Kool-stop shoes: Black vs. Salmon

Adam Rush said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

Quoted message said:

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

IMO, the Kool Stop Salmons are the best pads for any
condition.

Art Harris

Adam Rush said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

I've used both, and while the black is fine (still better
than any other brand), the salmon is better in all
conditions. I have the black ones on my mountain bike right
now -- I couldn't find salmon the last time I needed pads. I
got the "never hearda that" from every bike shop.

Now I know Sheldon's got 'em, I'll plan ahead a little
better from now on.

Matt O.

On 18 May 2004 11:19:04 -0700, [email hidden] (Adam Rush) may have

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

Black works very well, salmon just a little better, both dry
and wet. You won't go wrong with either one in my
experience. (Of course, I have yet to find a pad of any kind
that will grab a steel rim in the wet, but that's a
different subject.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Harris said:

IMO, the Kool Stop Salmons are the best pads for any
condition.

Art Harris

I agree. If you ride in the rain, the salmon pads don't toss
gray [censored] all over the bike.

Barry

Werehatrack said:

On 18 May 2004 11:19:04 -0700, [email hidden] (Adam

Rush) may have said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

Black works very well, salmon just a little better, both
dry and wet. You won't go wrong with either one in my
experience. (Of course, I have yet to find a pad of any
kind that will grab a steel rim in the wet, but that's a
different subject.)

Well, there are those Fibrax leather-faced ones. They work
better than rubber, but not as good as anything on an
alloy rim.

Personally, I'm amazed consumer safety regs still
allow steel rims to be sold. Even the new Raleigh
Chopper has alloy rims; one of the few parts not
dripping with 70s chrome.

Adam Rush said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

I just replaced my front brake pads that were made by Campy
with the black ones made by Kool-Stop. I thought the Campy
brake pads were pretty good but the black Kool-Stop brake
pads are much better. Can't comment on the Salmon colored
ones as I've never used them.

Kenny Lee

Zog The Undeniable said:

Personally, I'm amazed consumer safety regs still allow
steel rims to be sold.

Not all brakes use the rim. Coaster brakes, drum brakes, and
band brakes may as well be laced to a strong, resilient and
inexpensive steel rim. (Not that all steel rims are strong
or resilient!)

Perhaps steel rims will catch on amidst the downhilling
"ride a flat tire to the finish" disc-braked crowd. At least
they are cheap to replace after such tomfoolery.

Chalo Colina

Werehatrack said:

On 18 May 2004 11:19:04 -0700, [email hidden] (Adam

Rush) may have said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

Black works very well, salmon just a little better, both
dry and wet. You won't go wrong with either one in my
experience. (Of course, I have yet to find a pad of any
kind that will grab a steel rim in the wet, but that's a
different subject.)

(I think) the Brits used combination brake blocks with a
surface of rubber with a strip of leather down the middle. A
pressed leather brake pad reputedly will work quite well on
a steel rim in the rain, not so good in the dry. Rubber
works OK in the dry, not so good in the wet. Where you find
beasties like this is a question I can't answer.

David L. Johnson said:

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the
recommendations here. I have to say that they were a real
disappointment in wet weather. My most memorable experience
was last Summer, when a group I was leading were caught in
one of the several drenching downpours we had last year. We
had a long, gentle descent that I thought would be a great
experience. But I spent it desperately trying to slow down
in the pouring rain. I had to clamp full force on the
levers to get any response at all.

Now, to be fair, in good weather these pads are fine, and
they seem much less prone to getting bits of junk embedded
in them than other pads. But in the rain? My fixed gear,
with Campy pads, does much better. My commuter/mountain
bike, with Shimano pads, does better, except that they keep
getting fouled with bits of junk.

My rims are Mavics, probably originally lightly anodized,
but they have enough miles on them so that that would be
worn off. My alternate rear wheel, which I may have been
riding, has a non-anodized rim.

What do you guys who swear by these pads do that I didn't?

Dear David,

Since two other brands of brake pads work better for you on
different bikes, it doesn't sound as if you just need to
squeeze harder or adjust your brakes.

Since you find both Campy and Shimano brake pads better, it
doesn't sound as if you just need to lower your expectations--
post after post claims that the KoolStop salmon pads should
be markedly superior.

Since two bikes are involved, it seems unlikely that you
somehow contaminated both sets of KoolStops with
something bizarre on the road that ruins pads and doesn't
wash or wear off.

Since you say salmon, it's unlikely that you have the less
praiseworthy red KoolStop pads, but just in case, you might
check the bottom of this very long page:

koolstop.combrakesOpen ↗

There might be some markings on the pads themselves or on
the box or bag that they came in, but most people have never
seen the red pads and could understandably take them for
salmon if they were mis-labelled or were handed the wrong
ones by mistake.

Could you have just gotten an unlucky batch of horribly old
or somehow defective pads? That is, did you buy eight
KoolStop pads all at once for the front and rear brakes on
your two bikes?

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the
recommendations here. I have to say that they were a real
disappointment in wet weather. >

snip

Dear All While there are obviously people that don't like
the salmon pads, I have never seen anyone saying that they
thought the red or black pads were better. Why then does
KoolStop make them? Hugh Fenton

David L. Johnson said:

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the
recommendations here. I have to say that they were a
real disappointment in wet weather. My most memorable
experience was last Summer, when a group I was leading
were caught in one of the several drenching downpours we
had last year. We had a long, gentle descent that I
thought would be a great experience. But I spent it
desperately trying to slow down in the pouring rain. I
had to clamp full force on the levers to get any
response at all.

Now, to be fair, in good weather these pads are fine, and
they seem much less prone to getting bits of junk embedded
in them than other pads. But in the rain? My fixed gear,
with Campy pads, does much better. My commuter/mountain
bike, with Shimano pads, does better, except that they
keep getting fouled with bits of junk.

my experiences exactly. i went back to o.e.m.

Quoted message said:

My rims are Mavics, probably originally lightly anodized,
but they have enough miles on them so that that would be
worn off. My alternate rear wheel, which I may have been
riding, has a non-anodized rim.

What do you guys who swear by these pads do that I didn't?

[email hidden] (Adam Rush) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

I got a pair of the salmons, due to the recommendations
here. They are very good in the wet and good in the dry.
I recently got a pair of the black ones and think
they're better in the dry. Haven't tried the black ones
in the rain yet.

The salmons squealed at first in the dry but that stopped.

dkl

David L. Johnson said:

carlfogel said:

Since two other brands of brake pads work better for you
on different bikes, it doesn't sound as if you just need
to squeeze harder or adjust your brakes.

My brakes are adjusted correctly.

Quoted message said:

Since you find both Campy and Shimano brake pads better,
it doesn't sound as if you just need to lower your expectations--
post after post claims that the KoolStop salmon pads
should be markedly superior.

Yeah, but I have not experienced that. This is my second
set; the first was the "continental" style, these are
inserts made to fit Campy holders.

I got the pads from Harris Cyclery, so I presume that they
were not old nor the bogus red ones. I will still use them,
since they do wear well, but I am less happy with them than
I thought I would be.

Maybe people are using vastly different rims than I have? I
have always believed that bare aluminum is the best for
braking. Those who swear by these pads, what sort of rims
do you use?

Dear David,

If these are your second set, that seems to rule out a bad
batch of brake pads.

If your pads came from Harris Cyclery, they should be salmon
KoolStops, not red, since that's all that they sell.

Your Mavic rims are fairly common, so they don't seem likely
to be the cause of the problem. Besides, no one has
mentioned that KoolStops work only with certain rims.

You and Jim Beam are saying that the KoolStops just didn't
work as well for you as claimed, so now I have to wonder
whether others on rec.bicycles.tech have practiced upon my
innocent credulity.

And here I was ready to outfit my Fury RoadMaster with
salmon KoolStops!

Thanks for your timely warning,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

You and Jim Beam are saying that the KoolStops just didn't
work as well for you as claimed, so now I have to wonder
whether others on rec.bicycles.tech have practiced upon my
innocent credulity.

I can't compare to Campy or Shimano pads, but my KoolStop
salmon pads definitely give me better braking than the pads
that came with my Avid Shorty cantilever brakes.

Perhaps other brands have improved in the time since people
here made up their minds about the KoolStops.

I certainly have no complaints about the KoolStops, wet or
dry (with cantilever brakes).

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

Quoted message said:

... If your pads came from Harris Cyclery, they should be
salmon KoolStops, not red, since that's all that they
sell....

Harris also sells the dual compound pads, which are
approximately 2/3 "salmon".
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html>.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Quoted message said:

You and Jim Beam are saying that the KoolStops just didn't
work as well for you as claimed, so now I have to wonder
whether others on rec.bicycles.tech have practiced upon my
innocent credulity.

And here I was ready to outfit my Fury RoadMaster with
salmon KoolStops!

Carl: I've used both black and salmon KoolStop pads
extensively, and have found both to be far superior to the
stock Shimano versions, particularly in terms of rim wear.
The stock Shimano pads have been inconsistent, with the best
of them approximating the wear & stopping power of
KoolStops, but often we find them to be terribly abrasive
and noisy.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

[email hidden] (Adam Rush) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got
to wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've
heard about the salmon being great in rain, but I never
ride my road bike in the rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are
there other, better shoes from somebody else?

Hi, seeing as we have had varied experiences with the Kool-
Stop salmon pads, I'll add mine. I first replaced the
original pads that came with my 1976 Mafac Racer calipers,
these are the type that have the smooth stud. Needless to
say, a vast improvement, as I'm sure any modern pad would
have been. With the original steel rims, they squealed. When
I put a set of wheels on with Mavic MA-40 rims, the
squealing stopped. My LeMond Tourmalet has generic calipers,
probably made by Tektro. They do have the Shimano style shoe
holders, that take the Dura-Ace/Ultegra refills. The salmon
refills are superior to the pads that came with the bike,
and no squealing. I got the first pair through Sheldon and
the second set locally. I never ride in the rain either, at
least I never plan to, it has happened. Least important, but
a plus, is that I think they look good. One more detail to
your one of a kind, personalized bike. The only way to know
for sure, is to give them a try.

Life is Good! Jeff