Kryptonite tubular lock exchange

Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:14:17 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,

Dan Daniel said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

Waiting a month isn't an option for people who rely on their bikes
being where they left them. We had to get another type of lock
yesterday. Good luck finding one in a bike shop.

If the replacement from Kryptonite is free and not too much hassle
lots of people will take the offer. Others who are satisfied with
their alternate lock won't bother if it's a hassle.

I figure that a large number of Kryptonite's recent customers won't be
needing their new locks until spring anyhow.

I think Kryptonite is doing a credible job staunching the hemorage.

They'd better hope they don't anger too many of their customers who
didn't qualify for a replacement. Or they may find themselves in a
class action if it can be proved they knew of the hack.

It's impossible for me to believe they haven't known for a long time.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

It's impossible for me to believe they haven't known for a long
time.

I hear you.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:27:02 -0400, <[email hidden]>, "Eric

S. Sande said:

Quoted message said:

It's impossible for me to believe they haven't known for a long
time.

I hear you.

I also found it suspicious that the exposé happened to coincide with
the introduction of their new line of consumer products employing the
improved technology they've been using in their professional grade
products for years.

But, their replacement offer reads to be comprehensive.
OTOH, my Krypto clone is a write off AFAIK.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

OTOH, my Krypto clone is a write off AFAIK

Don't worry about it.

The [censored] was junk anyway, that's why we all ways took other
measures to protect our bicycles. Relying on some compromised U-Lock
all ways took second place to locking and parking indoors.

As far as I'm concerned this is a tempest in a teapot.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:55:45 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Eric S. Sande said:

Quoted message said:

OTOH, my Krypto clone is a write off AFAIK

Don't worry about it.

The [censored] was junk anyway, that's why we all ways took other
measures to protect our bicycles. Relying on some compromised U-Lock
all ways took second place to locking and parking indoors.

I relied on it every day for my regular trips. I felt secure parking
in known high theft areas. It's a rugged clone of their NYC lock.
At 1.6 kilos it wasn't exactly [censored] until this hack hit the streets.

Quoted message said:

As far as I'm concerned this is a tempest in a teapot.

All I know is I'm going to get another U-Lock for its convenience.
--
zk

In article said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

I agree that it is good that they have decided to replace locks which
may be more vulnerable than they should be.

Unfortunately, because their offer is one of "send it in to us and
we will send you back a replacement first come first served whenever
we have stock available" it is pretty useless for anyone who, say,
uses their lock.

Even if you are comfortable using your current lock until you can send it
in, having to wait an arbitrary and unspecified time to get it back isn't
very practical unless you buy another lock.

Marc Slemko wrote:
|| In article <[email hidden]>, Dan Daniel
|| wrote:
||| Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
||| is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
||| that the new products were just coming out now anyway....
||
|| I agree that it is good that they have decided to replace locks which
|| may be more vulnerable than they should be.
||
|| Unfortunately, because their offer is one of "send it in to us and
|| we will send you back a replacement first come first served whenever
|| we have stock available" it is pretty useless for anyone who, say,
|| uses their lock.
||
|| Even if you are comfortable using your current lock until you can
|| send it in, having to wait an arbitrary and unspecified time to get
|| it back isn't very practical unless you buy another lock.

Does anyone know if their offer applies to Krypto locks sold by companies
like Trek?

I have a Trek version (Kryptonite is written all over it and I've had it for
a year) of the U-lock that I would like replaced (in case I find reason to
use it in the future). I don't use the lock (it was unopened until I read
this offer) so I don't mind waiting. I sent in the info already, so i guess
I'll find out soon if their offer extends to people in my situation.

Marc Slemko said:

In article said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

I agree that it is good that they have decided to replace locks which
may be more vulnerable than they should be.

Unfortunately, because their offer is one of "send it in to us and
we will send you back a replacement first come first served whenever
we have stock available" it is pretty useless for anyone who, say,
uses their lock.

Even if you are comfortable using your current lock until you can send it
in, having to wait an arbitrary and unspecified time to get it back isn't
very practical unless you buy another lock.

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly. This
makes the most sense. Kryptonite is not set up for distributing
individual locks. They would probably hire an outside firm to handle
the swaps. If they can get the dealers to play along, they save the
postage, use existing channels, and the dealers get some satisfied
customers. Seems like the way to go to me. Well, see what happens in
the next few days. They don't even have the locks to exchange yet...

Dan Daniel said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

What I would like to know is who pays for postage to send the locks to
Kryptonite? Could make it not worh it.

Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:41:08 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, Thad O

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

What I would like to know is who pays for postage to send the locks to
Kryptonite? Could make it not worh it.

Had you read the page linked in his original message it would have
informed you:
" Kryptonite will pay the postage for all exchanges."

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/templateform@public?tn=urgent_update
--
zk

Zoot Katz wrote:
|| Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:41:08 GMT,
|| <[email hidden]>, Thad O
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
|||| Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a
|||| month
|||| is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better
|||| considering
|||| that the new products were just coming out now anyway....
||||
||| What I would like to know is who pays for postage to send the locks
||| to
||| Kryptonite? Could make it not worh it.
||
|| Had you read the page linked in his original message it would have
|| informed you:
|| " Kryptonite will pay the postage for all exchanges."
||
||
http://www.kryptonitelock.com/inetisscripts/abtinetis.exe/templateform@public?tn=urgent_update
|| --
|| zk

This is the letter I got back from them after I wrote them. Note that it
instructs you to return your lock to them postage paid (note: they didn't
say by what means to ship it, so cheap slow mail is best).

I will be out of the office starting 09/22/2004 and will not return until
10/01/2004.

Thank you for contacting Kryptonite.

If you have a Kryptonite lock that has a tubular cylinder (a round key
cylinder) you are eligible for a Kryptonite non-tubular cylinder lock
exchange. The steps you take to participate in the exchange are:
1. Provide the information listed below to Kryptonite.
2. Return your current tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock to us (postage
paid).
3. Kryptonite will send you your new non-tubular cylinder lock.

Please provide the following information:
Name:
Street Address:
City:
Province:
State/County:
Country:
Zip Code/Postal Code:
Daytime Phone Number:
Email Address:

How many locks with tubular cylinders will you be exchanging?
What lock model(s) do you own (Evolution 2000, KryptoLok, Gorgon)?
What is/are your tubular key number(s), which are stamped on your keys?

Please send this information:
By e-mail to: [email hidden]
By fax to: 781-821-0780
By mail to: Kryptonite Lock Exchange, 437 Turnpike Street, Canton, MA 02021

Once we receive the above information, we will contact you with specific
details as to how to return your Kryptonite lock (postage paid). Upon
receipt of your tubular cylinder Kryptonite lock, we will send to you a
replacement Kryptonite non-tubular cylinder lock free of charge.
Replacement locks will be sent beginning mid-October on a first come, first
served basis, based on product availability.

If you have any questions, please contact Kryptonite Customer Service at
[email hidden] or by calling 1-800-729-5625 (United States and Canada)
or 001-781-828-6655 (Outside of the United States).

NOTE: Please do not reply back to this email message. Please email the
information above to [email hidden].

Quoted message said:

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly.

They are specifically not allowing dealers to handle exchanges. This is a
source of no small amount of annoyance to me; as the final seller of the
product to the consumer, I want to make it as easy as possible for our
customers to be taken care of. After all, if it was *my* shop that sold the
product (obviously not knowing about the issue; we removed all stock from
our shelves when we found out), then the customer's experience in purchasing
the product was with me, not Kryptonite. And I should be able to handle it
for them.

The cynical side of me would suggest that a mail-in program costs the
company a lot less, because many people won't bother with it (just like
sending in product rebate forms).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marc Slemko said:

In article said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

I agree that it is good that they have decided to replace locks which
may be more vulnerable than they should be.

Unfortunately, because their offer is one of "send it in to us and
we will send you back a replacement first come first served whenever
we have stock available" it is pretty useless for anyone who, say,
uses their lock.

Even if you are comfortable using your current lock until you can send it
in, having to wait an arbitrary and unspecified time to get it back isn't
very practical unless you buy another lock.

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly. This
makes the most sense. Kryptonite is not set up for distributing
individual locks. They would probably hire an outside firm to handle
the swaps. If they can get the dealers to play along, they save the
postage, use existing channels, and the dealers get some satisfied
customers. Seems like the way to go to me. Well, see what happens in
the next few days. They don't even have the locks to exchange yet...

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly.

They are specifically not allowing dealers to handle exchanges. This is a
source of no small amount of annoyance to me; as the final seller of the
product to the consumer, I want to make it as easy as possible for our
customers to be taken care of. After all, if it was *my* shop that sold the
product (obviously not knowing about the issue; we removed all stock from
our shelves when we found out), then the customer's experience in purchasing
the product was with me, not Kryptonite. And I should be able to handle it
for them.

Have you had any customers disgruntled with you because you couldn't
handle it? I would imagine there are folks like that out there, who
just refuse to understand that the company is tying your hands.

-km

--
posting from Linux box, haven't copied over the sig-file yet, too lazy
to recreate it

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly.

They are specifically not allowing dealers to handle exchanges.

Thanks for the info. Based on their release this Wednesday, there
seemed to be an implication that letting the dealers handle it was a
possibility. You are probably right- to reduce the demand. One more
reason to find the OnGuard model I've been looking for. The
replacement Kryptos will go into the basement for locking up the bikes
in storage.

This is a

Quoted message said:

source of no small amount of annoyance to me; as the final seller of the
product to the consumer, I want to make it as easy as possible for our
customers to be taken care of. After all, if it was *my* shop that sold the
product (obviously not knowing about the issue; we removed all stock from
our shelves when we found out), then the customer's experience in purchasing
the product was with me, not Kryptonite. And I should be able to handle it
for them.

The cynical side of me would suggest that a mail-in program costs the
company a lot less, because many people won't bother with it (just like
sending in product rebate forms).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marc Slemko said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dan Daniel wrote:
> Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
> is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
> that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

I agree that it is good that they have decided to replace locks which
may be more vulnerable than they should be.

Unfortunately, because their offer is one of "send it in to us and
we will send you back a replacement first come first served whenever
we have stock available" it is pretty useless for anyone who, say,
uses their lock.

Even if you are comfortable using your current lock until you can send it
in, having to wait an arbitrary and unspecified time to get it back isn't
very practical unless you buy another lock.

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly. This
makes the most sense. Kryptonite is not set up for distributing
individual locks. They would probably hire an outside firm to handle
the swaps. If they can get the dealers to play along, they save the
postage, use existing channels, and the dealers get some satisfied
customers. Seems like the way to go to me. Well, see what happens in
the next few days. They don't even have the locks to exchange yet...

Quoted message said:

Have you had any customers disgruntled with you because you couldn't
handle it? I would imagine there are folks like that out there, who just
refuse to understand that the company is tying your hands.

We'll find a way to get our customers taken care of. It's going to be
especially tough for dealers in college towns, since the students are all
now coming back to school and need locks *now* but the replacements won't be
available for some time.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"the black rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly.

They are specifically not allowing dealers to handle exchanges. This is
a source of no small amount of annoyance to me; as the final seller of
the product to the consumer, I want to make it as easy as possible for
our customers to be taken care of. After all, if it was *my* shop that
sold the product (obviously not knowing about the issue; we removed all
stock from our shelves when we found out), then the customer's experience
in purchasing the product was with me, not Kryptonite. And I should be
able to handle it for them.

Have you had any customers disgruntled with you because you couldn't
handle it? I would imagine there are folks like that out there, who just
refuse to understand that the company is tying your hands.

-km

--
posting from Linux box, haven't copied over the sig-file yet, too lazy to
recreate it

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Kryptonite tubular lock exchange
From: Marc Slemko [email hidden]
Date: 9/23/2004 11:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article said:

Well, I for one am impressed with their response.... Waiting a month
is a drag, but I don't know if they could do much better considering
that the new products were just coming out now anyway....

I agree that it is good that they have decided to replace locks which
may be more vulnerable than they should be.

Unfortunately, because their offer is one of "send it in to us and
we will send you back a replacement first come first served whenever
we have stock available" it is pretty useless for anyone who, say,
uses their lock.

Even if you are comfortable using your current lock until you can send it
in, having to wait an arbitrary and unspecified time to get it back isn't
very practical unless you buy another lock.

jeez, what are you 10 years old? talk about zero budget!

Roger Zoul said:

This is the letter I got back from them after I wrote them. Note that it
instructs you to return your lock to them postage paid (note: they didn't
say by what means to ship it, so cheap slow mail is best).

But they can claim that they never got it. A better way is to send
with return receipt requested. That way is more expensive.

Thad O wrote:
|| On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:03:15 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| This is the letter I got back from them after I wrote them. Note
||| that it instructs you to return your lock to them postage paid
||| (note: they didn't say by what means to ship it, so cheap slow mail
||| is best).
|| But they can claim that they never got it. A better way is to send
|| with return receipt requested. That way is more expensive.

If they want to claim that, then so be it. I've never used that lock
anyway. However, that won't happen.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

There could be an exchange program happening at dealers directly.

They are specifically not allowing dealers to handle exchanges. This is a
source of no small amount of annoyance to me; as the final seller of the
product to the consumer, I want to make it as easy as possible for our
customers to be taken care of. After all, if it was *my* shop that sold the
product (obviously not knowing about the issue; we removed all stock from
our shelves when we found out), then the customer's experience in purchasing
the product was with me, not Kryptonite. And I should be able to handle it
for them.

The cynical side of me would suggest that a mail-in program costs the
company a lot less, because many people won't bother with it (just like
sending in product rebate forms).

I suspect that that is not going to be the case.
Someone is already filing a class action suit against the company.
Certainly some State Attourney Generals will take up the cause too.

A sham return policy will just hurt them in court.

Wait a short while and see what happens. I suspect that Kryptonite
will be changing their policy several times, in fact I think it would
be a real possibility that those sending their locks in now might get
them back and tell them to take it to their dealer.

PS Where is your shop?