Laff, call your therapist

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sigmund called and left a message. He says you
guys need to talk, give him a call to set up
an appointment.

Frankly, I have never quite understood that animosity against Brian
Lafferty. True, I am not always reading all of his postings. But have I
missed something scandalous or outrageous?

Benjo

Not exactly animousity Benjo, more like extreme irritation. Lafferty is
the mote in God's eye.

I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
or links to articles in French.

Scott said:

I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
or links to articles in French.

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

"mtb Dad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
or links to articles in French.

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

Obviously, Brian hasn't threatened to sue you or involve your employer.

mtb Dad said:

Scott said:

I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
or links to articles in French.

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

Some of the people most frustrated with Laff acknowledge that
doping is real. Laff's fixation on LANCE makes it difficult to
have a meaningful discussion and becomes just a little repetitive.
Also, if you try to conduct a rational argument with Laff he
frequently resorts to sophistry, and finally just starts responding
"Whatever" to anything he doesn't like. It's like listening to
Scotty "Robot" McClellan sometimes.

Posting articles in French isn't a cardinal sin. Crowing about
the content of the articles without translating any of the good
bits is a little tedious though.

And shooting the messenger is what we do best around here.
It's important to know your strengths.

mtb Dad said:

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

OK, two questions for you...

1) Why do you say there is ignorance of the problem of doping
in sport? Yes, I said 'sport' not 'cycling'. If my kid ever
gets the idea that sport (yes, I said 'sport' not 'cycling'😉
is an acceptable career choice it sure as hell isn't going
to come from me. And if it ever does happen I will ream the
source, let me tell you.

2) Did you fire off that letter to Dubya yet?

And here's a word of advice. If you bring the same message over
and over, even after it has been received and understood... yes
if you keep bringing it in the mistaken belief that you have not
gotten through... You too will be a shot messenger.

Bob Schwartz

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mtb Dad said:

Scott said:

I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
or links to articles in French.

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

Some of the people most frustrated with Laff acknowledge that
doping is real. Laff's fixation on LANCE makes it difficult to
have a meaningful discussion and becomes just a little repetitive.
Also, if you try to conduct a rational argument with Laff he
frequently resorts to sophistry, and finally just starts responding
"Whatever" to anything he doesn't like. It's like listening to
Scotty "Robot" McClellan sometimes.

If you bother to look at my posting here at rbr back to 1994 regarding drugs
in cycling, you will see that Armstrong is but a very small part of what I
have raised and questioned. You will also see that I have posted
information about and commented on numerous other dopers in the peloton and
amateur ranks since 1999. Rational argument is something that I have
repeatedly attempted to engage in on the drugs issue, in spite of the
personal attacks in response and refusal of others to discuss the topic with
something less than vitriol. The reason people are so agitated now is that
rbr these days is primarily populated by US cyclists who can't face the
problems of drugs in cycling, particularly as to Armstrong. Replies from
people like Kunich, pre-1999, that I was crazy to claim there was a
significant drug problem in the sport have been show to have been totally
misplaced. Festina in 1998 served a lot of crow to the rbr denizens.

Quoted message said:

Posting articles in French isn't a cardinal sin. Crowing about
the content of the articles without translating any of the good
bits is a little tedious though.

It's only tedious for provencials not seeking to expand their world view.

Quoted message said:

And shooting the messenger is what we do best around here.
It's important to know your strengths.

No argument there.

Quoted message said:

benjo maso said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sigmund called and left a message. He says you
guys need to talk, give him a call to set up
an appointment.

Frankly, I have never quite understood that animosity against Brian
Lafferty. True, I am not always reading all of his postings. But have I
missed something scandalous or outrageous?

Benjo

Not by the standards of this motley bunch.

Steve

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Jim Flom said:

"mtb Dad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
or links to articles in French.

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

Obviously, Brian hasn't threatened to sue you or involve your employer.

Don't make me google this, Jim. Has he threatened people on this group?

Steve

Quoted message said:

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You apparently forgot that Bush didn't ride with Armstrong after the
Equipe revelations. Why would I write to him?

Our original exchange:

mtb Dad said:

Baseball is the example in the view of every

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

American that very few people care about doping in sport.

Quoted message said:

And that would be why Bush is including doping in his state of the
union address, etc.? I can't see him saying that if it didn't count
for votes. No, people care. Hard core fans may not,yet.

You're in denial. Bush is an example. Was there any fallout
for him for going on a mountain bike ride with an accused
drug user?

Look, I'm not saying it is a good thing that no one cares.
But no one cares.

OK, maybe some people care. But if you are a baseball team
owner and some guy that never goes to see a game is outraged
by Barry Bonds, why should you care?

Since *you* care I think you should fire off a letter to the
president right now, telling him if he really meant what he
said during his State of the Union speech he shouldn't go for
a bike ride with someone that has tested positive for dope.

You do care, don't you?

Bob Schwartz

mtb Dad said:

Quoted message said:

You're in denial. Bush is an example. Was there any fallout
for him for going on a mountain bike ride with an accused
drug user?

Of course not! Look at all the folks he hangs out with who are accused
of much worse things than a little help to win a bike race.

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Don't make me google this, Jim. Has he threatened people on this group?

A few years ago, Brian apparently threatened to sue a guy named Andrew
Albright. Last summer he threatened to forward "some of [my] more
perjoritave posts] to my ecclesiastical authorities. You were around for
that one.

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Flom said:

"mtb Dad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Scott wrote:

>I don't know what's worse, his constant harping on all things even
>remotely doping related, or his insistence in either 1) posting links
>with no corresponding commentary, or 2) posting either actual passages
>or links to articles in French.

I don't know what's worse, the sad ignorance of how serious a problem
doping is for the cycling community, or the attacks on those who bring
it forward(including links to media articles which do a better job of
commenting than many posts here.)

It's a discussion group, not a shoot the messenger group.

Obviously, Brian hasn't threatened to sue you or involve your employer.

Don't make me google this, Jim. Has he threatened people on this group?

I should add that I k-f'ed him shortly thereafter. I have imposed a
restraining order on myself. :-)

Bob Schwartz wrote:

OK, two questions for you...

1) Why do you say there is ignorance of the problem of doping
in sport? Yes, I said 'sport' not 'cycling'. If my kid ever
gets the idea that sport (yes, I said 'sport' not 'cycling'😉
is an acceptable career choice it sure as hell isn't going
to come from me. And if it ever does happen I will ream the
source, let me tell you.

I didn't answer your first question. I said there was a sad ignorance
of doping in cycling, you said in sport. I would argue our problem is
one of the worst, if not the worst for lots of reasons, but here's
three:

The cycling rules allow notification of riders selected for doping
control HOURS before they have to appear at antidoping. This is done in
the Tour by announcements on radio Tour during the stage, and public
postings at the doping station. No marshalling is required. This when
we know that urine tests can be circumvented by inserting a catheter of
clean urine. Every other sport has marshals to keep an eye on those
selected for testing. If we really acknowledged our problem, would we
allow this?

What other sport has 30+ plus dead guys from mysterious heart ailments,
has had doctors explain publicly exactly what they do to increase
hematocrit illegally and undetectably, and still says "we're cleaner
than our critics think".? Even if we don't know how bad it is, which we
probably don't, why would you then say it's "cleaner", except if you're
ignorant or hiding something?

What other sport has fans that blame a whole country for their hero
being implicated?

Maybe it's not ignorance, but I don't know what else to call it.

(Sorry, don't seem to be able to work the quote function on earlier
posts.)

mtb Dad said:

(Sorry, don't seem to be able to work the quote function on earlier
posts.)

Using google groups, don't click "Reply." Click "show options,"
then "reply" from the options that appear just below the header.

Quoted message said:

mtb Dad said:

(Sorry, don't seem to be able to work the quote function on earlier
posts.)

Using google groups, don't click "Reply." Click "show options,"
then "reply" from the options that appear just below the header.

Thanks!

Jim Flom said:

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Don't make me google this, Jim. Has he threatened people on this group?

A few years ago, Brian apparently threatened to sue a guy named Andrew
Albright. Last summer he threatened to forward "some of [my] more
perjoritave posts] to my ecclesiastical authorities. You were around for
that one.

I think I may have seen some of them. Was it he who outed you as clergy?
I don't remember that it seemed a serious threat. Of course, these
things probably seem more serious when they're directed at you.

Steve

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

Using google groups, don't click "Reply." Click "show options,"
then "reply" from the options that appear just below the header.

Thanks lackey. Also see sig:

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