KY mtn bikers need your help

"Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of which
were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table job, and no
one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a second to sign our
petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of phone calls) and I think
we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

That's frequently the way this works. They try to keep it as quiet as possible, all the while
laying definite plans for things. If they have pull with the right folks, they count on getting
things through fast once it goes public. The trails at Douthat State Park are under the same
pressure right this minute. A news article hit the local paper this past weekend with big spread
about the future horse center of stables and camping area for horse folks ($700,000 already
earmarked for it), and that they will use trails in the park. These are CCC built trails from
the 30's and have been used for horses long ago, but not for maybe 20 years or more (I think?)
In any case, the article said something to the effect that construction might begin as early as
spring, though there has not yet even been so much as any option for public comment. The article
stated that option will come in the future. How much do you think they care what public comment
they get, considering how much they already have invested? Don't get me wrong. Public comment IS
needed and CAN help, but stemming the tide at this point is going to be very hard for you and
for us. And the horse lobby has HUGE $$$$ at its disposal and will fight hard for it. My plan in
this area is not so much to try to eliminate the whole plan but to help state park personnel and
legislators recognize that there are alternatives to using existing trails in most cases.
Particularly when these trails will have to be hardened significantly to be used for horses
anyway. That usually involves widening to doubletrack width and hauling in gravel etc for
hardening. The expense of doing this is virtually the same as building a brand new trail anyway,
so I will be pushing for them to go ahead and build new trails. This keeps everyone happier and
minimizes user conflicts, and respects the hard work of those who built and who continue to
maintain these trails. (I'll _humbly_ say there is NO ONE who puts more time into maintaining
Douthat's trails than I do, [specifically including their own staff] and I intend to continue
that work. If horses take it over, however, and if they ruin some of the finest singletrack
trails in the east by widening them, I'll likely stop that work, mostly as I'll be riding
elsewhere on National Forest trails instead.) I wish you the best in combating this egregious
situation, and hope you can at least get them to recognize your efforts in building the trails
and keeping them up. Aim to be as pragmatic as possible. Fight for what's winnable, and be ready
to offer alternatives. They often don't even consider these until someone shows them they
exist!! Heck, I'm ready to go lay out new trails for them if they'll only leave the singletrack
alone!!! I've gladly signed your petition.
--
Off to ride the mountains, D H Reply to newsgroup. Spam is out of control.

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of which
were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table job, and no
one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a second to sign our
petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of phone calls) and I think
we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop I attended, a well built
trail will last under multiple use. I've got a little trouble with the "we don't wanna share the
trails that WE built" attitude... What happens when it goes the other way... hikers not wanting to
share the trails that they built with bikers? Around here, many of the trails we ride on were either
built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the riders, or even by hunters with their pack
trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared "their" trails.

Were your trails built legally?

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of
which were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table
job, and no one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a
second to sign our petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of
phone calls) and I think we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop I attended, a well built
trail will last under multiple use. I've got a little trouble with the "we don't wanna share the
trails that WE built" attitude... What happens when it goes the other way... hikers not wanting to
share the trails that they built with bikers? Around here, many of the trails we ride on were
either built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the riders, or even by hunters with their
pack trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared "their" trails.

Were your trails built legally?

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

Well, there is the problem. Parts of this trail are NOT well built, so it will not stand up to
multiple abuse, and no, we do not want to share with horses. The redneck horse-riders here in KY
litter the trail with beercans and do NO trailwork, so why should we share the trails that WE built
with them so that they can tear them up? Yes, as a matter of fact, our trails were built legally and
we will be good neighbors when they are good neighbors to us. If bikers who lived here thought like
you, we would all be riding pavement.

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of
which were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table
job, and no one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a
second to sign our petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of
phone calls) and I think we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop I attended, a well built
trail will last under multiple use. I've got a little trouble with the "we don't wanna share the
trails that WE built" attitude... What happens when it goes the other way... hikers not wanting to
share the trails that they built with bikers? Around here, many of the trails we ride on were
either built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the riders, or even by hunters with their
pack trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared "their" trails.

Were your trails built legally?

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

Well, there is the problem. Parts of this trail are NOT well built, so it will not stand up to
multiple abuse, and no, we do not want to share with horses. The redneck horse-riders here in KY
litter the trail with beercans and do NO trailwork, so why should we share the trails that WE built
with them so that they can tear them up? Yes, as a matter of fact, our trails were built legally and
we will be good neighbors when they are good neighbors to us. If bikers who lived here thought like
you, we would all be riding pavement.

Thanks for the help everybody. Due to all of the phone calls and emails, the park has agrees to
reconsider and is meeting with KYMBA later this week to talk about it. We have some source inside
the parks department that seem to think that this will be reversed very soon.

Eric wrote: ...

Quoted message said:

Well, there is the problem. Parts of this trail are NOT well built... WE built with them ... as a
matter of fact, our trails were built legally ...

So you are saying these are poorly built trails, you built them, with the approval of land managers.

What's wrong with this picture.

I guess it's also interesting that ALL of the horse riders in you parts are fat rednecks who litter.
Did you miss the part about their favorite 4 words being "squeel like a pig"? There must be a few
more negative labels you could use to demonize these folks... get creative.

In my area, the backcountry horsemen do a lot of trail work, and don't seem to have a problem with
mountain bikers on *their* trails. Maybe that's because they believe (correctly) that the trails
belong to everyone. What a notion.

Nick Danger, Third Eye

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of
which were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table
job, and no one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a
second to sign our petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of
phone calls) and I think we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop

I

Quoted message said:

attended, a well built trail will last under multiple use. I've got a

little

Quoted message said:

trouble with the "we don't wanna share the trails that WE built"

attitude...

Quoted message said:

What happens when it goes the other way... hikers not wanting to share the trails that they built
with bikers? Around here, many of the trails we

ride

Quoted message said:

on were either built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the

riders,

Quoted message said:

or even by hunters with their pack trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared
"their" trails.

Were your trails built legally?

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

My experience with the trails in this area is that because of the amount of rain, the horse tracks
turn them pretty much unrideable, like riding between train tracks. This is a first class set of
trails and well cared for by bikers. Drew

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

Well, there is the problem. Parts of this trail are NOT well built, so it will not stand up to
multiple abuse, and no, we do not want to share with horses. The redneck horse-riders here in KY
litter the trail with beercans and do NO trailwork, so why should we share the trails that WE
built with them so that they can tear them up? Yes, as a matter of fact, our trails were built
legally and we will be good neighbors when they are good neighbors to us. If bikers who lived here
thought like you, we would all be riding pavement.

Well, then... I"m very glad I live here, where there is lots of deserted mountain single track up
for all explore, and not there. Here, the concept of shared use goes over pretty darn well. But I"m
not in redneck country, just bubba country, maybe that's the difference.

Penny

DP's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of
which were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table
job, and no one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a
second to sign our petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of
phone calls) and I think we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop I attended, a well built
trail will last under multiple use. I've got a little trouble with the "we don't wanna share the
trails that WE built" attitude... What happens when it goes the other way... hikers not wanting
to share the trails that they built with bikers? Around here, many of the trails we ride on were
either built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the riders, or even by hunters with
their pack trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared "their" trails.

Were your trails built legally?

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

My experience with the trails in this area is that because of the amount of rain, the horse tracks
turn them pretty much unrideable, like riding between train tracks. This is a first class set of
trails and well cared for by bikers. Drew

that's fair enough... things dry out pretty fast 'round here. Do you make sure the bikers stay off
them when wet, too?

Penny

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DP's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:
> All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
> mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of
> which were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table
> job, and no one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a
> second to sign our petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of
> phone calls) and I think we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.
>
> petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
> [email hidden]
>
> Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop I attended, a well built
trail will last under multiple use. I've got a little trouble with the "we don't wanna share
the trails that WE built" attitude... What happens when it goes the other way... hikers not
wanting to share the trails that they built with bikers? Around here, many of the trails we
ride on were either built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the riders, or even by
hunters with their pack trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared "their"
trails.

Were your trails built legally?

Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?

ps

My experience with the trails in this area is that because of the amount of rain, the horse
tracks turn them pretty much unrideable, like riding between train tracks. This is a first class
set of trails and well cared for by bikers. Drew

that's fair enough... things dry out pretty fast 'round here. Do you make sure the bikers stay off
them when wet, too?

Penny

I don't but I live an hour and a half away unfortunately. Isn't it funny that some of the "coolest"
mt. biking pics show riders in complete mud? Irresponsible! But I think for the most part, the
riders at Otter Creek are responsible and conscientious. Drew

"DP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DP's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:

Quoted message said:

"Penny S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Eric's cat walked across a keyboard and came up with this:
>> All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
>> mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of
>> which were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table
>> job, and no one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a
>> second to sign our petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of
>> phone calls) and I think we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.
>>
>> petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
>> [email hidden]
>>
>> Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!
>
>
> So you don't want to share, eh? IIRC from the trail care crew workshop I attended, a well
> built trail will last under multiple use. I've got a little trouble with the "we don't wanna
> share the trails that WE built" attitude... What happens when it goes the other way... hikers
> not wanting to share the trails that they built with bikers? Around here, many of the trails
> we ride on were either built by the CCC for hikers, or by dirt bikes for the riders, or even
> by hunters with their pack trains. It would be a pretty sad situation if no one shared
> "their" trails.
>
> Were your trails built legally?
>
> Why not work on a good share used policy and be a good neighbor instead?
>
> ps
>
>

My experience with the trails in this area is that because of the amount of rain, the horse
tracks turn them pretty much unrideable, like riding between train tracks. This is a first
class set of trails and well cared for by bikers. Drew

that's fair enough... things dry out pretty fast 'round here. Do you

make

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sure the bikers stay off them when wet, too?

Penny

I don't but I live an hour and a half away unfortunately. Isn't it funny that some of the
"coolest" mt. biking pics show riders in complete mud? Irresponsible! But I think for the most
part, the riders at Otter Creek

are

Quoted message said:

responsible and conscientious. Drew

Nothing like a good old dried out 'mud rut' to redirect you into say....a tree?

[email hidden] (Eric) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

All of the trails in one of our best parks, Otter Creek, have now been opened to horses. The
mountain bikers in this community have built almost all of the trails in this park, some of which
were visited by the IMBA Trail Care Crew just 1 month ago. This was an under-the-table job, and no
one was notified or consulted about this change in trail policy. Please take a second to sign our
petition. There has already been a groundswell of support (in the form of phone calls) and I think
we just may be able to stop this before any real damage happens.

petitiononline.competition.htmlOpen ↗ and maybe send an email to
[email hidden]

Thanks a lot! We need all of the help we can get!

#183

/s