knee problem- links?

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am looking for web sites that discuss knee problems for bicyclists and some of the adjustments
that can be made in seat position and height. Anything on the general physiology/forces would also
be helpful.

I have a recurring knee pain, localized lower inside knee cap. Doctors have told me that it is
basic degeneration (arthritis?). It seems to come and go, but is definitely aggravated by certain
positions. I am about to start a series of position changes to study what is at work and what
makes things better. Rather than just start randomly moving things around, I'd like a good
orientation to the basic issues.

Thanks.

try roadcycling.comkneepain.shtmlOpen ↗

good luck, Richard Stanz

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:36:25 GMT, "Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My goal is to be the first 80 year old to do the BMB, heck, I've got more than 25 years to
train.

What's the oldest rider? That's not an easy course - we're talking 15degree grade and some
10degree, right?

There was a British guy who did it in his 70's, I don't think he's still doing it, but I could be
wrong. I have a friend who did it in his 60's, but decided to stop as it "took too much out of him".
This same guy was famous locally for completing a BMB in his late 50's then driving to work &
putting in a full shift!

Quoted message said:

Would you say that's comparable to the Iron Man, or harder? (I'm talking relative effort to the
whole course, not just the 112mi bike in windy, hot-box conditions)

That's a difficult comparison. I think the 1200K ultra-cycling events are tougher from an endurance
point of view, simply because they last much longer. The premier long-distance cyclists commonly
ride continuously hard for 48 hours or so, with barely any rest breaks. The epitome of this is the
RAAM competitors who ride for a week or more. Even the back-of-the-pack finishers who beat the 90 hr
cutoff on a 1200K can spend ~70 hr of saddle time.

Even among enthusiastic cyclists, these endurance events are sometimes considered crazy. I think the
effort of pushing yourself way beyond your preconceived limits is a very rich experience. It's
definitely a roller coaster ride of highs and lows. If there's a brevet series in your area, and you
have any interest, I'd encourage you to give it a go.

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Thanks. I guess I am pretty lucky health-wise. I'm 6'10", 235 lb (not a

typo).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I belong to a large road club ( www.crw.org) in the Boston area

Well, at that size, you certainly couldn't belong to a "small" road club. <G>

I guess I left myself open for that one...

Peter Cole said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:36:25 GMT, "Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My goal is to be the first 80 year old to do the BMB, heck, I've got more than 25 years to
train.

What's the oldest rider? That's not an easy course - we're talking 15degree grade and some
10degree, right?

There was a British guy who did it in his 70's, I don't think he's still doing it, but I could be
wrong. I have a friend who did it in his 60's, but decided to stop as it "took too much out of
him". This same guy was famous locally for completing a BMB in his late 50's then driving to work &
putting in a full shift!

Quoted message said:

Would you say that's comparable to the Iron Man, or harder? (I'm talking relative effort to the
whole course, not just the 112mi bike in windy, hot-box conditions)

That's a difficult comparison. I think the 1200K ultra-cycling events are tougher from an endurance
point of view, simply because they last much longer. The premier long-distance cyclists commonly
ride continuously hard for 48 hours or so, with barely any rest breaks. The epitome of this is the
RAAM competitors who ride for a week or more. Even the back-of-the-pack finishers who beat the 90
hr cutoff on a 1200K can spend ~70 hr of saddle time.

Yes, I remember some coverage of the RAAM, and some of the bikers were actively hallucinating and
soforth, at times. I think you have to have a good support van to do this, although, no doubt some
have done without.

I also like the Eco-Challenge Adventure racing:

exn.cafull team.aspOpen ↗

...but only as a spectator... ;-)

Quoted message said:

Even among enthusiastic cyclists, these endurance events are sometimes considered crazy. I think
the effort of pushing yourself way beyond your preconceived limits is a very rich experience. It's
definitely a roller coaster ride of highs and lows. If there's a brevet series in your area, and
you have any interest, I'd encourage you to give it a go.

I'm still at a very low level of riding ability, but I ride every day and push myself. Who knows
what another couple years of this will do. I've done a minor streak since August, with only a few
days missed due to snow, which I've tried to keep alive using the sta. bike, but that's cheating...
I'm at 138 continuous days (so to speak) since last Fall.

I'll do things to push beyond, like 'stranding' myself a little further out of town than I know I
can do, having the wife drop me off and then I have to make it home...I've done that jogging a few
times, but not on the bike lately.

-B

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: <snip problem description>

Quoted message said:

First, try something really simple and free. Assuming you're using clipless pedals, move your
cleats *back* (towards the rear of the shoe). This reduces the leverage that can be exerted on
your tendons & ligaments and can sometimes yield miraculous results. Absolutely nothing to lose
for trying, and it's worked for a lot of our customers (as well as myself, many years ago).

Mike,

I tried this today as my knees generally get a bit sore when cycling. As I had my cleats set up
'professionally' when I bought them a year ago I had put it down to 'just the way things are'.

Anyway, it has made a VERY significant difference!

So, thanks for one of the best bits of advice I've ever had off the internet.

Cheers!

Pete

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yes, I remember some coverage of the RAAM, and some of the bikers were actively hallucinating and
soforth, at times. I think you have to have a good support van to do this, although, no doubt some
have done without.

We have a RAAM racer in our club too. There are various divisions (single, tandem, mixed-
tandem, 4-(wo)man team, etc.), but I think all rely on a van following behind to support &
light the way at night.

Quoted message said:

I also like the Eco-Challenge Adventure racing:

exn.cafull team.aspOpen ↗

...but only as a spectator... ;-)

Yeah, they're fun to watch, but I've kind of lost my taste for spectator sports (except the TdF,
of course).

Quoted message said:

I'm still at a very low level of riding ability, but I ride every day and push myself. Who knows
what another couple years of this will do. I've done a minor streak since August, with only a few
days missed due to snow, which I've tried to keep alive using the sta. bike, but that's
cheating... I'm at 138 continuous days (so to speak) since last Fall.

I'll do things to push beyond, like 'stranding' myself a little further out of town than I know I
can do, having the wife drop me off and then I have to make it home...I've done that jogging a few
times, but not on the bike lately.

I started out that way myself, going out solo on longer and longer loops, I would push the turn
around point further out the stronger I felt. I did my first century that way, solo & pretty much
unintentional. These days, I do most long distance riding with groups, although I frequently do
long stretches of it alone. As much as I like the company, there are very few butts I want to look
at all day long.

Around here (Boston) we're lucky enough to have enough long organized rides that you can pretty much
do one every week during the season. We also have the brevet series, the Pan Mass Challenge and the
BMB, all of which draw cyclists from out of state.

Peter Cole said:

I started out that way myself, going out solo on longer and longer loops, I would push the turn
around point further out the stronger I felt. I did my first century that way, solo & pretty much
unintentional.

Sure. Some days I feel strong and that's when I'd want to 'catch the wave', but in clarification,
you only know if you're 'strong' after you are out on the ride, IME, so that's a great strategy.

What I'd like to try is some long distances on the flat. My brother lives in Va Beach and there's a
loop there that I might ride, but the traffic is so bad down there that, gee, I'm not sure about it
these days.

Thanks for the tips, Peter.

-B

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:53:10 -0500, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

I started out that way myself, going out solo on longer and longer loops, I would push the turn
around point further out the stronger I felt. I did my first century that way, solo & pretty much
unintentional.

Sure. Some days I feel strong and that's when I'd want to 'catch the wave', but in clarification,
you only know if you're 'strong' after you are out on the ride, IME, so that's a great strategy.

What I'd like to try is some long distances on the flat. My brother lives in Va Beach and there's a
loop there that I might ride, but the traffic is so bad down there that, gee, I'm not sure about it
these days.

That, and Va Beach is full of kite flyers. we know what *they're* like in traffic.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tips, Peter.

-B

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

What I'd like to try is some long distances on the flat. My brother lives in Va Beach and there's
a loop there that I might ride, but the traffic is so bad down there that, gee, I'm not sure about
it these days.

That, and Va Beach is full of kite flyers. we know what *they're* like in traffic.

-Luigi

Nothing makes me as nervous as riding behind a long line of fisherman casting over the side of a
bridge. Since I have a couple of memories of removing fish hooks from thumbs from my childhood, it
doesn't take much imagination to make me drift further and further to the left.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

First, try something really simple and free. Assuming you're using

clipless

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pedals, move your cleats *back* (towards the rear of the shoe). This reduces the leverage that
can be exerted on your tendons & ligaments and

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sometimes yield miraculous results. Absolutely nothing to lose for

trying,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and it's worked for a lot of our customers (as well as myself, many

years

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ago).

Mike,

I tried this today as my knees generally get a bit sore when cycling. As I had my cleats set up
'professionally' when I bought them a year ago I had put it down to 'just the way things are'.

Anyway, it has made a VERY significant difference!

It's amazing how many people have been helped simply by moving their cleats towards the back of the
shoe, and yet you find virtually no mention of it anywhere. Glad it worked for you. It not for the
trouble I had in Colorado Springs back in 1986, I wouldn't have figured it out.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:41:54 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction

Bicycles said:

It's amazing how many people have been helped simply by moving their cleats towards the back of the
shoe, and yet you find virtually no mention of it anywhere.

Books by Bicycling Magazine's editors Ed Pavelka and a couple others suggest it. I read it in
Bicycling's "Complete book of long distance cycling" and "Complete book of road cycling skills".
Despite the way Bicycling is put down in this newsgroup, those books are full of useful, solid
information, well organized and pretty well concentrated.

They'll definitely help me this year. I found them both in the library, and already bought one at a
book store, and intend to buy the other too.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

It's amazing how many people have been helped simply by moving their cleats towards the back of
the shoe, and yet you find virtually no mention of it anywhere.

Books by Bicycling Magazine's editors Ed Pavelka and a couple others suggest it. I read it in
Bicycling's "Complete book of long distance cycling" and "Complete book of road cycling skills".
Despite the way Bicycling is put down in this newsgroup, those books are full of useful, solid
information, well organized and pretty well concentrated.

They'll definitely help me this year. I found them both in the library, and already bought one at a
book store, and intend to buy the other too.

We want the .pdf version! We demand it. <giggle>

-B