Kitchen Disaster Semi-Averted

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In theory, I might be able to restore operation
of the hot water tap with the new configuration,
but I'm going to leave well enough alone for now.
I've lived without hot water in the kitchen before,
and I'll do that for now, rather than taking
a chance on creating a problem I can't fix.
I'm grateful just to have cut off the hot water
for now. I can worry about replacing the whole
fixture some other time.

Ingenuity works every time. While replacing the fixture, put a couple of
shut off laves in for the bathroom too. Eventual you'll need them.

Mark Thorson said:

The hot water faucet in the kitchen sink has been
leaking, and I tried putting in a new washer.
That didn't work. Then I tried reaming the seat.
I have the tool for this, and I've done it a
couple times before. Worked like a charm each
time.

My dishwasher tap was leaking into the cupboard unbeknownst to me -
ended up warping the shelving and the new clip-lock flooring we
installed 2 years ago. (The cupboard next to the dw is very narrow and
houses things I seldom use, yeh I know, should probably throw them
out...but... one day I'll need them)
We are in the process of redesigning our kitchen (yay!!!) so it's no
big drama - floor was going to have to go as well.

But the point is a Scots lady I know had the same problem. Tap under
her sink leaked and swelled up her chipboard/melamine shelving. (Don't
ask me how she missed the seepage)
What would a canny Scot do in this situation?
Call her insurance company and get a brand new kitchen of course.
But wait, there's more.
AND a new floor!
But wait, there's more.
AND new carpeting throughout her hallway, lounge, dining as the water
damage had leaked over a period of weeks and seeped behind the wall
and into her underlay & carpet.

Anyone contemplating refurbishing their kitchen & flooring might want
to take notes!!
LOL

LadyJane
--
"Never trust a skinny cook!"
but pay close attention to the advice of a 'canny Scot'

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The hot water faucet in the kitchen sink has been
leaking, and I tried putting in a new washer.
That didn't work. Then I tried reaming the seat.
I have the tool for this, and I've done it a
couple times before. Worked like a charm each
time.

Not this time. At first, I thought I just did
a sloppy job, so I reamed it again. And again.
It just seemed to get worse each time. Now a
dribbling leak had become a steady stream.

Hmmm . . . I can't shut off the supply to the
hot water tap without shutting off the supply
to the whole house, because there aren't shutoff
valves under the sink for the faucets. (This
is a really old house with ridiculous plumbing.)

I examined the valve stem, and it was at its
limit when I tried to shut off the water.
Hmmm . . . looks like I reamed the seat too
deep. This could be a serious problem.

I can't go to bed with this much hot water
running in the sink. After I take my shower,
I may have to go outside to shut off the water
at the main valve. Not a good solution.
What to do, what to do?

Ah! I could put _two_ washers in the valve
stem to build up the height I need to close
the gap to the valve seat, if the center bolt
in the valve stem is long enough for two
washers. It is! After futzing with this for
about two hours, and facing up to the fact that
I may have created an unfixable disaster, I've
finally stopped the leak! Hooray!!!

In theory, I might be able to restore operation
of the hot water tap with the new configuration,
but I'm going to leave well enough alone for now.
I've lived without hot water in the kitchen before,
and I'll do that for now, rather than taking
a chance on creating a problem I can't fix.
I'm grateful just to have cut off the hot water
for now. I can worry about replacing the whole
fixture some other time. I can go to bed tonight
without shutting off the water to the whole house.
Sometimes the smallest things can be the most
important.

How about removing the valve seat, using the special (and inexpensive) tool
for that purpose, taking the seat to a real plumbing store, and getting a
replacement? Total cost will be under ten bucks.

JoeSpareBedroom said:

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The hot water faucet in the kitchen sink has been
leaking, and I tried putting in a new washer.
That didn't work.  Then I tried reaming the seat.
I have the tool for this, and I've done it a
couple times before.  Worked like a charm each
time.

Quoted message said:

Not this time.  At first, I thought I just did
a sloppy job, so I reamed it again.  And again.
It just seemed to get worse each time.  Now a
dribbling leak had become a steady stream.

Quoted message said:

Hmmm . . . I can't shut off the supply to the
hot water tap without shutting off the supply
to the whole house, because there aren't shutoff
valves under the sink for the faucets.  (This
is a really old house with ridiculous plumbing.)

Quoted message said:

I examined the valve stem, and it was at its
limit when I tried to shut off the water.
Hmmm . . . looks like I reamed the seat too
deep.  This could be a serious problem.

Quoted message said:

I can't go to bed with this much hot water
running in the sink.  After I take my shower,
I may have to go outside to shut off the water
at the main valve. Not a good solution.
What to do, what to do?

Quoted message said:

Ah!  I could put _two_ washers in the valve
stem to build up the height I need to close
the gap to the valve seat, if the center bolt
in the valve stem is long enough for two
washers.  It is!  After futzing with this for
about two hours, and facing up to the fact that
I may have created an unfixable disaster, I've
finally stopped the leak! Hooray!!!

Quoted message said:

In theory, I might be able to restore operation
of the hot water tap with the new configuration,
but I'm going to leave well enough alone for now.
I've lived without hot water in the kitchen before,
and I'll do that for now, rather than taking
a chance on creating a problem I can't fix.
I'm grateful just to have cut off the hot water
for now.  I can worry about replacing the whole
fixture some other time.  I can go to bed tonight
without shutting off the water to the whole house.
Sometimes the smallest things can be the most
important.

How about removing the valve seat, using the special (and inexpensive) tool
for that purpose, taking the seat to a real plumbing store, and getting a
replacement? Total cost will be under ten bucks.

Some valve seats have a square hole, others a hex hole, easily
unscrewed with two flat blade screw drivers used in tandem or the hex
hole with an allen wrench. Replacement seats are usually sold in
pairs and should cost under a buck. Personally I would replace the
entire faucet with a modern single lever one... constantly fiddling
with washers, valve seats, valve stems, and bonnet gland packings is a
pain.

Sheldon

JoeSpareBedroom said:

How about removing the valve seat, using the special (and inexpensive)
tool for that purpose, taking the seat to a real plumbing store, and
getting a replacement? Total cost will be under ten bucks.

The problem is sometimes the seats are integral, not removable. Not being
able to see exactly what was going on in my laundry tub faucet, I tried to
remove the seat with the special tool. Unfortunately it was permanent. The
"real" plumbing store indicated to me that the brand of faucet only came
with removable seats. Not true. The one I had was original to the house, and
I'm sure the builder bought a few hundred to these cheapie "builders model"
faucets for the houses in this development.

I replaced it with a plastic replacement faucet that cost me under $20 that
seems to be working quite well after 8 years. While replacing the old
faucet, I discovered it was "hard soldered" onto the supply pipes, not with
removable fittings. I ended up tearing out the whole piping arrangement
including the cutoff valves and replacing it with more modern components.
The original installation was from 1963.

The kitchen faucet was also hard soldered onto the supply piping, but when I
replaced that faucet, I hard soldered the new one in the same way, as there
was much more room to work in under the kitchen sink than under the laundry
tub.

--
wff_ng_7 (at) verizon (dot) net

Mark Thorson said:

In theory, I might be able to restore operation
of the hot water tap with the new configuration,
but I'm going to leave well enough alone for now.
I've lived without hot water in the kitchen before,
and I'll do that for now, rather than taking
a chance on creating a problem I can't fix.
I'm grateful just to have cut off the hot water
for now. I can worry about replacing the whole
fixture some other time. I can go to bed tonight
without shutting off the water to the whole house.
Sometimes the smallest things can be the most
important.

Unsolicited advice: Don't wait too long. Major disasters always seem
to happen at the most inconvenient times, like when you are prepping for
a major dinner, party, etc. (and when the plumbing shops are closed.)

gloria p

LadyJane said:

But the point is a Scots lady I know had the same problem. Tap under
her sink leaked and swelled up her chipboard/melamine shelving. (Don't
ask me how she missed the seepage)
What would a canny Scot do in this situation?
Call her insurance company and get a brand new kitchen of course.
But wait, there's more.
AND a new floor!
But wait, there's more.
AND new carpeting throughout her hallway, lounge, dining as the water
damage had leaked over a period of weeks and seeped behind the wall
and into her underlay & carpet.

Anyone contemplating refurbishing their kitchen & flooring might want
to take notes!!
LOL

Was she ever able to get home insurance again? If she was in the U.S.
it may have been difficult if not impossible.

gloria p

I suspected part of the problem could be that
the valve stem was worn. I bought a new one
today (a little over $2), and that fixed it!
I've got hot water again! And no leak!

I used to change the stem every time I cracked
open the faucet. I figured that the cost was
almost nothing compared to the value of my
time. But at some point I bought a box of
washers, and I had been replacing the washers
every time. It would have made more sense
to buy some extra valve stems.

I looked inside the valve seat, and I'm not
sure it's removable. There are two tiny notches
in it which could be for removing it with a
screwdriver, but they're so small and shallow
that I doubt it.

Mark Thorson said:

I suspected part of the problem could be that
the valve stem was worn.  I bought a new one
today (a little over $2), and that fixed it!
I've got hot water again!  And no leak!

I used to change the stem every time I cracked
open the faucet.  I figured that the cost was
almost nothing compared to the value of my
time.  But at some point I bought a box of
washers, and I had been replacing the washers
every time.  It would have made more sense
to buy some extra valve stems.

I looked inside the valve seat, and I'm not
sure it's removable.  There are two tiny notches
in it which could be for removing it with a
screwdriver, but they're so small and shallow
that I doubt it.

They all unscrew, I've never seen a valve seat that wasn't removable,
even those made more than 75 years ago were removable, why, because
it's easier to machine a valve with removable seats. Nowadays those
old brass valve seats can usually be replaced with ones made of
Delrin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delrin

I still recommend replacing all old fashioned faucets with modern
washerless types, and always add shut off valves, the best are those
with compression fittings, with stainless steel braid over plastic
tube risers. In 2007 it's hard to believe that some diehards are
still changing washers... tantamount to having a crank start on your
automobile.

Sheldon

Sheldon said:

They all unscrew, I've never seen a valve seat that wasn't removable,
even those made more than 75 years ago were removable, why, because
it's easier to machine a valve with removable seats.

They definitely come with integral nonremovable seats, though this is
uncommon. Making a removable seat requires machining a thread into the
faucet body, so there's hardly a savings there. Plus there's the valve seat
itself, which also requires machining a thread on it.

In a previous post, I described a nonremovable seat laundry tub faucet I had
to replace. Laundry tub faucets tend to be made very cheaply, since the get
relatively little use and don't have to be attractive.

Here's an extract from Old House Journal (10/2002) mentioning the existence
of nonremovable seats:
--
Under normal use, the washer loses its sealing ability as it ages and needs
to be replaced. If it is neglected, however, water will leak past the
washer, eroding part of the seat, which will then have to be replaced (if it
is the threaded, removable type) or resurfaced (if it is part of the faucet
body).
--

Quoted message said:

In 2007 it's hard to believe that some diehards are
still changing washers... tantamount to having a crank start on your
automobile.

There are many reasons why people don't replace faucets but continue
changing washers. Two of the most common are these:

- Replacing the faucet in a bath or shower requires ripping a wall open to
do it.

- The faucet is an older design for a sink that can't be replaced without
replacing the sink itself. The standard spacings we now have for faucets are
not the same as some sinks of years gone by. My parents house, which was
built in 1952, had faucets where there were two controls for hot and cold
separately mounted at the left and right. In the center was a completely
separate spout. I have never seen replacement faucets for such a
configuration.

--
wff_ng_7 (at) verizon (dot) net

Puester said:

Was she ever able to get home insurance again? If she was in the U.S.
it may have been difficult if not impossible.

gloria p

Yep Gloria - same one she claimed through. Wouldn't be surprised if
her premiums rose though.

LadyJane
--
"Never trust a skinny cook!"