Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method

Andy Froncioni said:

Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
Wheelbuilding"😉 method?

I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.

Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?

If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.

There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
example:-

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Lewis.

*****

Andy Froncioni said:

Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
Wheelbuilding"😉 method?

I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.

That's true for some spokes whatever method you use. I don't remember
it being any worse with Schraner's method than Jobst's method.

Orin.

Quoted message said:

Andy Froncioni said:

Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
Wheelbuilding"😉 method?

I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.

Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?

If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.

There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
example:-

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Lewis.

*****

concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
easily position hub labels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andy Froncioni said:

Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
Wheelbuilding"😉 method?
I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.
Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.
There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
example:-
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

jim beam said:

concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
easily position hub labels.

You don't peel off the labels?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

the brown method online is bend to cross the third spoke only.
you could be inserting a spoke into the lesser of entry spaces

sum entry spaces are more accessible than others tho the spaces may
look the same
if not examined carefully.

Orin Eman said:

Quoted message said:

Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art
of Wheelbuilding"😉 method?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.

Quoted message said:

That's true for some spokes whatever method you use. I don't
remember it being any worse with Schraner's method than Jobst's
method.

The method given in "the Bicycle Wheel" does not require bending
spokes nor is there any interference for inserting sets of spokes. It
uses the same method for any number of spokes and crossings. That is
to say, it is a generic method, valid for any wheel of conventional
spoking.

I don't see why it needs to be difficult other than to keep people
from building wheels. It is not an arcane art if approached properly.

Jobst Brandt

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 8, 9:40 am, Andy Froncioni <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
> Wheelbuilding"😉 method?
> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
> not to scratch the rim.
> Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?

Quoted message said:

If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.
There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
example:-
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

jim beam said:

concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
easily position hub labels.

You don't peel off the labels?
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

how do you peel the label off a hub? they're usually laser etched or
decals under a clear cost.

A Muzi said:

jim beam said:

concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
easily position hub labels.

You don't peel off the labels?
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

how do you peel the label off a hub? they're usually laser etched or
a decals under a clear coat.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art
of Wheelbuilding"😉 method?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.

Quoted message said:

Orin Eman said:

That's true for some spokes whatever method you use. I don't
remember it being any worse with Schraner's method than Jobst's
method.

Quoted message said:

The method given in "the Bicycle Wheel" does not require bending
spokes nor is there any interference for inserting sets of spokes. It
uses the same method for any number of spokes and crossings. That is
to say, it is a generic method, valid for any wheel of conventional
spoking.
I don't see why it needs to be difficult other than to keep people
from building wheels. It is not an arcane art if approached properly.

Heartily agree, having taught a few hundred people to do that without
overmuch discussion, bending or rim scratches.

_Anyone_ can do this well, given some patience and direction. Not
haphazardly, but truly well.

After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
a box. Prior theoretical knowledge, arcana, 'special gift' or holy water
not required.

p.s. Tim says it helps if to have an earring in your nose:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/GREENRIM.JPG
doesn't slow him down anyway.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
a box.

A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
standards are...

Ron Ruff said:

A Muzi said:

After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
a box.

A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
standards are...

takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
wheel day to:
coordinate parts and tools
dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
consult sheldon brown on line
find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
true-3.5 hours.

new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
nipples
or a 360 concrete rim?

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ron Ruff said:

A Muzi said:

After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
a box.

A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
standards are...

takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
wheel day to:
coordinate parts and tools
dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
consult sheldon brown on line
find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
true-3.5 hours.

new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
nipples
or a 360 concrete rim?

You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.

Fritz said:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ron Ruff said:

On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
> standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
> a box.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
standards are...

Quoted message said:

takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
wheel day to:
coordinate parts and tools
dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
consult sheldon brown on line
find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
true-3.5 hours.

Quoted message said:

new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
nipples
or a 360 concrete rim?

You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oyeah-i never did that! izit possible?
what happened this time was shimano (or the cr-18's nipple seat insert
dropped) drilled two holes wrong and the correct length spokes (2)
were tooooo long by 1.5mm. had two shorter left dover from the last
debacle

dont give up--when you first lace your first wheel you can wind up with
amdness--take it apart or do what ever is necessary--i assure you the first
time you ride on your own laced wheel you will never go back to the old ones

hth

peter

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fritz said:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to
> > our
> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel
> > in
> > a box.

Quoted message said:

> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
> standards are...

Quoted message said:

takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
wheel day to:
coordinate parts and tools
dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
consult sheldon brown on line
find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
true-3.5 hours.

Quoted message said:

new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
nipples
or a 360 concrete rim?

You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oyeah-i never did that! izit possible?
what happened this time was shimano (or the cr-18's nipple seat insert
dropped) drilled two holes wrong and the correct length spokes (2)
were tooooo long by 1.5mm. had two shorter left dover from the last
debacle

ilaboo said:

dont give up--when you first lace your first wheel you can wind up with
amdness--take it apart or do what ever is necessary--i assure you the first
time you ride on your own laced wheel you will never go back to the old ones

hth

peter

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fritz said:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to
>> > our
>> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel
>> > in
>> > a box.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
>> standards are...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
>wheel day to:
>coordinate parts and tools
>dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
>dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
>reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
>consult sheldon brown on line
>find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
>gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
>lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
>true-3.5 hours.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
>considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
>nipples
>or a 360 concrete rim?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.- Hide
quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Oyeah-i never did that! izit possible?
what happened this time was shimano (or the cr-18's nipple seat insert
dropped) drilled two holes wrong and the correct length spokes (2)
were tooooo long by 1.5mm. had two shorter left dover from the last
debacle- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

give up? just came in from six years of touring