Kryptonite might make good?

Dan Daniel said:

For those concerned about the Kryptonite tubular lock vulnerability,
here's an interesting article from a British web site-

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640

"...Specifically, Kryptonite will provide the owners of Evolution and
KryptoLok series products the ability to upgrade their crossbars to
the new disc-style cylinder, where possible. This cylinder provides
greatly enhanced security and performance.

Kryptonite is finalizing the details of this upgrade process and will
publicly communicate these details as soon as possible."

I suspect that this will not be a free upgrade, but I'd still pop for
it if the price advantage is adequate. They'll probably benefit in
the long run from the PR that such a move will provide. Of course,
the alternative would be to allow *bad* PR to dominate, which could be
very bad for them indeed.

Meanwhile, I note the Supergo has pulled all of their locks from their
online shopping cart.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Dan Daniel said:

For those concerned about the Kryptonite tubular lock vulnerability,
here's an interesting article from a British web site-

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640

"...Specifically, Kryptonite will provide the owners of Evolution and
KryptoLok series products the ability to upgrade their crossbars to
the new disc-style cylinder, where possible. This cylinder provides
greatly enhanced security and performance.

Kryptonite is finalizing the details of this upgrade process and will
publicly communicate these details as soon as possible."

"Kryptonite might make good?"

Let's hope so.

However, the statement makes the claim that the New York series
is impervious to the biro attack.

My New York chain (GB£60!) uses the small yellow shackle padlock
which has the by now notorious pen-friendly tubular lock. Makes a nice
paperweight now that it's merely a nuisance to thieves, rather than a
any serious impediment.

The best scenario for me would be a free/low cost upgrade to the
shackle used on the New York Fahgettaboudit chain , but I don't really
see that happening...

Vic.

I doubt it. Here's the e-mail I got back from them:

"We understand there are concerns regarding tubular cylinders used in some
Kryptonite locks. The tubular cylinder, a standard industry-wide design, has
been successfully used for more than 30 years in our products and other
security applications without significant issues.

The current Kryptonite locks based on a tubular cylinder design continue to
present an effective deterrent to theft. As part of our continuing
commitment to produce performance and improved security, Kryptonite has been
developing a disc-style cylinder for some years. In 2000, Kryptonite
introduced the disc-style cylinder in its premier line of products, the New
York series. In 2002, Kryptonite began development of a new disc cylinder
system for both its Evolution and KryptoLok product lines, which currently
use the tubular cylinder design. These products are scheduled to be
introduced in the next few weeks.

We are accelerating the delivery of the new disc cylinder locks and we will
communicate directly with our distributors, dealers and consumers within the
coming days. The world just got tougher and so did our locks.

Sandy Salvatore
Customer Service Rep.
Kryptonite
An Ingersoll-Rand Business
437 Turnpike Street
Canton, MA 02021
Phone: 800-729-5625 ext. 282
Fax: 781-821-4777
[email hidden]"

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For those concerned about the Kryptonite tubular lock vulnerability,
here's an interesting article from a British web site-

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640

"...Specifically, Kryptonite will provide the owners of Evolution and
KryptoLok series products the ability to upgrade their crossbars to
the new disc-style cylinder, where possible. This cylinder provides
greatly enhanced security and performance.

Kryptonite is finalizing the details of this upgrade process and will
publicly communicate these details as soon as possible."

This is reminiscent of the "Tylenol" incident of the 80's, but with certain
major differences:

1 - No one's life is at stake here, but this is still vitally important to
many nonetheless.

2 - Except for the incident in question, Tylenol was safe, but J&J offered
to replace every bottle of Tylenol in existence, opened or unopened,
nonetheless. In Kryptonite's case however, nearly every lock in existence
is actually susceptible...very ugly.

Hopefully one of Kryptonite's execs did this case in B-school. They have no
choice but to offer a cost effective crossbar upgrade, or potentially lose
their entire customer base from this point onwards. If they don't offer a
crossbar upgrade, and I were a competitor, _I'd_ offer a compatible crossbar
upgrade, barring any patent infringment involved in the mating of the
crossbar.

Kyle

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For those concerned about the Kryptonite tubular lock vulnerability,
here's an interesting article from a British web site-

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640

"...Specifically, Kryptonite will provide the owners of Evolution and
KryptoLok series products the ability to upgrade their crossbars to
the new disc-style cylinder, where possible. This cylinder provides
greatly enhanced security and performance.

Kryptonite is finalizing the details of this upgrade process and will
publicly communicate these details as soon as possible."

This is reminiscent of the "Tylenol" incident of the 80's, but with certain
major differences:

1 - No one's life is at stake here, but this is still vitally important to
many nonetheless.

2 - Except for the incident in question, Tylenol was safe, but J&J offered
to replace every bottle of Tylenol in existence, opened or unopened,
nonetheless. In Kryptonite's case however, nearly every lock in existence
is actually susceptible...very ugly.

Hopefully one of Kryptonite's execs did this case in B-school. They have no
choice but to offer a cost effective crossbar upgrade, or potentially lose
their entire customer base from this point onwards. If they don't offer a
crossbar upgrade, and I were a competitor, _I'd_ offer a compatible crossbar
upgrade, barring any patent infringment involved in the mating of the
crossbar.

Kyle

The statement that you received is the 'blander' statement referred to
in the article-

'In a >>>new<<< statement released this evening, following soon after
the release of a blander, more non-committal statement yesterday,
Kryptonite appears to want to tackle the 'Bice problem' head on.'
(emphasis added)

I just want a lock that I don't have to worry about. For now I'll let
my Krypto be a paperweight and use the Onguard I bought yesterday.

Brendon M. Troy said:

I doubt it. Here's the e-mail I got back from them:

"We understand there are concerns regarding tubular cylinders used in some
Kryptonite locks. The tubular cylinder, a standard industry-wide design, has
been successfully used for more than 30 years in our products and other
security applications without significant issues.

The current Kryptonite locks based on a tubular cylinder design continue to
present an effective deterrent to theft. As part of our continuing
commitment to produce performance and improved security, Kryptonite has been
developing a disc-style cylinder for some years. In 2000, Kryptonite
introduced the disc-style cylinder in its premier line of products, the New
York series. In 2002, Kryptonite began development of a new disc cylinder
system for both its Evolution and KryptoLok product lines, which currently
use the tubular cylinder design. These products are scheduled to be
introduced in the next few weeks.

We are accelerating the delivery of the new disc cylinder locks and we will
communicate directly with our distributors, dealers and consumers within the
coming days. The world just got tougher and so did our locks.

Sandy Salvatore
Customer Service Rep.
Kryptonite
An Ingersoll-Rand Business
437 Turnpike Street
Canton, MA 02021
Phone: 800-729-5625 ext. 282
Fax: 781-821-4777
[email hidden]"

Dan Daniel said:

For those concerned about the Kryptonite tubular lock vulnerability,
here's an interesting article from a British web site-

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640

"...Specifically, Kryptonite will provide the owners of Evolution and
KryptoLok series products the ability to upgrade their crossbars to
the new disc-style cylinder, where possible. This cylinder provides
greatly enhanced security and performance.

Kryptonite is finalizing the details of this upgrade process and will
publicly communicate these details as soon as possible."

Someone should take a close look at the Kryptonite warranty language.
It probably negates implied warranties of merchantability (the product
is what it claims to be) and fitness (the product does what it is
supposed to do). However, under the Uniform Commercial Code such
limitations are invalid if they are unconscionable. It would seem to me
that the tubular locks fall so far short of merchantability and fitness,
that any limitation of warranty should be unconscionable.

It would also seem that Kryptonite has made some express warranties in
its description of its product. I would expect to see some consumer's
lawyer bring a class action lawsuit. Unfortunately, such lawsuits seem
to end with big fees for the lawyers and very little for the victims.

--
Cheers! OliverS
When replying personally, remove "_nospam_"

"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of
the human race." HG Wells

OliverS said:

Unfortunately, such lawsuits seem
to end with big fees for the lawyers and very little for the victims.

I own four. They have done what they claim to do. Would I still use it
to lock a commuter bike up all day, based on the latest info? No. But
I got my $ 100 - 140 total investment back in spades. So have most
other owners of the locks.

Victims? What garbage. What pathetic garbage.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell said:

OliverS said:

Unfortunately, such lawsuits seem
to end with big fees for the lawyers and very little for the victims.

I own four. They have done what they claim to do. Would I still use it
to lock a commuter bike up all day, based on the latest info? No. But
I got my $ 100 - 140 total investment back in spades. So have most
other owners of the locks.

Victims? What garbage. What pathetic garbage.

Apparently this exploit has been know, but not widely publicized, for at
least ten years. It thus seems probable (to me), that someone at
Kryptonite was made aware of the possibility long before now. If this is
the case, and Kryptonite has been knowingly relying on "security through
obscurity", then I think "victims" is a fair term.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Kyle.B.H said:

Hopefully one of Kryptonite's execs did this case in B-school. They have no

Better case: Intel's FDIV bug.

Intel set up a $400 million fund to cover returns of Pentium
chips with this very-well-publicized bug (most chips have
literally hundreds of bugs that are known to the public
but never make CNN). They wrote that $400M off, which
was ignored by the market as the publicity had already
discounted the stock. After three years, they had spent
about $100 million of it, and the returns had slowed to
a trickle. They booked the spare $300M as revenue, and
the stock popped.

So yeah, if Krypto's execs are serious B-school types,
they'll be looking at this as a way to get even on the
media hype.

Quoted message said:

choice but to offer a cost effective crossbar upgrade, or potentially lose
their entire customer base from this point onwards. If they don't offer a
crossbar upgrade, and I were a competitor, _I'd_ offer a compatible crossbar
upgrade, barring any patent infringment involved in the mating of the
crossbar.

Several other lock manufacturers have offered nearly
identical u-shaped lock designs. And my existing Krypto
is about 20 years old by now, so I doubt there's much about
the basic elements that's still covered by a patent.

--Blair
"How about you buy me a sandwich
and I'll just watch your bike
until you're done in the Gap?"

Curtis L. Russell said:

OliverS said:

Unfortunately, such lawsuits seem
to end with big fees for the lawyers and very little for the victims.

I own four. They have done what they claim to do.

Did anyone spray one with a can of "canned air" turned upside-down,
then whack it with a 5-lb sledgie?

Kryptonite just introduced a new model after that started being
the MCKDM (most-common kryptonite defeating mode).

--Blair
"I don't lock my bike. I ride it
until it's back home."

Werehatrack said:

Dan Daniel said:

For those concerned about the Kryptonite tubular lock vulnerability,
here's an interesting article from a British web site-

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4640

"...Specifically, Kryptonite will provide the owners of Evolution and
KryptoLok series products the ability to upgrade their crossbars to
the new disc-style cylinder, where possible. This cylinder provides
greatly enhanced security and performance.

Kryptonite is finalizing the details of this upgrade process and will
publicly communicate these details as soon as possible."

I suspect that this will not be a free upgrade,

*snort* It oughtta be.

"Our bike locks can be picked in under 30 seconds with a ball point pen,
but for a price we'll make them secure!"

Uh-huh. Credibility = zero.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
:: Curtis L. Russell wrote:
::
::: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:22:33 GMT, OliverS
::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::
:::: Unfortunately, such lawsuits seem
:::: to end with big fees for the lawyers and very little for the
:::: victims.
:::
::: I own four. They have done what they claim to do. Would I still use
::: it to lock a commuter bike up all day, based on the latest info?
::: No. But I got my $ 100 - 140 total investment back in spades. So
::: have most other owners of the locks.
:::
::: Victims? What garbage. What pathetic garbage.
::
:: Apparently this exploit has been know, but not widely publicized,
:: for at least ten years. It thus seems probable (to me), that
:: someone at Kryptonite was made aware of the possibility long before
:: now. If this is the case, and Kryptonite has been knowingly relying
:: on "security through obscurity", then I think "victims" is a fair
:: term.

As long as this exploit is relatively unknown, "victim" is not a fair term
since the presense of the big ass kryptonite still prevents bikes from being
stolen. My guess is that even now this info won't spread far beyond the
internet.

::
:: --
:: Benjamin Lewis
::
:: I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
:: oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed
:: interstate commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kyle.B.H said:

Hopefully one of Kryptonite's execs did this case in B-school. They have

no

Quoted message said:

Better case: Intel's FDIV bug.

Intel set up a $400 million fund to cover returns of Pentium
chips with this very-well-publicized bug (most chips have
literally hundreds of bugs that are known to the public
but never make CNN). They wrote that $400M off, which
was ignored by the market as the publicity had already
discounted the stock. After three years, they had spent
about $100 million of it, and the returns had slowed to
a trickle. They booked the spare $300M as revenue, and
the stock popped.

So yeah, if Krypto's execs are serious B-school types,
they'll be looking at this as a way to get even on the
media hype.

The problem is, the life of a krypto lock is much longer than that of a
Pentium, and the problem with them actually can affect someone, unlike the
Pentium glitch. I think Krypto will offer a trade-in, but it won't be free.

Roger Zoul said:

As long as this exploit is relatively unknown, "victim" is not a fair
term since the presense of the big ass kryptonite still prevents bikes
from being stolen.

I disagree. I don't believe it is a reasonable or fair thing to force
your customers, unknowingly, to risk, while painting big pictures of the
invulnerability of your locks.

Quoted message said:

My guess is that even now this info won't spread far beyond the internet.

It already has. Just think of the percentage of cyclists who have internet
access these days. It's been on the news, and Mountain Equipment Co-op and
other bike stores have removed these locks from shelves. I assume that
this is happening at stores in the States as well. Someone claimed in
another post (sorry, don't remember which thread, or even which cycling
mailing list and newsgroup I read this in. It's hard to keep straight,
since this news is being discussed in every single one of about 6 I'm
subscribed to (the first reference I saw was from bikeforums, which I do
not personally read (apologies for the nested parentheses))) that
distributors have got "stop selling these locks" memos from Kryptonite.

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Roger Zoul said:

My guess is that even now this info won't spread far beyond the
internet.

Humm, there was an article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune today about it.

Reid

Kyle.B.H said:

In Kryptonite's case however, nearly every lock in existence
is actually susceptible...very ugly.

Every lock in existence from every manufacturer can be picked. The
issue is which can be picked very easily. In this case, it is only
newer Kryptonite locks and some similar locks.

It is not every Kryptonite lock in existence that is suseptible to the
pen top picking.

JT

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Roger Zoul said:

My guess is that even now this info
won't spread far beyond the
internet.

Yeah, it's not like it's being published in any newspapers, right....

JT

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Benjamin Lewis <[email hidden]> in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Victims? What garbage. What pathetic garbage.

Apparently this exploit has been know, but not widely publicized, for
at least ten years. It thus seems probable (to me), that someone at
Kryptonite was made aware of the possibility long before now. If this
is the case, and Kryptonite has been knowingly relying on "security
through obscurity", then I think "victims" is a fair term.

espec those who bought one, say, last week (not i)

--
"AWOL/Cheney, 1.? more years, woo hoo!."