Kool-stop shoes: Black vs. Salmon

Adam Rush said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

Quoted message said:

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

IMO, the Kool Stop Salmons are the best pads for any condition.

Art Harris

Adam Rush said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

I've used both, and while the black is fine (still better than any other brand),
the salmon is better in all conditions. I have the black ones on my mountain
bike right now -- I couldn't find salmon the last time I needed pads. I got the
"never hearda that" from every bike shop.

Now I know Sheldon's got 'em, I'll plan ahead a little better from now on.

Matt O.

On 18 May 2004 11:19:04 -0700, [email hidden] (Adam Rush) may have

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

Black works very well, salmon just a little better, both dry and wet.
You won't go wrong with either one in my experience. (Of course, I
have yet to find a pad of any kind that will grab a steel rim in the
wet, but that's a different subject.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Harris said:

IMO, the Kool Stop Salmons are the best pads for any condition.

Art Harris

I agree. If you ride in the rain, the salmon pads don't toss gray
[censored] all over the bike.

Barry

Werehatrack said:

On 18 May 2004 11:19:04 -0700, [email hidden] (Adam Rush) may have

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

Black works very well, salmon just a little better, both dry and wet.
You won't go wrong with either one in my experience. (Of course, I
have yet to find a pad of any kind that will grab a steel rim in the
wet, but that's a different subject.)

Well, there are those Fibrax leather-faced ones. They work better than
rubber, but not as good as anything on an alloy rim.

Personally, I'm amazed consumer safety regs still allow steel rims to be
sold. Even the new Raleigh Chopper has alloy rims; one of the few parts
not dripping with 70s chrome.

Adam Rush said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

I just replaced my front brake pads that were made by Campy with the
black ones made by Kool-Stop. I thought the Campy brake pads were pretty
good but the black Kool-Stop brake pads are much better. Can't comment
on the Salmon colored ones as I've never used them.

Kenny Lee

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the recommendations here.
I have to say that they were a real disappointment in wet weather. My
most memorable experience was last Summer, when a group I was leading were
caught in one of the several drenching downpours we had last year. We had
a long, gentle descent that I thought would be a great experience. But I
spent it desperately trying to slow down in the pouring rain. I had to
clamp full force on the levers to get any response at all.

Now, to be fair, in good weather these pads are fine, and they seem much
less prone to getting bits of junk embedded in them than other pads. But
in the rain? My fixed gear, with Campy pads, does much better. My
commuter/mountain bike, with Shimano pads, does better, except that they
keep getting fouled with bits of junk.

My rims are Mavics, probably originally lightly anodized, but they have
enough miles on them so that that would be worn off. My alternate rear
wheel, which I may have been riding, has a non-anodized rim.

What do you guys who swear by these pads do that I didn't?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

Zog The Undeniable said:

Personally, I'm amazed consumer safety regs still allow steel rims to be
sold.

Not all brakes use the rim. Coaster brakes, drum brakes, and band
brakes may as well be laced to a strong, resilient and inexpensive
steel rim. (Not that all steel rims are strong or resilient!)

Perhaps steel rims will catch on amidst the downhilling "ride a flat
tire to the finish" disc-braked crowd. At least they are cheap to
replace after such tomfoolery.

Chalo Colina

Werehatrack said:

On 18 May 2004 11:19:04 -0700, [email hidden] (Adam Rush) may

have said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there
other, better shoes from somebody else?

Black works very well, salmon just a little better, both dry and
wet. You won't go wrong with either one in my experience. (Of
course, I have yet to find a pad of any kind that will grab a steel
rim in the wet, but that's a different subject.)

(I think) the Brits used combination brake blocks with a surface of
rubber with a strip of leather down the middle. A pressed leather
brake pad reputedly will work quite well on a steel rim in the rain,
not so good in the dry. Rubber works OK in the dry, not so good in
the wet. Where you find beasties like this is a question I can't
answer.

David L. Johnson said:

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the recommendations here.
I have to say that they were a real disappointment in wet weather. My
most memorable experience was last Summer, when a group I was leading were
caught in one of the several drenching downpours we had last year. We had
a long, gentle descent that I thought would be a great experience. But I
spent it desperately trying to slow down in the pouring rain. I had to
clamp full force on the levers to get any response at all.

Now, to be fair, in good weather these pads are fine, and they seem much
less prone to getting bits of junk embedded in them than other pads. But
in the rain? My fixed gear, with Campy pads, does much better. My
commuter/mountain bike, with Shimano pads, does better, except that they
keep getting fouled with bits of junk.

My rims are Mavics, probably originally lightly anodized, but they have
enough miles on them so that that would be worn off. My alternate rear
wheel, which I may have been riding, has a non-anodized rim.

What do you guys who swear by these pads do that I didn't?

Dear David,

Since two other brands of brake pads work better for you on different
bikes, it doesn't sound as if you just need to squeeze harder or
adjust your brakes.

Since you find both Campy and Shimano brake pads better, it doesn't
sound as if you just need to lower your expectations--post after post
claims that the KoolStop salmon pads should be markedly superior.

Since two bikes are involved, it seems unlikely that you somehow
contaminated both sets of KoolStops with something bizarre on the road
that ruins pads and doesn't wash or wear off.

Since you say salmon, it's unlikely that you have the less
praiseworthy red KoolStop pads, but just in case, you might check the
bottom of this very long page:

http://www.koolstop.com/brakes

There might be some markings on the pads themselves or on the box or
bag that they came in, but most people have never seen the red pads
and could understandably take them for salmon if they were
mis-labelled or were handed the wrong ones by mistake.

Could you have just gotten an unlucky batch of horribly old or somehow
defective pads? That is, did you buy eight KoolStop pads all at once
for the front and rear brakes on your two bikes?

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the recommendations here.
I have to say that they were a real disappointment in wet weather. >

snip

Dear All
While there are obviously people that don't like the salmon pads, I have
never seen anyone saying that they thought the red or black pads were
better. Why then does KoolStop make them?
Hugh Fenton

David L. Johnson said:

I got a pair of kool-stop salmon pads, based on the recommendations here.
I have to say that they were a real disappointment in wet weather. My
most memorable experience was last Summer, when a group I was leading were
caught in one of the several drenching downpours we had last year. We had
a long, gentle descent that I thought would be a great experience. But I
spent it desperately trying to slow down in the pouring rain. I had to
clamp full force on the levers to get any response at all.

Now, to be fair, in good weather these pads are fine, and they seem much
less prone to getting bits of junk embedded in them than other pads. But
in the rain? My fixed gear, with Campy pads, does much better. My
commuter/mountain bike, with Shimano pads, does better, except that they
keep getting fouled with bits of junk.

my experiences exactly. i went back to o.e.m.

Quoted message said:

My rims are Mavics, probably originally lightly anodized, but they have
enough miles on them so that that would be worn off. My alternate rear
wheel, which I may have been riding, has a non-anodized rim.

What do you guys who swear by these pads do that I didn't?

carlfogel said:

Since two other brands of brake pads work better for you on different
bikes, it doesn't sound as if you just need to squeeze harder or
adjust your brakes.

My brakes are adjusted correctly.

Quoted message said:

Since you find both Campy and Shimano brake pads better, it doesn't
sound as if you just need to lower your expectations--post after post
claims that the KoolStop salmon pads should be markedly superior.

Yeah, but I have not experienced that. This is my second set; the first
was the "continental" style, these are inserts made to fit Campy holders.

I got the pads from Harris Cyclery, so I presume that they were not old
nor the bogus red ones. I will still use them, since they do wear well,
but I am less happy with them than I thought I would be.

Maybe people are using vastly different rims than I have? I have always
believed that bare aluminum is the best for braking. Those who swear by
these pads, what sort of rims do you use?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can assure
_`\(,_ | you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
(_)/ (_) |

[email hidden] (Adam Rush) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

I got a pair of the salmons, due to the recommendations here. They are
very good in the wet and good in the dry. I recently got a pair of the
black ones and think they're better in the dry. Haven't tried the black
ones in the rain yet.

The salmons squealed at first in the dry but that stopped.

dkl

David L. Johnson said:

carlfogel said:

Since two other brands of brake pads work better for you on different
bikes, it doesn't sound as if you just need to squeeze harder or
adjust your brakes.

My brakes are adjusted correctly.

Quoted message said:

Since you find both Campy and Shimano brake pads better, it doesn't
sound as if you just need to lower your expectations--post after post
claims that the KoolStop salmon pads should be markedly superior.

Yeah, but I have not experienced that. This is my second set; the first
was the "continental" style, these are inserts made to fit Campy holders.

I got the pads from Harris Cyclery, so I presume that they were not old
nor the bogus red ones. I will still use them, since they do wear well,
but I am less happy with them than I thought I would be.

Maybe people are using vastly different rims than I have? I have always
believed that bare aluminum is the best for braking. Those who swear by
these pads, what sort of rims do you use?

Dear David,

If these are your second set, that seems to rule out a bad batch of
brake pads.

If your pads came from Harris Cyclery, they should be salmon
KoolStops, not red, since that's all that they sell.

Your Mavic rims are fairly common, so they don't seem likely to be the
cause of the problem. Besides, no one has mentioned that KoolStops
work only with certain rims.

You and Jim Beam are saying that the KoolStops just didn't work as
well for you as claimed, so now I have to wonder whether others on
rec.bicycles.tech have practiced upon my innocent credulity.

And here I was ready to outfit my Fury RoadMaster with salmon
KoolStops!

Thanks for your timely warning,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

...
If your pads came from Harris Cyclery, they should be salmon
KoolStops, not red, since that's all that they sell....

Harris also sells the dual compound pads, which are approximately 2/3
"salmon".
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html>.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Quoted message said:

You and Jim Beam are saying that the KoolStops just didn't work as
well for you as claimed, so now I have to wonder whether others on
rec.bicycles.tech have practiced upon my innocent credulity.

And here I was ready to outfit my Fury RoadMaster with salmon
KoolStops!

Carl: I've used both black and salmon KoolStop pads extensively, and have
found both to be far superior to the stock Shimano versions, particularly in
terms of rim wear. The stock Shimano pads have been inconsistent, with the
best of them approximating the wear & stopping power of KoolStops, but often
we find them to be terribly abrasive and noisy.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[email hidden] (Adam Rush) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was looking through the Kool-Stop website today and got to
wondering, which color is best for dry conditions. I've heard about
the salmon being great in rain, but I never ride my road bike in the
rain.

In your experience, is the black best in this case? Are there other,
better shoes from somebody else?

Hi, seeing as we have had varied experiences with the Kool-Stop salmon
pads, I'll add mine.
I first replaced the original pads that came with my 1976 Mafac Racer
calipers, these are the type that have the smooth stud. Needless to
say, a vast improvement, as I'm sure any modern pad would have been.
With the original steel rims, they squealed. When I put a set of
wheels on with Mavic MA-40 rims, the squealing stopped.
My LeMond Tourmalet has generic calipers, probably made by Tektro.
They do have the Shimano style shoe holders, that take the
Dura-Ace/Ultegra refills. The salmon refills are superior to the pads
that came with the bike, and no squealing.
I got the first pair through Sheldon and the second set locally.
I never ride in the rain either, at least I never plan to, it has
happened.
Least important, but a plus, is that I think they look good. One more
detail to your one of a kind, personalized bike.
The only way to know for sure, is to give them a try.

Life is Good!
Jeff