Kinetics Cycle Shop - SON Hub

Slark said:

I've seen Kinetics recommended for SON hubs. Looking at their website, there
is a cost of £45 to build into a wheel - I assume Kinetics will sell rims
and spokes as well? I can't seem to find anything on the website (I know, I
know - I will call tomorrow, but, of course, I want to know now!)

I can't really help there, but I got my SON-hubbed hand-built wheel from
SJS - might be worth looking at them just to compare prices (as long as
you are not one of those people that is ideologically opposed to SJS).

Quoted message said:

Separately, E6S and E6Z laps are often recommened - anybody going to say
don't be silly? (for unlit country roads). I guess I need mounting brackets
separately as well...

I use a Lumotec Oval, which is /adequate/ for unlit country lanes, but
having seen the amount of light given off by other riders using E6/E6Z
combos, I would say they are well worth the cost if you can afford them.

Also worth looking at the Solidlights 1203D, which my some-time riding
companion on the Invicta 400 had on his bike - so I can vouch for the
superb illumination it gives (it swamped my lighting, which was
problematic because his bracket had broken so the light was hanging on
loosely by a cable tie and riding alongside him was like being at a
school disco...)

d.

Slark wrote on 22/10/2006 21:48 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I've seen Kinetics recommended for SON hubs. Looking at their website, there
is a cost of £45 to build into a wheel - I assume Kinetics will sell rims
and spokes as well? I can't seem to find anything on the website (I know, I
know - I will call tomorrow, but, of course, I want to know now!)

Separately, E6S and E6Z laps are often recommened - anybody going to say
don't be silly? (for unlit country roads). I guess I need mounting brackets
separately as well...

If you do go to Kinetics make sure you agree a delivery date and are
able to cancel your order if its not delivered by then. Their concept
of time and responding to "well where is it?" questions appears not to
be good. I know of one person who has been waiting since July for a
relatively minor bit of work on a bike.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

If you do go to Kinetics make sure you agree a delivery date and are
able to cancel your order if its not delivered by then. Their concept
of time and responding to "well where is it?" questions appears not to
be good. I know of one person who has been waiting since July for a
relatively minor bit of work on a bike.

I would second that advice. I personally won't purchase from Kinetics
again given my own experiences.

"LSMike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

If you do go to Kinetics make sure you agree a delivery date and are
able to cancel your order if its not delivered by then. Their concept
of time and responding to "well where is it?" questions appears not to
be good. I know of one person who has been waiting since July for a
relatively minor bit of work on a bike.

I would second that advice. I personally won't purchase from Kinetics
again given my own experiences.

Interesting. Thank you for the advice.

Graham

Tony Raven said:

Slark wrote on 22/10/2006 21:48 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I've seen Kinetics recommended for SON hubs. Looking at their website,
there is a cost of £45 to build into a wheel - I assume Kinetics will
sell rims and spokes as well? I can't seem to find anything on the
website (I know, I know - I will call tomorrow, but, of course, I want
to know now!)

I think that's the additional cost for the materials and labour
together, though do check first (Ben built me the front wheel of my Brom
plus SON and I certainly don't recall thinking the extra for the build
was at all steep). Also, you may wish to change the spec of the
rims/spokes.

Quoted message said:

Kinetics make sure you agree a delivery date and are
able to cancel your order if its not delivered by then. Their concept
of time and responding to "well where is it?" questions appears not to
be good.

This is a fair comment. While Kinetics is my primary source of Things
Bike and I will happily spend there again, Ben tends to have rather too
many projects on the go at a time to be a truly reliable source of mail
order all of the time, and the last couple of things have needed 'phone
reminders (they got here though, and when he says he has them he really
/does/ have them, rather than saying he has them and then ordering them
up like some places seem to do). While he has employed an extra in the
past, I don't know if Rosie is still there and it is primarily the Ben
Cooper Bike Shop rather than a big place with separate folk doing the
post office bit.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Slark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen Kinetics recommended for SON hubs. Looking at their website,
there is a cost of £45 to build into a wheel - I assume Kinetics will sell
rims and spokes as well? I can't seem to find anything on the website (I
know, I know - I will call tomorrow, but, of course, I want to know now!)

Separately, E6S and E6Z laps are often recommened - anybody going to say
don't be silly? (for unlit country roads). I guess I need mounting
brackets separately as well...

Graham

I.'ve just bought an IXON front LED lamp from Kinetics ( which is,
according to the web site, a one man "band" -- which I didn't know when I
placed the order)
It was ordered on 24 September and delivered on Saturday 20 October. And not
a single reply to emails asking for reason for delay.
I shall not use him again.
But the lamp is very good even though I had to pawn my bike to afford to
buy it!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

I'm also thinking of buying a new SON-hubbed wheel. SJS seem to be the only
people out there with a published price for an off-the-shelf wheel, but
don't sell the E6S & E6Z, in fact Kinetics is the only place I can find
them.

Is there anywhere else that sells these?

Also, any thoughts on 32h Vs 36h? I'm tempted towards 36 for a bit of extra
strength, but maybe this is overkill...

One final point, do the SON lights come with the necessary brackets and
cables?

Thanks,

AC

Andy Cox said:

Also, any thoughts on 32h Vs 36h? I'm tempted towards 36 for a bit of
extra strength, but maybe this is overkill...

It'll only weigh you down at extra 4 spokes... but unless it's a heavy
duty application (i.e., tandem) then it's probably more than you need.

Quoted message said:

One final point, do the SON lights come with the necessary brackets and
cables?

Don't know, but as a data point if you change your mind the BuM ones do.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Andy Cox said:

I'm also thinking of buying a new SON-hubbed wheel. SJS seem to be the only
people out there with a published price for an off-the-shelf wheel, but
don't sell the E6S & E6Z, in fact Kinetics is the only place I can find
them.

Is there anywhere else that sells these?

I got mine through http://www.bikeplus.co.uk

Select Wheels on the left hand side, then "Wheels: Schmidt" in the drop
down "Select a type" box.

(I have no connection with bikeplus, just a happy customer).

Fantastic service. Upgraded the rim for free as they didn't have the
one I ordered in stock. Delivered within 5 days. Great wheel build (but
it's only done 400km so far, I'll judge it properly after another
4600km).

Just over 200 quid for a SON in an Ambrosio Excellight wheel with a
Lumotech Oval Plus lamp, all appropriate brackets and cables. Not bad
for SON, lamp, quality rim, spokes, quality wheel build and sundries.

You can choose 32 or 36 spokes, a 2.4W or 3W bulb, and even upgrade the
lamp to another if you so wish.

Quoted message said:

Also, any thoughts on 32h Vs 36h? I'm tempted towards 36 for a bit of extra
strength, but maybe this is overkill...

Depends. I was worried about my lardy self buckling wheels and was told
that 32 holes was fine for me (85kg).

Quoted message said:

One final point, do the SON lights come with the necessary brackets and
cables?

The cable should come with the light, not the SON, same for the
brackets but make sure you're getting one.

The cable is part of the Lumotech Oval Plus itself and it came with
brackets for both caliper and canti brakes.

Very happy with it, no noticable drag whatsoever (light on or off) and
very happy for the vast pools of light for the last couple of hours of
the Golden Tints Audax where I was in complete darkness in deepest
darkest Essex.

-Alex

Andy Cox said:

I'm also thinking of buying a new SON-hubbed wheel. SJS seem to be the
only people out there with a published price for an off-the-shelf wheel,
but don't sell the E6S & E6Z, in fact Kinetics is the only place I can
find them.

Is there anywhere else that sells these?

Also, any thoughts on 32h Vs 36h? I'm tempted towards 36 for a bit of
extra strength, but maybe this is overkill...

One final point, do the SON lights come with the necessary brackets and
cables?

cables yes, standard lights choose 0.5m (with fitted plugs) of longer
(1.2?)without. E6z = 0.9 m with fitted plugs.
brackets: oval plus/senso plus only comes with a forkcrown mounting bracket

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

I don't know if Rosie is still there and it is primarily the Ben
Cooper Bike Shop rather than a big place with separate folk doing the
post office bit.

When I ordered my Grasshopper back in April it took slightly longer to
arrive than I expected ... Largely because I believe Ben went on
Holiday? No problems with that, though it would've been nice to know at
the time! OTOH, when the DToplight Plus decided it only wanted to be a
DToplight (ie: no standlight), after 1.5 months of waiting[1] I bought a
replacement from CycleHeaven.

[1] Ben did say he'd posted 2, and couriered 1 replacements to my
address. Never saw any of them ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Alistair Gunn said:

When I ordered my Grasshopper back in April it took slightly longer to
arrive than I expected ... Largely because I believe Ben went on
Holiday?

There's not really much going on that he can do with orders like that:
they go out to HPVel and much thumb-twiddling is done until a large
crate shows up from Germany some time later, "some time" being /around/
6 weeks, though it seems it's often more.

Quoted message said:

the time! OTOH, when the DToplight Plus decided it only wanted to be a
DToplight (ie: no standlight), after 1.5 months of waiting[1] I bought a
replacement from CycleHeaven.

[1] Ben did say he'd posted 2, and couriered 1 replacements to my
address. Never saw any of them ...

When he's dropped the ball on any of my orders he's immediately admitted
he's dropped the ball and apologised, rather than invent some spurious
lie. On the last one he's dropped the ball again, but as in this case
that means having yet to charge me for £100 worth of lights thus far,
I'm not especially bothered with the delay! (I have the lights...)

In summary Kinetics is not a great mail order destination unless Ben's
got something in stock that basically doesn't seem to exist anywhere
else right then, but that can happen with stuff like weird sized tyres,
dynohubs, Rohloffs etc. But the shop service in person is excellent and
well worth the travel IME.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

When he's dropped the ball on any of my orders he's immediately admitted
he's dropped the ball and apologised, rather than invent some spurious
lie.

Oh he immediately apologised each time I rang up, and I'm quite prepared
to believe that the Royal Mail (and $COURIER) lost them ... It just got
annoying walking to work in the morning!

Quoted message said:

But the shop service in person is excellent and well worth the travel IME.

<nods> That was largely why my Grasshopper order went to him ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Peter Clinch wrote on 24/10/2006 16:19 +0100:

Quoted message said:

In summary Kinetics is not a great mail order destination unless Ben's
got something in stock that basically doesn't seem to exist anywhere
else right then, but that can happen with stuff like weird sized tyres,
dynohubs, Rohloffs etc. But the shop service in person is excellent and
well worth the travel IME.

Perhaps someone that knows him should have a quiet word to advise him of
the reputation he is getting for himself.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Peter Clinch said:

In summary Kinetics is not a great mail order destination unless Ben's
got something in stock that basically doesn't seem to exist anywhere
else right then, but that can happen with stuff like weird sized tyres,
dynohubs, Rohloffs etc.

I mostly use Kinetics for 20" rims and tyres, replacement 3rd Eye
mirrors and Silentrings - parts that /are/ quite hard to find elsewhere.
The only problem I've ever had was with the 20" Marathon Slick that I
ordered in July. The first time I chased by e-mail, Ben replied that
they should be in stock in the next couple of days. The second time I
didn't get a response. When I finally chased by phone (getting through
on the third attempt), I had the tyre in my hands a couple of days later.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"Slark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen Kinetics recommended for SON hubs. Looking at their website,
there is a cost of £45 to build into a wheel - I assume Kinetics will sell
rims and spokes as well? I can't seem to find anything on the website (I
know, I know - I will call tomorrow, but, of course, I want to know now!)

Separately, E6S and E6Z laps are often recommened - anybody going to say
don't be silly? (for unlit country roads). I guess I need mounting
brackets separately as well...

Graham

Spa cycles, http://www.spacycles.co.uk, do Son hubs built into a wheel for
£148.00.

John

Alex said:

very happy for the vast pools of light for the last couple of hours of
the Golden Tints Audax where I was in complete darkness in deepest
darkest Essex.

I know what you mean - first time I used my SON properly, I absolutely
fell in love with it. :-)

d.

davek said:

Alex said:

very happy for the vast pools of light for the last couple of hours
of the Golden Tints Audax where I was in complete darkness in deepest
darkest Essex.

I know what you mean - first time I used my SON properly, I absolutely
fell in love with it. :-)

/Still/ not quite dark enough in the mornings by the time I get to the unlit
section...

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
I am the Disgruntled Employee; I am the New Face of Labour
Relations.

Hi Alex,

Just to follow-up on this, I ended up taking your recommendation and
ordering a bundle from bikeplus. I went for the Mavic MA3 (32H) option as
it matches my existing set-up. Had a quick test ride last night and the
lumotech performed well. Using it in anger on David Lewis' Gower Getter 200
tomorrow...

Very impressed with the service. Ordered on Tuesday night and arrived
yesterday morning!

Thanks for the suggestion!

One silly question with regards to the SON. Having done a bit of reading
around prior to this, I noticed that the often quoted drag graph shows two
lines, one for drag under load and one unloaded. I'd imagined that there
would be some sort of switch or lever to manually disengage the generator,
but can't spot one on the hub. Is it clever enough to engage/disengage
dependant on whether a load is detected?

Thanks,

Andy