knee health - why does my knee hurt?

Brian Link said:

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

I don't know about it being an issue with your lifting, but I bet it's
an issue with the rest of your life.

I'm your age, similar history, and IIRC you used to be pretty fat at one
point, too, right?

Knees take a lot of [censored] when you're out of alignment for something. It
could be ankle flexibility is poor, it could be over or under pronation,
it could be tight thigh muscles that impinge range of motion, it could
be hip socket issues, it could be heel pain (plantar fasciitis)that
makes you limp ... if one piece is screwed up then the knee takes the grief.

I don't know who the right person is to see about this. My Mom's a
neuromuscular massage therapist and she's always harping at me about
alignment. A chiropractor might be helpful. There's some mythical
perfect sports therapist that I've never seen in real life that people
like - a physiotherapist I think it's called. An orthopedist will want
to operate.

My feeling about all this is that God heals and doctors send the bills.
Figure it out for yourself. And buy some new running shoes.

Dally

Dally said:

Brian Link said:

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

I don't know about it being an issue with your lifting, but I bet it's
an issue with the rest of your life.

I'm your age, similar history, and IIRC you used to be pretty fat at one
point, too, right?

Knees take a lot of [censored] when you're out of alignment for something. It
could be ankle flexibility is poor, it could be over or under pronation,
it could be tight thigh muscles that impinge range of motion, it could
be hip socket issues, it could be heel pain (plantar fasciitis)that
makes you limp ... if one piece is screwed up then the knee takes the grief.

I don't know who the right person is to see about this. My Mom's a
neuromuscular massage therapist and she's always harping at me about
alignment. A chiropractor might be helpful. There's some mythical
perfect sports therapist that I've never seen in real life that people
like - a physiotherapist I think it's called. An orthopedist will want
to operate.

My feeling about all this is that God heals and doctors send the bills.
Figure it out for yourself. And buy some new running shoes.

You are such a wise person Wendy Marsden.

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been lifting again after a long layoff. I'm 43, started lifting
in earnest again at 40 after ignoring it since High School. My typical
routine is:

1. Squats
2. Good Mornings
3. Dumb-bell bench press
4. Seated row or lat pulldowns
5. Calf Raises
6. Arnold DB presses

Usually 3 sets of each, occasionally supplemented (if I'm not totally
whupped) by more targeted work like skullcrushers, bicep curls, quad
extensions, etc. (I have a lot of trouble with stamina with a full
workout - though I take courage from a quote I've heard "If you spend
more than an hour in the gym you're making friends, not progress" -
but I digress)

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.

What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Looking for a little info. Thanks as always.

Okay, I'll play armchair Physical Therapist...mild lateral spinal curvature
is really common. Probably more the rule than the exeption. I doubt this is
the root of the problem.

Maybe a patellar tracking issue. If your VMO is comparatively weak, your
kneecap might not track properly during leg extension.

Maybe change things around for awhile - subs. front squats for back squats,
SLDL for GM, etc. see if it helps. One exercise that _might_ help you
strengthen / learn to recruit your VMO is leg extension, but only the last
20* of the movement.

That said, you do realize exactly what a usenet diagnosis is worth, don't
you?

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been lifting again after a long layoff. I'm 43, started lifting
in earnest again at 40 after ignoring it since High School. My typical
routine is:

1. Squats
2. Good Mornings
3. Dumb-bell bench press
4. Seated row or lat pulldowns
5. Calf Raises
6. Arnold DB presses

Usually 3 sets of each, occasionally supplemented (if I'm not totally
whupped) by more targeted work like skullcrushers, bicep curls, quad
extensions, etc. (I have a lot of trouble with stamina with a full
workout - though I take courage from a quote I've heard "If you spend
more than an hour in the gym you're making friends, not progress" -
but I digress)

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.

What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?

You've got a few possibilities here. Do you knees properly track your
feet when you squat? You might also play around with different kinds of
calf raises, e.g., if you usually do them seated, try them standing or
vice versa.

Quoted message said:

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Locking your knees at the top of a GM should not be a problem, and if
you're not doing that now, you might try doing that to see if it helps.
Have you tried high-rep bodyweight movements that provide full ROM for
your knees? Even just laying on your back and doing pretend bicyling
for, say, 100 reps can be great for your knees. (Lead the motion with
your heel and go for complete extension of the knee.) Hindu squats
(bodyweight, come up on the balls of the feet at the bottom, flat foot
at the top) can also be good although they're harder on the knees
initially than the pretend cycling and ought to be worked into
gradually. Generally speaking, joint health seems to be achieved
through full ROM with no added resistance and usually for a decent
number of reps as well. IOW, if you're not doing any work targeted at
joint health, just lifting weights, you might try adding joint
health-focused work to your program, usually in your warmup before
lifting.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Looking for a little info. Thanks as always.

BLink

Brian Link wrote:

....

Quoted message said:

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.

What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Make sure your knee(s) don't move inward during squats.
Also, see if you're shifting more weight to right leg.

Jeff Finlayson said:

Brian Link wrote:

....

Quoted message said:

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.
What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?
I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Make sure your knee(s) don't move inward during squats.
Also, see if you're shifting more weight to right leg.

Forgot something. With a wide stance squat, you need to get your
knees out as wide as the feet.

nah said:

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been lifting again after a long layoff. I'm 43, started lifting
in earnest again at 40 after ignoring it since High School. My typical
routine is:

1. Squats
2. Good Mornings
3. Dumb-bell bench press
4. Seated row or lat pulldowns
5. Calf Raises
6. Arnold DB presses

Usually 3 sets of each, occasionally supplemented (if I'm not totally
whupped) by more targeted work like skullcrushers, bicep curls, quad
extensions, etc. (I have a lot of trouble with stamina with a full
workout - though I take courage from a quote I've heard "If you spend
more than an hour in the gym you're making friends, not progress" -
but I digress)

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.

What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Looking for a little info. Thanks as always.

Okay, I'll play armchair Physical Therapist...mild lateral spinal curvature
is really common. Probably more the rule than the exeption. I doubt this is
the root of the problem.

Maybe a patellar tracking issue. If your VMO is comparatively weak, your
kneecap might not track properly during leg extension.

Maybe change things around for awhile - subs. front squats for back squats,
SLDL for GM, etc. see if it helps. One exercise that _might_ help you
strengthen / learn to recruit your VMO is leg extension, but only the last
20* of the movement.

That said, you do realize exactly what a usenet diagnosis is worth, don't
you?

It provides keywords I can use on PubMed or Google.. =)

BLink

Jeff Finlayson said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

Brian Link wrote:

....

Quoted message said:

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.
What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?
I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Make sure your knee(s) don't move inward during squats.
Also, see if you're shifting more weight to right leg.

Forgot something. With a wide stance squat, you need to get your
knees out as wide as the feet.

I think I'm doing that - but my knees definitely move during the lift,
and not uniformly.

From my old Rolfing work I recall that the body reflexively
accomodates weakness or injury. I prolly need a decent trainer to
watch me - and unfortunately the Trainer-Tots at my gym don't really
qualify =(.

Mebbe I need to hang out with Hanson and his friends. Would suck to be
a weak old fart with a bunch of powerlifters, but I bet they'd be able
to spot technique issues pretty quickly.

BLink

nah said:

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been lifting again after a long layoff. I'm 43, started lifting
in earnest again at 40 after ignoring it since High School. My typical
routine is:

1. Squats
2. Good Mornings
3. Dumb-bell bench press
4. Seated row or lat pulldowns
5. Calf Raises
6. Arnold DB presses

Usually 3 sets of each, occasionally supplemented (if I'm not totally
whupped) by more targeted work like skullcrushers, bicep curls, quad
extensions, etc. (I have a lot of trouble with stamina with a full
workout - though I take courage from a quote I've heard "If you spend
more than an hour in the gym you're making friends, not progress" -
but I digress)

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
pain in my right knee.

What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Looking for a little info. Thanks as always.

Okay, I'll play armchair Physical Therapist...mild lateral spinal curvature
is really common. Probably more the rule than the exeption. I doubt this is
the root of the problem.

Maybe a patellar tracking issue. If your VMO is comparatively weak, your
kneecap might not track properly during leg extension.

Maybe change things around for awhile - subs. front squats for back squats,
SLDL for GM, etc. see if it helps. One exercise that _might_ help you
strengthen / learn to recruit your VMO is leg extension, but only the last
20* of the movement.

That said, you do realize exactly what a usenet diagnosis is worth, don't
you?

John wash, back when he used to visit this place, used to recommend
narrow stance squats for patellar tracking issues. I have used that
successfully over the years when I develop pain in my knee. if
nothing else it is certainly worth a try for unexplained knee pain.

--
Is this thing on?

"Joe Humble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

nah said:

"Brian Link" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been lifting again after a long layoff. I'm 43, started lifting
in earnest again at 40 after ignoring it since High School. My
typical
routine is:

1. Squats
2. Good Mornings
3. Dumb-bell bench press
4. Seated row or lat pulldowns
5. Calf Raises
6. Arnold DB presses

Usually 3 sets of each, occasionally supplemented (if I'm not
totally
whupped) by more targeted work like skullcrushers, bicep curls, quad
extensions, etc. (I have a lot of trouble with stamina with a full
workout - though I take courage from a quote I've heard "If you
spend
more than an hour in the gym you're making friends, not progress" -
but I digress)

I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get
some
pain in my right knee.

What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue
with
my lifting.

My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter
evaluate
me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
with my knees before.

Looking for a little info. Thanks as always.

Okay, I'll play armchair Physical Therapist...mild lateral spinal
curvature
is really common. Probably more the rule than the exeption. I doubt
this is
the root of the problem.

Maybe a patellar tracking issue. If your VMO is comparatively weak,
your
kneecap might not track properly during leg extension.

Maybe change things around for awhile - subs. front squats for back
squats,
SLDL for GM, etc. see if it helps. One exercise that _might_ help you
strengthen / learn to recruit your VMO is leg extension, but only the
last
20* of the movement.

That said, you do realize exactly what a usenet diagnosis is worth,
don't
you?

John wash, back when he used to visit this place, used to recommend
narrow stance squats for patellar tracking issues. I have used that
successfully over the years when I develop pain in my knee. if
nothing else it is certainly worth a try for unexplained knee pain.

I don't think narrow stance by itself is sufficient - it has to be
narrow stance with proper knee tracking of the foot. I can pretty
easily squat narrow and still have my knees bow in if I don't turn my
feet out, although I'll grant that it's easier, overall, to get it right
with a narrow stance. There's no substitute for someone watching you
squat to see how your knees are tracking, IMHO. I try to get my wife to
do this for me once every few months or any time my knees start to
bother me. It's also worth mentioning that life isn't often perfectly
symmetrical - I have to turn my right foot out slightly more than my
left to get my knees to both track properly.

Just my two-cents-worth.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Brian Link said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

Brian Link wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
>pain in my right knee.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
>me,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Make sure your knee(s) don't move inward during squats.
Also, see if you're shifting more weight to right leg.

Forgot something. With a wide stance squat, you need to get your
knees out as wide as the feet [specifically the heels].

Quoted message said:

I think I'm doing that - but my knees definitely move during the lift,
and not uniformly.

That's OK if they move out.

Quoted message said:

From my old Rolfing work I recall that the body reflexively
accomodates weakness or injury. I prolly need a decent trainer to
watch me - and unfortunately the Trainer-Tots at my gym don't really
qualify =(.

You should try adding step-ups. They are good for the knees, tracking
issues and such. Start out with bodyweight on a short 'step'.

Quoted message said:

Mebbe I need to hang out with Hanson and his friends. Would suck to be
a weak old fart with a bunch of powerlifters, but I bet they'd be able
to spot technique issues pretty quickly.
BLink

Give that a try. I'm sure they wouldn't mind helping, especially since
it could help with your knee pain.

"Jeff Finlayson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Give that a try. I'm sure they wouldn't mind helping,

If the talk turns to politics, however, Brian may end up in a shallow grave
somewhere outside Mankato.

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:59:36 -0500, Brian Link <[email hidden]> wrote
in misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

Brian Link wrote:

....
> I lift without incident, but often, several hours later, I'll get some
> pain in my right knee.
> What should I look out for with knee pain? What's the difference
> between a torn meniscus and arthritis? What's "normal" knee pain?
> I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
> my lifting.
>
> My squats are sumo-style and quite low. Haven't had a lifter evaluate
> me, but from the mirror it seems like I break parallel. I never lock
> my knees with Good Mornings or Calf Raises. I've never had problems
> with my knees before.

Make sure your knee(s) don't move inward during squats.
Also, see if you're shifting more weight to right leg.

Forgot something. With a wide stance squat, you need to get your
knees out as wide as the feet.

I think I'm doing that - but my knees definitely move during the lift,
and not uniformly.

From my old Rolfing work I recall that the body reflexively
accomodates weakness or injury. I prolly need a decent trainer to
watch me - and unfortunately the Trainer-Tots at my gym don't really
qualify =(.

Mebbe I need to hang out with Hanson and his friends. Would suck to be
a weak old fart with a bunch of powerlifters, but I bet they'd be able
to spot technique issues pretty quickly.

Hmmm. I kinda just skipped over this thread. Anywho, yes, come join
us. We are experts at technique. Well, some of us are and some of us
think we are. Oh, and, some of us just lift and get feedback.

We are there every MWF starting around 5:00 PM. That's Ultimate
Fitness in Hudson, in case you didn't know.

In article said:

Brian Link said:

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

I don't know about it being an issue with your lifting, but I bet it's
an issue with the rest of your life.

I'm your age, similar history, and IIRC you used to be pretty fat at one
point, too, right?

Knees take a lot of [censored] when you're out of alignment for something. It
could be ankle flexibility is poor, it could be over or under pronation,
it could be tight thigh muscles that impinge range of motion, it could
be hip socket issues, it could be heel pain (plantar fasciitis)that
makes you limp ... if one piece is screwed up then the knee takes the grief.

I don't know who the right person is to see about this. My Mom's a
neuromuscular massage therapist and she's always harping at me about
alignment. A chiropractor might be helpful. There's some mythical
perfect sports therapist that I've never seen in real life that people
like - a physiotherapist I think it's called. An orthopedist will want
to operate.

My feeling about all this is that God heals and doctors send the bills.
Figure it out for yourself. And buy some new running shoes.

Dally

No scoliosis here, but I worked for a telco for 17 years and was always
smacking my knees on the cement floor when I had to change out equipment neer
the floor and had problems with them after I left.

Most people tell you not to go past 90° on squats for fear of knee
injury but I've read others who have improved their knees by doing exactly
that.

I started going past 90° very slowly, just to the point where I could
feel the tendons tensing up but not to the point where they hurt. Over time
I could go deeper without pain and my knees did get much better to the point
where they don't bother me anymore.

Squats might not be what you want to do with scoliosis though, might
throw your spine even more out of whack.

--
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Internet access with real toll-free human help as low as $9.00 / month!
See our web site: http://www.eskimo.com/ (206) 812-0051 or (800) 246-6874.

(Nanook) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have mild scoliosis, and am wondering whether this is an issue with
my lifting.

Just see a chiropractor, and deal with the scoliosis, then it won't be
an issue.