L6 training in detail

First, you have to go hard to follow an attack (max power). Then, you'll have to repeat the effort with limited recovery to be able to follow repeated attacks in a RR situation.

So start your speedwork with 1:3 work; maybe even 1:4. By the last 3 weeks try 1:2 at full power, set is over when you can't reach power, 20 minutes between sets, 2 sets.

Another good one for repeatability is 6(45s,1m15s)...if you can do 3 sets you're ready to go.

What's also been suggested on this forum is 30/30 x 5, 5 minutes rest.

I worked out the numbers on 2 scenarios:

30/30 x 3:
30s 160% FTP
30s 55% FTP
AP=107%FTP, NP=135%FTP ==> definitely L6

30/30 x 5:
30s 140% FTP
30s 55% FTP
AP=98%, NP=118%, high L5

3-5 sets.

You could also do L3 for your rest 30s, but then that's a fartlek workout. Not many people propose this type of workout. Not sure why.

Speedskater said:

Having started L6 training last week, I have some questions regarding this level.

First I have read about the difference between AC magnitude and depth, which as I understand translates into the power I can develop over a defined time vs. the time I can endure a defined power. How can I adress these different aspects?

Second, there seems to be are coverable vs. a non recoverable part of the AC. Since I compete in road/MTB racing, I assume that only the recoverable part is of real interest for me in contrast to e.g. a pursuiter. How do I target the repeatability of AC?

I would appreciate both theoretical answers and precise descriptions of training sessions.

You might have heard the magnitude vs depth from me because I tend to rant about it. I think that it's one of those things that is shade of gray but it's still an important distinction even though training one might improve the other. If you look over a power file from a race on the road (TT, crit or RR) you'll probably see that there aren't too many times that you actually get a chance to use magnitude that much. I know that I never see any 1min powers are within 100 watts of my max 1min.

Basically- in theory- magnitude is the rate that you can expend awc/produce watts for a given period of time. (even though you might not use the whole capacity)Obviously it is also somehwat NMP dependent. Where depth basically refers to how much total work you can produce from awc without any replenshment of it. Obviously they're theoretical assuptions that don;t take into account every factor.

With depth I ve found a number of times with myself that when doing paced efforts at or a little above vo2max power that at about 2.5min my power tend to drop off very quickly (10-15 watts) then stay at that lower level for the rest of the time.

Depth can be trained basically with any workout that fully exhausts awc during the interval. So when I do these type of intervals Ill pick a target at say 10% above pvo2max and do them to exhaustion. Ie. 2.75min on the first, 2.25 on the second, 2 on the third and finsh when time drops below a certain point. Whereas with magnitude Id do 30s to 1.5 min intervals where I probably won't exhaust AWC but to get a slightly more specific effect. That being said it's rare I do those intervals because of my particular makeup and goals.

I also think that my 30-30s at 115% pvo2max/right a touch below ftp provide some awc benefit because it's run to low levels and kept there. plus my test on a met cart showed a lot of time above 95% vo2max. 2 maybe 3 on a good day intervals of 10min a piece. Course it's all conjecture, I can;t prove it with solid facts.

Greg

I can support that. In races where I have been dropped, it is not being able to ride at 170% FTP for one minute that was key(I can do this).

The Key was to ride at 130% FTP for 1 minute on , and keep repeating it until the attacks settle down and the lead group is formed(I could not do this). Like an NRC crit with a big hill.

gvanwagner said:

With depth I ve found a number of times with myself that when doing paced efforts at or a little above vo2max power that at about 2.5min my power tend to drop off very quickly (10-15 watts) then stay at that lower level for the rest of the time.

Depth can be trained basically with any workout that fully exhausts awc during the interval. So when I do these type of intervals Ill pick a target at say 10% above pvo2max and do them to exhaustion. Ie. 2.75min on the first, 2.25 on the second, 2 on the third and finsh when time drops below a certain point. Whereas with magnitude Id do 30s to 1.5 min intervals where I probably won't exhaust AWC but to get a slightly more specific effect. That being said it's rare I do those intervals because of my particular makeup and goals.

This is what I was asking for, thank you.
What rest times do you use for those intervals 10% over pVO2max?

I´m interested in L6 rather than L4/5 since my power profile shows that there is a strong decline in ability towards short durations. In races I also feel this weakness when it comes to the last 1 km in a breakaway.

Speedskater said:

This is what I was asking for, thank you.
What rest times do you use for those intervals 10% over pVO2max?

I´m interested in L6 rather than L4/5 since my power profile shows that there is a strong decline in ability towards short durations. In races I also feel this weakness when it comes to the last 1 km in a breakaway.

I would think full recovery of around 5-7 min.

Speedskater said:

This is what I was asking for, thank you.
What rest times do you use for those intervals 10% over pVO2max?

I´m interested in L6 rather than L4/5 since my power profile shows that there is a strong decline in ability towards short durations. In races I also feel this weakness when it comes to the last 1 km in a breakaway.

Is there a way to estimate PVO2Max, as a pct of FTP? ie. above 106% or does it vary from individual to individual? Or is a lab test required?

workingguy said:

Is there a way to estimate PVO2Max, as a pct of FTP? ie. above 106% or does it vary from individual to individual? Or is a lab test required?

There are ways to estimate it ie get it "good enough" to be able to use it to train. In cycling it tends to be somwhere around the power you can hold for 4-6min but of course it varies a good bit. You can also use your steady state power that tends to occur in the last 1.5ish minutes of a well paced pursuit type effort. If you have it tested in the lab chances are that they'll give you the power at exhaustion as Pvo2max but that's dependent on the protocol. For me the 3 ways to estimate fall in a very tight range so I consider it to be a "good enough".

If you do test in the lab Im sure they can set up a protocol to find it more exactly by taking out the awc component but usually you'll just get your power at the end of the test. ie. taking your vo2max in liters and extrapolating your economy at that level.

Ive done all three ways and they're within about 10 watts for me.

Greg

workingguy said:

Is there a way to estimate PVO2Max, as a pct of FTP? ie. above 106% or does it vary from individual to individual? Or is a lab test required?

oh and it should be well above 1.06FTP. I tend to swing around 1.33

gvanwagner said:

oh and it should be well above 1.06FTP. I tend to swing around 1.33

I plugged my 1,2,3,4,5,10,20 minute numbers into the monod.xls. It came up with AWC=173 J/kg and CP = 3.7 W/kg with .999 correlation.

FTP (3.8 W/kg) say that I should be in the middle of the Cat 4 field. I've made some FTP gains over the winter after being dropped from every race last year. Is the AWC number typical or does it seem low? So would these 6 or 8 x 2 with plenty of recovery help increase AWC? Also on the agenda for this year is cornering & race smarts. But it's hard to learn tactics if you're not with the main field long enough.

Thanks.

workingguy said:

I plugged my 1,2,3,4,5,10,20 minute numbers into the monod.xls. It came up with AWC=173 J/kg and CP = 3.7 W/kg with .999 correlation.

FTP (3.8 W/kg) say that I should be in the middle of the Cat 4 field. I've made some FTP gains over the winter after being dropped from every race last year. Is the AWC number typical or does it seem low? So would these 6 or 8 x 2 with plenty of recovery help increase AWC? Also on the agenda for this year is cornering & race smarts. But it's hard to learn tactics if you're not with the main field long enough.

Thanks.

It's hard to tell if that spreadsheet was accurate for you because of the number data points. Im assuming you picked them off of your PD curve, But that doesn't account for the fact that you might not have done a specific 3min TT 4min TT, etc. Even if you did do all those TTs them the variation day to day and form differences/fatigue from previous tests on the same day or different.

I think that you should disregard monod and just look at your power profile for now. Also the workout I talked about would involve working at a power above pvo2max until your AWC is exhausted. Which could be above or below 2 min. That being said if you haven't done L6 recently then you should see a training effect whether by short term power or a gold standard from the lab. What does your Power profile look like?

Also I think that you 30-30 workout you talked about earlier is kind of a tweener. The Recovery and total time is too low to really exhaust AWC beyond PCr. So it's not really good fopr depth. If your going for magnitude then why only 30s rest where you won't be able to work at the same level during the real interval. I think that it's one of those workouts that feels pretty hard so people assume it probably does what they want it to.

Greg