Kurt Kinetic questions

tdl123321 said:

1) Will small variances in tension on the tire cause big changes in the watts for a given speed? I'm just aiming for consistency.

2) I left my road machine set up with the leg bolts through the first hole. Is this the optimal postion for most road bikes?

#1 NO!

#2 It doesn't matter.

tdl123321 said:

2) I left my road machine set up with the leg bolts through the first hole. Is this the optimal postion for most road bikes?

Use the one that gets the rear tire lowest without touching the ground. Then you won't have to use a riser block.

tdl123321 said:

2) I left my road machine set up with the leg bolts through the first hole. Is this the optimal postion for most road bikes?

For a 700c wheel, the middle hole will put the rear wheel within ~.5" from the floor, reducing or eliminating the need for a front-wheel riser.

Has anyone encountered troubles with the KK frame seeming out of balance? ie the legs dont sit level on level floor? What have users done to address this - used wedges of some description to set the unit level?

If you are sure the floor is perfectly level then there shouldn't be a problem. I occasionally use a 1/8 inch wedge under one leg depending on where I put the trainer.

According to instructions tyre should be less than 2 inches -5 cm from floor so I changed the legs to frame position 2 ie the 2nd mounting point - the tyre was then close to floor but with sufficient clearence. However the frame was very unstable. Close inspection of the legs shows them to be same length but the end where bolt goes through - one is round the other being slightly oval - the legs could not be interchanged - maybe the previous owner tightened one side too much? Going back to position 1 puts the tyre 3 inches or so above floor but the frame is at least stable in this setup.

With cycleops trainers I sinmply used a phone book to raise the front wheel and that was satisfactory. This KK trainer came with a cycleops riser block which is fairly high. I thought as long as the bike is reasonably level then its not too critical

Do KK trainers take a minute or two for the oil to warm up?? the cycleops fluid 2 has a distinct change in resistence after getting to working temperature - about 2 minutes spinning.

Some of the powertap/KK owners claim it has a very slight drift down in resistance as the "thermodynamically stable" silicon fluid heats up not very noticable though and probably the least drift of all fluid trainers. I don't mess with the leg adjustments because it got the wheel to close to the carpet I just put the front wheel on a block of wood. I spend most of my tweeking trying to get the best fan position.🙂

ChelseaHH said:

According to instructions tyre should be less than 2 inches -5 cm from floor so I changed the legs to frame position 2 ie the 2nd mounting point - the tyre was then close to floor but with sufficient clearence. However the frame was very unstable. Close inspection of the legs shows them to be same length but the end where bolt goes through - one is round the other being slightly oval - the legs could not be interchanged - maybe the previous owner tightened one side too much? Going back to position 1 puts the tyre 3 inches or so above floor but the frame is at least stable in this setup.

With cycleops trainers I sinmply used a phone book to raise the front wheel and that was satisfactory. This KK trainer came with a cycleops riser block which is fairly high. I thought as long as the bike is reasonably level then its not too critical

Do KK trainers take a minute or two for the oil to warm up?? the cycleops fluid 2 has a distinct change in resistence after getting to working temperature - about 2 minutes spinning.

ChelseaHH said:

Do KK trainers take a minute or two for the oil to warm up?? the cycleops fluid 2 has a distinct change in resistence after getting to working temperature - about 2 minutes spinning.

Oi ChelseaHH what do you reckon is the better of the two fluid trainers KK or COP2? I need to know these things. 🙂 And where on earth do you get hold of a KK at a reasonable price in Oz?

wiredued said:

Some of the powertap/KK owners claim it has a very slight drift down in resistance as the "thermodynamically stable" silicon fluid heats up not very noticable though and probably the least drift of all fluid trainers. I don't mess with the leg adjustments because it got the wheel to close to the carpet I just put the front wheel on a block of wood. I spend most of my tweeking trying to get the best fan position.🙂

My shed floor ins't as level as I thought! After trying a few different locations it was clear the cement floor has some undulations but have now a good position.

I will fiddle with the tension setting next - at this stage used 2 & 1/4 turns once tyre contacts the roller.

Given it is mid winter in South Australia and my last two Sat morning sessions at 0700 it has been 1.5 degrees C in my shed - Fan position is NOT a priority - At least no one can see me with gardening gloves on 😄

The PT guys say a coast down from 20mph taking 13.4 seconds will get the speed to watts calculations right on the money. However when it is cold in my basement my tire is less sticky and will squeek if I shoot for 13.4 seconds coast down. I just adjust the knob and move the wheel back and forth until I don't hear any squeeking the coast down is ussually between 11 and 12 seconds so I can say 252 watts FTP for my 19.8mph 1 hour TT is a conservative number.

ChelseaHH said:

My shed floor ins't as level as I thought! After trying a few different locations it was clear the cement floor has some undulations but have now a good position.

I will fiddle with the tension setting next - at this stage used 2 & 1/4 turns once tyre contacts the roller.

Given it is mid winter in South Australia and my last two Sat morning sessions at 0700 it has been 1.5 degrees C in my shed - Fan position is NOT a priority - At least no one can see me with gardening gloves on 😄

There have been plenty of which trainer should I get questions so here are my observations between KK Road machine and Cycleops Fluid 2 I have used over the last 8 months
I have now done 3 x 1 hr + sessions on the KK - 1 interval session & 2 spin sessions.

The KK is much heavier than Cycleops Fluid, mounting setup about the same. There doesnt seem to be any warm up time for the KK - the CF takes about 2 minutes to get up to operating temp. KK is louder in operation and there is more tyre slip - not much of a problem.

There is a definite difference in the feel of the 2 units - CF feels to have higher resistance, harder to get speed & cadence up for every gear. KK does feel a little more road like but is taking somewhat longer before I get HR into 70- 80% of max.
The KK feels a bit like a studio bike with the momentum you build up so is easier to spin - the CF was just a slog at all times. I can get out of the saddle but need to be in 52 -15, 14 or so otherwise I spin the gear out.

My legs feel like after a hard road session on the KK and was still a little sore on Saturday after Thurs night session. On the CF is was sitting around the 26/27kmph mark according to the Cateye computer, and the KK i'm sitting at 29-31 km using same gears.

My bum still hurts after an hour using either trainer🙂

I've yet to do the coast down calibration method to fiddle with tension settings but with the CF there was not much coast down at all.

These are my initial findings any way - not very scientific but just how it feels to me

The TDF starts next week and I still haven't watched all the Giro stages I have so I'll certainly giving the KK a solid workout in coming weeks

tdl123321 said:

1) Will small variances in tension on the tire cause big changes in the watts for a given speed? I'm just aiming for consistency.

2) I left my road machine set up with the leg bolts through the first hole. Is this the optimal postion for most road bikes?

I've done a LOT of testing of various power meters on a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. To answer your questions:

1. Variations in tension, tire size, inflation pressure and type will all make a difference in power required at any given speed. A roll down test as described elsewhere in this thread and on other on-line forums will minimize the power differences. Another typical source of error is speedometer calibration. If the speed isn't right, the power won't be right either. Finally, power does vary with the temperature of the resistance fluid. Make all readings with the KK fully warmed up. If you want consistency, just use the same rear wheel pumped to the same pressure and turned to the same tension every time.

2. Use the bolt holes that allow you to get the bike level without a riser block unless you ride on carpet or rubberized flooring, in which case a riser is a good idea (it keeps the rear wheel from dragging on the carpet or flooring).