Klein vs. Trek

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004

Trek

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5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both

will

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be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and

both

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use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.

Which bike would you choose?

Thanks in advance, Lester
PS: Some specs below:

The one that fits.

Mike

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:P5Kcb.16098$vj2.9725@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004

Trek

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and

both

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.

Which bike would you choose?

Thanks in advance, Lester
PS: Some specs below:

The one that fits.

Mike

Can't they both be made to fit?

Lester

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The one that fits.

Mike

Can't they both be made to fit?

Lester

He is right, fit is first. They both are just as likely to be fit correctly. They are both
excellent, but as much as I love Klein, I think the Trek makes a slightly better bike, especially
for an "only bike", or a first bike. (BTW, get a frame with Campagnolo and your own choice of
wheels. It will cost less in the long run and will weigh less, if that is important and I assume it
is if you looked at those 2 bikes).

Anyhow, there are just a few niggling issues with the Klein compared to the Trek. The Trek is more
tolerant to impact damage (crashes or accidents during transport and storage). The aluminum is so
thin in spots, it was a constantly a concern when putting on racks, etc. The plastic frame on the
Trek is a lot more durable in those situations and I think makes an excellent work horse race bike.
If there are no sponsorship considerations and you can "live without" aluminum (some claim they
can't) then I think you will be happier in the long run with the Trek. The only case that would not
be true would be if you really fell in love with the Klein paint and finish, which is quite a bit
nicer than the Trek. (This may no longer be true now that Trek produces them). You may have a
favorite paint scheme and if you are willing to be careful with ding exposure and the quirky
drop-outs, then it is still a great bike. Just take it for a test ride and change the rear wheel a
bunch of times to be sure you can deal with it.

Have fun. They are both great frames. I once was in a spot of bother when I had to replace a stolen
5 year old Klein and I ended up opting with the Trek simply because it had Campy (I could not wait
for a build) and discovered the positive attributes as discussed. I also found the comfort to
stiffness ration better but that brings tire size, pressure and wheels in to play.

Lester Long said:

My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004 Trek 5200 or 2004 Klein
Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both will be available end of October. Both use
Shimano Ultegra components, and both use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.

Which bike would you choose?

Thanks in advance, Lester
PS: Some specs below:

Best to Hannah!

The replies about fit are correct. The tough part is the criteria used for setup. I wanted
to look like Lemond on the bike. This required a really stretched out position on the bike.
My arms are long relative to my legs, so (since I had a stock frame) I needed a long stem.
This gave me a decent setup, but put my weight relatively far forward, which wasn't the best
for fast downhills. What I needed was a frame with a longer top tube, but I didn't care
enough to get a custom frame. Anyhow, I never got to be Lemond. But the really stretched out
position probably contributed to the neck problems I have now. Just make sure she's set up
comfortably on whatever she chooses. She should also be prepared to tweak the setup
periodically as she gets more experienced and learns what works for her.

Steve

Quoted message said:

KLEIN

sizes 49cm, 52cm, 54cm, 56cm, 58cm, 61cm color Silver Storm frame material Gradient ZR9000
w/Carbon Wishbone msrp (usd) $2,619.99 (Double) | $2,649.99 (Triple) fork Klein Aeros 110GSM
Carbon headset Klein Airheadset rear shock N/A crankset Ultegra 53/39 bottom bracket Shimano
105 deraileurs (f/r) Shimano Ultegra shifters Shimano Ultegra STI chain Shimano HG-93 wheel
system Bontrager Race Lite Road tires Bontrager Race X-Lite 700x23C cassette Shimano
Ultegra, 12-25, 9 speed brakes Shimano Ultegra brake levers Shimano Ultegra STI handlebars
Bontrager Flat-top Race Lite road stem Race Lite 31.8 Stem seatpost Race 5mm-offset seatpost
31.6 x 250 saddle San Marco Era Luxe, CrMo/leather grips/tape Bontrager Gel Tape

TREK FRAME OCLV 120 Carbon

FORK Bontrager Race Lite

WHEELS Bontrager Race Lite

DRIVETRAIN: crankset Shimano Ultegra 53/39 or 52/42/30 rear derailleur Shimano Ultegra

SIZES 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 60, 62cm

COLORS Nude Carbon, Nude Pearl/Baja Blue (Team)

Advertised Retail $2,749.99*

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:P5Kcb.16098$vj2.9725@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004

Trek

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and

both

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.

Which bike would you choose?

Thanks in advance, Lester
PS: Some specs below:

The one that fits.

Mike

Can't they both be made to fit?

Lester

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on a lot of factors.

Does she have a road bike she is riding now? If so, does she like the way it rides? If not, what
would she change about the way it rides?

This is just the start of what you should be asking your wife before purchasing a new bike. You can
get a lot of opinions on this newsgroup, but the only one that matters is the one your wife has
after spending countless hours in the saddle riding.

You can force fit almost any bike to make it work, but that doesn't represent the best solution.

If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people? If so, the geometry is unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the one you find more comfortable.

"Corey Green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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You can force fit almost any bike to make it work, but that doesn't represent the best solution.

Speaking of fit, don't forget to look at the WSD models from Trek (that might be the wrong acronym,
because I think it is "Women's Specific Fit" but maybe it is "Dimensions"😉 that are not available
from Klein. If these are a better fit, then that is a definite advantage for the Treks. BUT, I do
not know if the OCLV WSDs are out yet so check with your dealer about what is available if your wife
will be better served by those sizes.

Mike S. said:

Quoted message said:

The one that fits.

Lester Long said:

Can't they both be made to fit?

The Trek geometry has a rather long top tube so if your body geometry includes a short torso and
long legs then the Trek might not be the best bet.

patch70 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people? If so, the geometry is
unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the one you find more comfortable.

Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer top-tube, more seattube
setback, to accomodate the longer femur that professional racers tend to have.

"RK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

patch70 <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people? If so, the geometry is
unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the one you find more comfortable.

Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer top-tube, more seattube
setback, to accomodate the longer femur that professional racers tend to have.

This is mostly true. The only time it was not true was when the Lemond brand was purchased without
any real design properties. IOW, they wanted the name and the rest would come later, so they slapped
some Lemond decals on existing Trek models but measured them c-t while Trek normally measures c-c.
This made it look like the Lemond bike were "really long for the *femur*" (get over it Greg) and it
worked from a marketing standpoint. In defense of Trek, they did have Greg pen some designs (or at
least have the designers use some of his published design preferences) and now they do have
exclusive geometry and design AFAIK.

With regard to Klein, this company was purchased several years ago and Gary Klein has thus far been
able to maintain every aspect of his design uniqueness. This says good things about both Trek and
Klein, IMO.

Still, Klein and Trek may use slightly different approaches, but they are going after the same
market do their fit is not going to be terribly different from one another, but the larger scale of
the Trek line does allow the "WSF" models, which AFAIK are not available with Klein.

This thread is taking a *.tech flavor, so...I suggest if it continues along these lines it should be
cross-posted and \ or moved over. (Although I don't care, since many tech issues are race related,
so whatever you dudes want).

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lester Long said:

My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004

Trek

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and

both

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.

Which bike would you choose?

Thanks in advance, Lester
PS: Some specs below:

Best to Hannah!

Thanks Steve! I'm *kinda* her coach, given my brief cycling career 15 years ago, and my weighlifting
experience. She really loves the sport, so I'm supportive, despite the fact that she can kick my
butt around Central Park!

Quoted message said:

The replies about fit are correct. The tough part is the criteria used for setup. I wanted to look
like Lemond on the bike. This required a really stretched out position on the bike. My arms are
long relative to my legs, so (since I had a stock frame) I needed a long stem. This gave me a
decent setup, but put my weight relatively far forward, which wasn't the best for fast downhills.
What I needed was a frame with a longer top tube, but I didn't care enough to get a custom frame.
Anyhow, I never got to be Lemond. But the really stretched out position probably contributed to
the neck problems I have now. Just make sure she's set up comfortably on whatever she chooses. She
should also be prepared to tweak the setup periodically as she gets more experienced and learns
what works for her.

Steve

There's definitely a continuum between the perfect racing bike, and being comfortable. The problem
is it seems to take a few dozen hours of riding before you find where the like is on that continuum.

Good to hear from you!

Regards, Lester

"Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"RK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

patch70 <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people?

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so, the geometry is unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you find more comfortable.

Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer top-tube, more seattube
setback, to accomodate the longer femur that professional racers tend to have.

This is mostly true. The only time it was not true was when the Lemond

brand

Quoted message said:

was purchased without any real design properties. IOW, they wanted the

name

Quoted message said:

and the rest would come later, so they slapped some Lemond decals on existing Trek models but
measured them c-t while Trek normally measures

c-c.

Quoted message said:

This made it look like the Lemond bike were "really long for the *femur*" (get over it Greg) and
it worked from a marketing standpoint. In defense

of

Quoted message said:

Trek, they did have Greg pen some designs (or at least have the designers use some of his
published design preferences) and now they do have

exclusive

Quoted message said:

geometry and design AFAIK.

With regard to Klein, this company was purchased several years ago and

Gary

Quoted message said:

Klein has thus far been able to maintain every aspect of his design uniqueness. This says good
things about both Trek and Klein, IMO.

Still, Klein and Trek may use slightly different approaches, but they are going after the same
market do their fit is not going to be terribly different from one another, but the larger scale
of the Trek line does

allow

Quoted message said:

the "WSF" models, which AFAIK are not available with Klein.

This thread is taking a *.tech flavor, so...I suggest if it continues

along

Quoted message said:

these lines it should be cross-posted and \ or moved over. (Although I

don't

Quoted message said:

care, since many tech issues are race related, so whatever you dudes

want).

Thanks for all the great replies to my thread!

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike. The WSF models are
all too small for her, and thus she's confined to the men's models. I guess my question is a
difficult one to answer, since both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards, Lester

Lester Long said:

is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike.

That sounds about right, but I think 58cm may be a better fit because of a slightly shorter top tube
(generally, women have relatively longer legs). The height isn't *that* much of an issue.

Quoted message said:

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike. The WSF models
are all too small for her, and thus she's confined

to

Quoted message said:

the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer, since both bikes are targeted
to the same market.

Regards, Lester

Lester: The Klein & TREK product ride very differently; subtle changes in geometry product
not-so-subtle changes in ride. With a Klein she'd go for a 58cm (the 61cm would have too-long a top
tube), while TREK it very well might be a 60cm. Keep in mind that a 60cm TREK has a slightly-shorter
top tube than a 58cm Klein (comparing a 60cm 2300 to a 58cm Klein Aura in this case)... yet the
Klein has a slightly-longer wheelbase. There are a number of little things that add up to a
significantly different ride. One isn't really better than the other, with the exception of fit
considerations, and Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate, since
there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.

You are correct that there are no WSD (Women Specific Design) bikes in a large enough size for her;
they generally fit up to about 5'7" or so.

Your best bet is to have her ride each bike, making sure they're set up similarly. It wouldn't be a
fair comparison to test-ride a Klein with a super-short stem and a TREK with a super-long one, and
vice versa. Cockpit dimensions (distance from seat to bars, drop in height from seat to bars,
distance from pedals to seat and setback of seat from bottom bracket) should all be set the same on
each bike. That way she'll be evaluating the bike, not some random aspect of fit. And it will also
show if one bike simply can't quite be made to fit right.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a

60cm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined

to

Quoted message said:

the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer,

since

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards, Lester

Lester: The Klein & TREK product ride very differently; subtle changes in geometry product
not-so-subtle changes in ride. With a Klein she'd go for

a

Quoted message said:

58cm (the 61cm would have too-long a top tube), while TREK it very well might be a 60cm. Keep in
mind that a 60cm TREK has a slightly-shorter top tube than a 58cm Klein (comparing a 60cm 2300 to
a 58cm Klein Aura in this case)... yet the Klein has a slightly-longer wheelbase. There are a

number

Quoted message said:

of little things that add up to a significantly different ride. One isn't really better than the
other, with the exception of fit considerations,

and

Quoted message said:

Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,

since

Quoted message said:

there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.

You are correct that there are no WSD (Women Specific Design) bikes in a large enough size for
her; they generally fit up to about 5'7" or so.

Your best bet is to have her ride each bike, making sure they're set up similarly. It wouldn't be
a fair comparison to test-ride a Klein with a super-short stem and a TREK with a super-long one,
and vice versa.

Cockpit

Quoted message said:

dimensions (distance from seat to bars, drop in height from seat to bars, distance from pedals to
seat and setback of seat from bottom bracket)

should

Quoted message said:

all be set the same on each bike. That way she'll be evaluating the bike, not some random aspect
of fit. And it will also show if one bike simply can't quite be made to fit right.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

I agree with Mike and would add that the Klein will be more stable. This also sometimes fills the
needs of women that want rock solid linear stability at all speeds.

The Trek is also good in these aspects of handling and someone that wants stable but quicker
response to input may prefer the Trek.

This is really a tough choice. For all of the differences, these two bikes IMO are after almost
the same market and I think they (Trek) expect the material preference and brand issues to be the
biggest differentiators (is that a word or did I make that up?). In spite of originating from
very different approaches, these two bike over time have been honed to evolve in to almost the
same niche.

It really may come down to ride preference, appearance, or concerns over durability. I think they
both have lifetime frame warranties (take note Justin), is that correct Mike?

I have a Trek 5200 today and love it. I will never buy another roadbike that is not made in Carbon.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Lester Long said:

Thanks for all the great replies to my thread!

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike. The WSF models
are all too small for her, and thus she's confined to the men's models. I guess my question is a
difficult one to answer, since both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards, Lester

I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam and I ordered the 60cm 5200. The guy at the store mentioned that Treks
tend to fit smaller than other bikes. I hope that the 60cm is right for me. I test drove a 58cm and
that was too small, and I tried out a 61cm bike (not a Trek, as they didn't have any that large),
and it felt too big.

J. Spaceman

Quoted message said:

Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,

since

Quoted message said:

there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.

Maybe for large women. However, it does not apply to the small Kleins. My wife rides a Quantum 48cm
and an xs Adroit. She loves both. Only major drawback is the integrated headset the Kleins came with
for years. When they turn bad it is not easy to service them. Not even the Klein dealers have parts
in stock : (

Per

"Per Löwdin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,

since

Quoted message said:

there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.

Maybe for large women. However, it does not apply to the small Kleins. My wife rides a Quantum
48cm and an xs Adroit. She loves both.

I know a couple of pixie gals who love their Kleins too.

Quoted message said:

Only major drawback is the integrated headset the Kleins came with for years. When they turn bad
it is not easy to service them. Not even the Klein dealers have parts in stock : (

Those suck. Unfortunately, they're becoming more prevalent. However, you should be able to get a
retrofit kit, to install a standard headset.

Matt O.