do all five of my senses work normally? What
experience of operating transport do I have, and is it sufficient to give me
road sense and some worthwhile ability to anticipate? Do I maintain my bike
properly, or the have sense to ensure that someone does it for me? Am I a
speed freak? A scenery admirer? Why do I get on a bike at all?

How many M-K (and elsewhere) riders match my profile, and how many of *them*
were involved in accidents on cycle paths?

Have I touched a nerve? Yes, statistically safer. As I said before it
is possible the "Here" is very different to all of "Not Here" but
unlikely. So the probability is very much that the statistics apply
equally to you and where you cycle and there is much more reason to
believe they do than believe they don't.

As to your age, fitness etc etc, I guess you are one of the 90% of
people who have above average skill so the statistics won't apply to you.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Tony Raven said:

Plenty of research data from around the world very little if any of
which shows that cyclepaths are less dangerous than roads

But no data about the cycle paths and roads in my town.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How many M-K (and elsewhere) riders match my profile, and how many
of *them* were involved in accidents on cycle paths?

Quoted message said:

Have I touched a nerve?

No. I just happen to be of the view that, since there doesn't seem to be any
data regarding cycling accidents in my town, then your contention is moot.
Your assertions aren't predcated on facts pertaining to where I am. You're
arguing, in a vaccuum of facts, that it's likely that the cycle paths here
are more dangerous than the roads, because you happen to think that this
town is likely to be like others which have poor cycle path accident
records.

I'm sorry, but I just don't accept that form of arument. It's empiricist,
fantasy-based pish of the highest order. You know sod-all about me. You
don't even know where I am, never mind its accident stats. Yet you make some
sweeping statement about the likelihood of me having an accident on a cycle
path here compared to a road, based on inference and no real information
about that which you make your assertion.

I put it to you that you have no valid basis for asserting that I am more
likely to have an accident on a local cycle path than I am on a local road -
you simply aren't in possession of sufficient information to draw an
inference one way or another.

--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk