Know anything about expedition tourers ?

SW said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

Does anyone know the dis/advantages of each on this type of bike ?

I have a Thorn Nomad (older type, superseded by the EXP+ as their flagship tourer). SJS Cycles allow
the buyer to specify flat or dropped bars, but with flat bars you virtually have an MTB with
braze-ons - so if you like flat bars, have a look at this option.

Expedition tourers are so expensive due to their specialist nature that it would probably be worth
buying a good steel-framed MTB - maybe a secondhand Kona from the 1990s - and having the missing
braze-ons (low rider bosses, dynamo boss) added.

Just a thought!

Roger

I just bought a Dawes Audax (drops) which I am very pleased with although £800 does seem a lotta
wonga. It is nice and strong and plenty fast enough and the gears are a dream. I think you can get
cheaper by going mail-order and getting a bike built to your exact specifications. But as I don't
know much about bikes I went for the easier off-the-peg option.

One thing that astonished me, though, was that you cannot adjust the handle-bars (!). So I have had
to buy an extension add-on (only about £5.00) to raise them up a few cms. Oh, and then buy longer
brake cables of course...

"SW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

Does anyone know the dis/advantages of each on this type of bike ?

Ta.

In message <[email hidden]>, SW
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

Does anyone know the dis/advantages of each on this type of bike ?

Really I think personal preference is very much the thing here, as well as any intentions as to
where exactly you might be touring with this bike.

On rough terrain, then the flat bars probably give better control, but for longer road distances I
don't find them as comfortable, even with bar ends etc. Though the bars I put on my 'utility' bike a
couple of years ago, where the ends of the bars are angled towards the rider a bit (about 18 degrees
from straight I think) are much more comfortable than the MTB flat bars of old.

For touring I always come back to drops - I may not use the drops a lot , but I like having them
there for when I do want to use them.

Then again lots of Dutch people seem to like touring with a very upright position, I think a lot
depends on what you are used to.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In article said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

You could go for both at once - well it works for Sheldon :-)
sheldonbrown.com2 bars.htmlOpen ↗

[email hidden] (SW) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

Does anyone know the dis/advantages of each on this type of bike ?

Ta.

I ride my flat barred commuter 3 or 4 times a week for 9 to 12 miles each way. Very comfortable. I
used it for a weekend tour recently as my drop bar tourer was off the road. Both days I found my
hands were uncomfortable after 20-25 miles. Drop bars give more variety in handlebar positions. But
personal preference is the most important factor. If you don,t have a drop bar bike borrow one or
hire one for a weekend before you decide. cheers Iain C

[email hidden] (Alan Braggins) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

You could go for both at once - well it works for Sheldon :-)
sheldonbrown.com2 bars.htmlOpen ↗

Very nice. Does it come with a first aid kit and free dental insurance ?

Quoted message said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar. Does anyone know the dis/advantages of each
on this type of bike ?

I've just changed from a flat bar to a drop and overall I'm quite happy with
it. It feels quite strange at first and I haven't got quite the same amount of control, probably
due to the handlebars being narrower, but this doesn't stop me weaving through traffic, it's
more a psychological thing. The riding position makes you want to go faster and, being slightly
closer to the road makes everything seem faster too. The extra weight on the arms hasn't been a
problem (will probably tone them up quite nicely), and being bent over means bumps don't jar
the back as much and head winds are *far* easier to cope with. My brakes aren't reachable when
holding the top middle bit of the bar (MTB style) which I'm not too keen on, but I've seen
others that do reach. I've got the integrated break/gear shifts which are a dream - I wouldn't
buy a drop handlebar bike without them. Looking over your shoulder is a little more difficult
than with flats, but is still no problem for me. Haven't taken it for any big rides so I'm not
sure how comfortable it'll be compared to flats but everyone says drops are better long
distance. The other benefit is that drops being out of fashion, the thieves in manchester are
less likely to nick it! The main gripe is that with all the different riding positions I'm not
sure where to put the bell. If you're a slow, fair weather (i.e. never be bothered about strong
headwinds) rider, or just cycle about town, I'd probably go with flats, simply because it's
easier to look around at the scenery. As I like the idea of hurtling around, hate headwinds and
will do long, long rides I took a risk with the flashier style and it's worked out ok. Still
envy those on their MTBs with suspension tho...

(SW) said:

I am thinking about buying one of these bikes but can't decide whether to go for the flat
handlebar/MTB style or the traditional drop handlebar.

Does anyone know the dis/advantages of each on this type of bike ?

With flat handlebars your hands are in a single position all the teim. This will lead to stain after
a while and can contribute to palsies. Mountain bike style bar-ends allow you to choose between two
positions, on the bars or on the horns. Traditional bends allow you a range of positions, on the
tops, on the hoods or on the bends, and this also affects your posture so that you can ease stress
in your lumbar region by moving from a relatively upright position down to a relaxed slouch and
vice-versa.

Generally I would not choose straight bars for a bike on which you are going to spend a lot of time.

However, straight bars are generally wider, giving you better leverage and control at very low
speeds. If you expect that a high proportion of your touring will be on rough singletrack, straight
bars are worth considering.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With flat handlebars your hands are in a single position all the teim. This will lead to stain
after a while and can contribute to palsies. Mountain bike style bar-ends allow you to choose
between two positions, on the bars or on the horns. Traditional bends allow you a range of
positions, on the tops, on the hoods or on the bends, and this also affects your posture so that
you can ease stress in your lumbar region by moving from a relatively upright position down to a
relaxed slouch and vice-versa.

Generally I would not choose straight bars for a bike on which you are going to spend a lot
of time.

However, straight bars are generally wider, giving you better leverage and control at very low
speeds. If you expect that a high proportion of your touring will be on rough singletrack,
straight bars are worth considering.

I'll pretty much second that. I have used both for touring and have been happy with both -- though
the tours were different in character. For touring the principle requirement is comfort -- so be
happy with what you choose. Butterfly bars are a further alternative -- giving some thing of both
the others.

The short, stubby bar ends give relatively few positional changes -- longer ones are better.
However, if you are sitting more upright then you will be putting more weight on you bum & less on
your hands -- so, perhaps, you don't need quite so much variation.

For touring in hot countries I find a Camelbak useful -- though generally I dislike back packs when
cycling. A Camelbak works best (for me) in a fairly upright position -- so that would push me
towards flat bars.

But for temperate tours on good roads you can't beat drops.

YMMV

T

Tony W said:

For touring in hot countries I find a Camelbak useful -- though generally I dislike back packs
when cycling. A Camelbak works best (for me) in a fairly upright position -- so that would push me
towards flat bars.

H'mmmm... I've never used a camelback. Do you normally carry bottles on your frame? If so, why is a
camelback better?

I sort-of partly know the answer: back in the eighties, when I was doing seriously long distances a
lot, I used an adapted water bottle in a standard cage on the frame, with some car windscreen washer
hose leading up the frame and looped loosely over my bars. That meant it was easy to sip as I went
along. But the hose was a nuisance to clean, and I learned to grab the bottle out of the cage and
drink on the move...

Is it the ease of taking a sip which makes the camelback win for you? If not, then what is it?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony W said:

For touring in hot countries I find a Camelbak useful -- though

generally I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dislike back packs when cycling. A Camelbak works best (for me) in a

fairly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

upright position -- so that would push me towards flat bars.

H'mmmm... I've never used a camelback. Do you normally carry bottles on your frame? If so, why is
a camelback better?

I bought the camelbak (actually a platypus) for a six week tour of India. It had the advantage of
quantity over bottles -- I would load in nearly 3 litres each morning and then top up during the
day. I am not sure I could have carried enough in bottles (though I did take them with me but dumped
them once it became clear that the CB was doing the job.

Also, I used the storage capacity of the back pack (a couple of litres) to carry my 'valuables'
(passport, tickets, money) in a place that would be difficult to steal.

I had had a bad touch of Delhi Belly the year before in India (on a 1 week tour) which might have
been due to getting the bottle or the teat dirty. Whatever, it resulted in 10 days constantly within
about 4 seconds of a bog
:~( -- too much information !!

In temperate climes I do prefer bottles and have not used the CB on more than a couple of occasions
since returning from India (though I do use the back pack occasionally.

T

Mark Thompson <[email hidden]> wrote <snip>

Quoted message said:

My brakes aren't reachable when holding the top middle bit of the bar (MTB style) which I'm not
too keen on, but I've seen others that do reach.

If this bothers you, you can get additional brake levers that go on the middle to the bars in
addition to your main brakes. They work by forcing a gap in the outer cable housing, quite well
apparently. There are some pictured on p29 of the current issue of Cycling Weekly if you want to see
what I mean.

Quoted message said:

I've got the integrated break/gear shifts which are a dream - I wouldn't buy a drop handlebar bike
without them. Looking over your shoulder is a little more difficult than with flats, but is still
no problem for me. Haven't taken it for any big rides so I'm not sure how comfortable it'll be
compared to flats but everyone says drops are better long distance. The other benefit is that
drops being out of fashion, the thieves in manchester are less likely to nick it! The main gripe
is that with all the different riding positions I'm not sure where to put the

bell.

I use a Minoura Space-grip for mounting my computer, so I can turn my bike over without scratching
it up. I put a bell on the other side.

Quoted message said:

If you're a slow, fair weather (i.e. never be bothered about strong headwinds) rider, or just
cycle about town, I'd probably go with flats, simply because it's easier to look around at the
scenery. As I like the idea of hurtling around, hate headwinds and will do long, long rides I

took

Quoted message said:

a risk with the flashier style and it's worked out ok. Still envy those

on

Quoted message said:

their MTBs with suspension tho...

Quoted message said:

H'mmmm... I've never used a camelback. Do you normally carry bottles on your frame? If so, why is a
camelback better?

You can carry a greater quantity of fluid that takes less space as you drink it & you don't tend to
notice the weight on your back as much as on the bike. ;-)

<snip snip>

Quoted message said:

Is it the ease of taking a sip which makes the camelback win for you? If not, then what is it?

I have short arms and reaching down to the bottom tube would be quite a stretch.

There is one drawback for me which is that I can never easily tell how much liquid I have left
without having a peek inside or feel. Sometimes it's difficult to feel when you have lots of other
stuff in your back.

Originally I bought a Camelbak Rogue but found it didn't have enough space for things. What I do now
is I've taken the reservoir out and use it in other bags with more storage space, that also have a
sleeve for a hydration pack. If you already have such a bag, the best bet might be to buy just the
reservoir and put it in there.

As Tony says, you don't want to get the bite valve end dirty. On my Camelbak the bitevalve is an
L-shape. My previous system was like a straw which kept getting dirtied each time I put the bag on
the ground. This is something else worth looking out for. It's not nice for your bitevalve to end up
on the ground on a bridleway. No way of knowing what the horses have been eating!

Cheers for the advice.

Mark Thompson.

ouch said:

You can carry a greater quantity of fluid that takes less space as you drink it & you don't tend
to notice the weight on your back as much as on the bike. ;-)

I'm not really convinced. I notice any weight on my back more than on the bike, and everyone who
uses panniers rather than a rucksack is likely to find the same. The amount of space a bottle takes
on the frame might remains a constant, but who cares? Greater quantity is only a real win if you
never stop, but if you do (I do) then recharging a bottle from a Master Reservoir in a pannier
removes the problem (for a Master Reservoir, a collapsing bottle like a platypus bladder with a
screw top is ideal, as it does shrink with volume carried).

I like a platypus in the sea kayak (goes in the back pocket of my BA), and XC skiing (when my hands
are full), and it's good on the MTB when comfort isn't much of a consideration, you may not want to
take your hands off the bars for a fair stretch and it's easier to shield the valve from flying cack
without awkward flip-off covers. But on the road there's not that much to be gained AFAICT with any
extra convenience outweighed by having to carry a backpack, even a small one.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not really convinced. I notice any weight on my back more than on the bike, and everyone who
uses panniers rather than a rucksack is likely to find the same.

I was pleasantly surprised. For road riding, I'll stick with panniers/bottles, but the camelback
style rucksack I got this spring is pretty good for off road stuff - I don't really notice it's
presence. Not the lightest one either - I tend to put about 2l of fluid in, and tools. I now use it
for summer walking too.

cheers, clive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can carry a greater quantity of fluid that takes less space as you drink it & you don't tend
to notice the weight on your back as much as on the bike. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I'm not really convinced.

<snip snip>

Maybe each to their own. I used to carry my Ulock + water bottle on my bike but it seems to affect
the handling of the bike so I took them off. Maybe I was just imagining it though. I prefer to ride
with something on my back than on the bike.

The big benefit to me is during hot summers. When you're XC riding you don't always get to make
drink stops when you need them and the extra capacity over a water bottle really helps. During the
winter I only carry the Camelbak half full because I just don't need as much fluid.

Quoted message said:

I like a platypus in the sea kayak (goes in the back pocket of my BA), and XC skiing (when my hands
are full), and it's good on the MTB when comfort isn't much of a consideration, you may not want to
take your hands off the bars for a fair stretch and it's easier to shield the valve from flying
cack without awkward flip-off covers. But on the road there's not that much to be gained AFAICT
with any extra convenience outweighed by having to carry a backpack, even a small one.

Pete.

Sorry if the original post was for road cycling. I only saw the reply. I only XC so can only tell
you from that perspective.

ouch said:

The big benefit to me is during hot summers. When you're XC riding you don't always get to make
drink stops when you need them and the extra capacity over a water bottle really helps.

XC is a rather different matter to roads though. Stuff on your back is effectively "sprung
weight", even on a rigid bike, so given the more critical role of shifting weight about on the
rough stuff it makes more difference there, and can make pretty good sense. I also like the
bladders off road because there are times when I really, really want to minimise the time spent
without my hands on the bars!

But on the road, carrying stuff on the frame I've paid all that money to support things with is
stuff I'm not carrying on me, and that's a Good Thing :-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗