Kryptonite Krap

Ian Smith said:

I won't be buying another Kryptonite, but any other suggestions?

Hope you're going to send it back to the manufacturer with a complaint
on similar lines to what you posted. You might even get some money
back ;o)

peter

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

Not pleased.

Have you tried applying oil? I know that your Abus has suffered the same
abuse and still works, but it strikes me that expecting a fairly intricate
mechanism to survive the British Outdoors without any oil is a little
harsh. The real test should be resistance to thieves surely. If it fairs
well in that respect then it's work two drops of 3-in-one every 4 months.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Have you tried applying oil?

That was going to be my suggestion as well. My D lock (can't remember
the make) starts to get a bit fiddly to operate every now and then. A
quick squirt of GT85 has it working fine.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and restart
body.

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

Not pleased.

The Abus it sits alongside has had 3.5 years of identical exposure an
still works perfectly - smooth and faultless lock & unlock.

So, it's new lock time. I want a longish (300mm) D-lock. I am very
inclined to purchase another Abus (Granit X-Plus 54 - that's what the
existing one is). However, I am slightly nervous of teh scenario -
what if someone knows a sneaky trick to get round this particular
lock? Then I'd be better off having two different brands. Is this
likely?

I won't be buying another Kryptonite, but any other suggestions?

My Kryptonite NY lock is fine, but it doesn't get left outside unless
it's securing a bike. It also got replaced for free last year.

When I was originally looking at serious locks, it was either the NY
lock or the Squire Paramount Plus. I think the Squire was longer, which
with hindsight would have been a good thing, but at the time I thought
that would just make it heavier.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

Jon Senior said:

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

Have you tried applying oil? I know that your Abus has suffered the same
abuse and still works, but it strikes me that expecting a fairly intricate
mechanism to survive the British Outdoors without any oil is a little
harsh. The real test should be resistance to thieves surely. If it fairs
well in that respect then it's work two drops of 3-in-one every 4 months.

It gets oiled now-and-then, possibly not as often as it could or
should, but it hasn't been entirely abused.

However, I think it's a bit more complex than just rusting / corroding
/ becoming stiff - the key is supposed to go in the hole and turn 180
degrees. What happens is the key goes in, turns 90 degrees and then
jams solid. There's no stiffening, no give, no play - it's as if it's
got to the end of the travel of the mechanism and hit a steel
end-stop. I think something is broken internally and sometimes falls
such that it jams solid. Once, I managed to open it, but it jammed
trying to get the key back out again.

Plus, there's a bit of a different fault anyway - it seems to use
discs as the 'pins'. Occasionally (often enough that I think "oh no
not again" rather than "that's odd"😉 the discs shift round apparently
on their own and I then have to shake or tap it or wiggle a paper-clip
in the keyhole to get the discs to line up enough to get the key in.
I think they just lie where they rest, without being sprung, so if a
jolt displaces them they key then can't get in.

I'm not highly convinced on the resistance-to-thieves anyhow - it's
fairly solid in its components (though nothing like the Abus I use
alongside it), but the U-bit doesn't feel secure in the straight bit
to me. It feels like the notch in the U is not very engaged by the
bit that engages it, and I basically don't trust it.

So, it's not just a one-off jamming that's put me off it - more a
gradual build-up of annoyance and distrust.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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Ian Smith said:

It gets oiled now-and-then, possibly not as often as it could or
should, but it hasn't been entirely abused.

OK. I wasn't getting at you. It just seemed like a possible solution.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

So, it's not just a one-off jamming that's put me off it - more a
gradual build-up of annoyance and distrust.

Fair enough. C+ seem to do a yearly round up of locks. I don't remember
the results of the last one I read, but I do recall that the winner was a
fairly cheap (but weighty) lock that caused them to burn through two
cutting discs and exceed their 15 min time limit before finally getting it
clear of the bike. Might be worth scouting back issues, perhaps a regular
here might remember the article in question.

Jon

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

I've had exactly this problem with a Kryptonite New York lock that was
outside every day in all sorts of weathers. After a lot of patient
fault-finding, I traced it not to the lock but to the two bar-U
interfaces. I'm still not sure of the exact mechanism of the problem,
but whenever it starts to become a little sticky I give each of the two
'holes' a short blast of teflon lubricant and then operate the lock a
dozen or so times; it did the trick for a couple of months before rinse
and repeat.

R.

Jim Price said:

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

Granted you've told others why you don't think oil helps, but I''ll add
my
voice to those suggesting a few squirts now and again (in my case,
about every nine months or so ...)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I won't be buying another Kryptonite, but any other suggestions?

My Kryptonite NY lock is fine, but it doesn't get left outside unless
it's securing a bike. It also got replaced for free last year.

When I was originally looking at serious locks, it was either the NY
lock or the Squire Paramount Plus. I think the Squire was longer, which
with hindsight would have been a good thing, but at the time I thought
that would just make it heavier.

I've had a Squire Paramount for some years - ten or eleven. Used and
abused: I've left nice (though not nice-looking) bikes in high-risk
places
for longish periods and never had a problem.

In real-life testing my ex had her bag (containing bike keys) nicked,
and
got the fire brigade to cut her bike loose. Also a Paramount, and
apparently it took quite a time, and quite a few bad words, to persuade
their hydraulic cutters through the lock. I took comfort from that ...

The Paramount Plus is thicker, but I think a bit more clumsy.

John

Quoted message said:

I've had a Squire Paramount for some years - ten or eleven. Used and
abused: I've left nice (though not nice-looking) bikes in high-risk
places
for longish periods and never had a problem.

Likewise..

Quoted message said:

In real-life testing my ex had her bag (containing bike keys) nicked,
and
got the fire brigade to cut her bike loose. Also a Paramount, and
apparently it took quite a time, and quite a few bad words, to persuade
their hydraulic cutters through the lock. I took comfort from that ...

Bah.. the only time I had to do a similar sort of lock, I used the
scissor jack from my ovlov. Took about 15 secs to break it open.

I tried the same trick with the one from my Astra and the plastic bits
went ping.

...d

Richard said:

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

I've had exactly this problem with a Kryptonite New York lock that was
outside every day in all sorts of weathers. After a lot of patient
fault-finding, I traced it not to the lock but to the two bar-U
interfaces.

Thanks for the suggestion - I've given that a go.

It does now seem less prone to jamming, though it still jams about
one try in four or five. As I mentioned elsewhere, it doesn't feel
like a lack-of-lubricant jam, but if that's what works, I'll give it a
try.

I still think I'll replace it, but it's nice for it to not be such an
urgent replacement.

regards, Ian SMith
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Ian Smith said:

Richard said:

Ian Smith said:

but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

I've had exactly this problem with a Kryptonite New York lock that was
outside every day in all sorts of weathers. After a lot of patient
fault-finding, I traced it not to the lock but to the two bar-U
interfaces.

Thanks for the suggestion - I've given that a go.

It does now seem less prone to jamming, though it still jams about
one try in four or five.

And with some more working, it hasn't jammed since.

It seems that lubricating the end of the U, and the bit inside the
cross-piece that slides to engage the end of the U has fixed the jam.
I'm struggling to comprehend how or why, but since lubricating that,
it jammed a couple more times, and then hasn't jammed since.

Thanks for the help, all.

regards, Ian SMith
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Ian Smith said:

It seems that lubricating the end of the U, and the bit inside the
cross-piece that slides to engage the end of the U has fixed the jam.
I'm struggling to comprehend how or why,

I don't understand it either. It can't be the rust binding the joint
because it does it instantly. The only explanation that I've come up
with is that when the bolts (for want of a better word) engage with the
cutout in the U, the tolerance is very poor. With dry mating surfaces,
it doesn't line up and thus binds; with some lubrication it slips into
place. But I haven't really convinced myself with this explanation.

R.

Ian Smith said:

Jon Senior said:

Ian Smith said:

Just over 13 month ago, my replacement Kryptonite lock arrived. I
left it on teh bike racks at work, where it does, admittedly, get
rained on. It has been a bit finicky for teh last month or so now,
but last week it took me about 30 minutes to persuade it to open.

If a lock's getting finicky, that's the time to slather every moving
part with 3-in-1. 99% of the time that will stop things getting any
worse.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Have you tried applying oil? I know that your Abus has suffered the same
abuse and still works, but it strikes me that expecting a fairly intricate
mechanism to survive the British Outdoors without any oil is a little
harsh. The real test should be resistance to thieves surely. If it fairs
well in that respect then it's work two drops of 3-in-one every 4 months.

It gets oiled now-and-then, possibly not as often as it could or
should, but it hasn't been entirely abused.

However, I think it's a bit more complex than just rusting / corroding
/ becoming stiff - the key is supposed to go in the hole and turn 180
degrees. What happens is the key goes in, turns 90 degrees and then
jams solid. There's no stiffening, no give, no play - it's as if it's
got to the end of the travel of the mechanism and hit a steel
end-stop. I think something is broken internally and sometimes falls
such that it jams solid. Once, I managed to open it, but it jammed
trying to get the key back out again.

Plus, there's a bit of a different fault anyway - it seems to use
discs as the 'pins'. Occasionally (often enough that I think "oh no
not again" rather than "that's odd"😉 the discs shift round apparently
on their own and I then have to shake or tap it or wiggle a paper-clip
in the keyhole to get the discs to line up enough to get the key in.
I think they just lie where they rest, without being sprung, so if a
jolt displaces them they key then can't get in.

Those are both common for these new disc lock thingies. The first is
because the discs turn 90 degrees before they hit whatever pin
arrangement unlocks them, so if you put the wrong key in you'd get
exactly the same effect.

The second is indeed a pain. Some brands of lock you can get away with
inserting the key into the first disc, wiggling it back and forth until
it inserts a bit further, and so on until you can finally open it.

The disc mechanisms, especially on Kryptos, also seem to be far fussier
than conventional pin-and-tumbler locks. Everything needs to be just
so, and it's entirely possible for something to become not just so
while the bike is locked up.

FWIW I've had good service out of Abus and early Squires, but the later
Squires seem to need far more regular oiling.

Quoted message said:

I'm not highly convinced on the resistance-to-thieves anyhow - it's
fairly solid in its components (though nothing like the Abus I use
alongside it), but the U-bit doesn't feel secure in the straight bit
to me. It feels like the notch in the U is not very engaged by the
bit that engages it, and I basically don't trust it.

So, it's not just a one-off jamming that's put me off it - more a
gradual build-up of annoyance and distrust.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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