Kew Crit 17.4.04

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by flyingdutch
Didnt feel much pep in the legs on arrival. maybe they will 'come->to-life' as the race progresses, me hopes

When you are forced to work hard, you forget that you
have tired legs.. until the sprint! 🙂

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easier than last week's effort.

Pace always changes weekly. Some riders are fresh so
attack, sometimes stronger riders are competing at higher
level races, etc..

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Despite nagging from the commissaire, most of my group >still 'Sat-up' onto the tail of the C'ers for a lap.

Sitting up means you aren't going hard - you are on the tops
of the bars - usually after a hard effort or when you give up.
Sitting on a faster bunch is a no-no. I'd attack the bunch while
they were asleep on the back of C... just because I don't like
this 'cheating' (for want of a better word).

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conscious of not constantly looking at my computer to watch
the 30mins tick away. As i had forgot to 'zero' it at the start it >was irrelevant anyway!

You need to remember to zero it at the start of the race but
don't stare at it during the race - it'll mess with your head...
"oh god.. 20 whole minutes to go! Noo!"

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I heard (i think i heard) a bell and wandered if that was ours.

It should be pretty obvious which bell is yours. You'll only get
it when your bunch is crossing the line for the last lap.
Problems can arise when your bunch is being passed by
another bunch on the line... but you should know it's YOUR
last lap because the race director would've been holding up
3 laps to go, 2 laps to go signs (then it's bell lap).

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42T and spinning was taking the stress out of all the changing

I don't know that course, but you'll find most people don't move
out of the big ring in races. Less risk of dropping chain should you
have to change to the big ring and much more potential for speed
when needed - to chase breaks, etc.

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Then we pass the line and the Bell is donged at us.
Right, 3 laps to go, my memory recalls from the start-brief.

No, bell lap is always the last lap. LAST lap. dingaling.. "this
must be the last lap!". I don't know what the briefing guy was
thinking when he "briefed" you, but there should be signs for
3 laps and 2 laps to go and bell is always the last lap.

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The pace ups a bit and i wheel-suck like a 'hippy-on-heat'!

Not a pretty image 🙂

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AND THE BUGGER IS HOLDING UP THE FLAG!#@#!@#@#!!!!!

Did I mention bell lap is the LAST lap? (You don't need to be
told this, right?)

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What happened to 3 laps? Cdale guy says he thought the same >thing, so obviously we both made the same mistake. Dooooh!

Hmm, maybe these Kew people are strange..

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Pity as I was starting to feel better at the end than I had
at the start.

Ahh.. now you see the benefit of warming up 🙂 Get to the race
earlier and get your HR up and you will feel better from the start.
Pity I can't do that at METEC tonight... always late to that!

Quoted message said:

So second goal achieved. Didnt get dropped

Noice! Keep going and you'll have a win soon!

hippy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by hippy

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Sitting up means you aren't going hard - you are on the tops
of the bars - usually after a hard effort or when you give up.
Sitting on a faster bunch is a no-no. I'd attack the bunch while
they were asleep on the back of C... just because I don't like
this 'cheating' (for want of a better word).

Im sure he said sitting up as my ears pricked up when he said it cos as you say, i always thought it was up on the drops

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last lap because the race director would've been holding up
3 laps to go, 2 laps to go signs (then it's bell lap).

Didnt see the signs/cards. that was what probably confused me and Cdale-Guy.

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I don't know that course, but you'll find most people don't >>move out of the big ring in races. Less risk of dropping chain >>should you have to change to the big ring and much more p>>otential for speed when needed - to chase breaks, etc.

Definelty do 53T on flat courses but sropping my chain at the back of the Sun am Fitzroy bunch gave me the idea and my main goal was to stay fresh throughout the race, not make a break.
Shall use the 53T occasionally next week...

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Did I mention bell lap is the LAST lap?
(You don't need to be told this, right?)

OK, OK already.

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Hmm, maybe these Kew people are strange..

No, probably just my inexperience

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Ahh.. now you see the benefit of warming up 🙂 Get to the race
earlier and get your HR up and you will feel better from the s>>start.

Yep, another thing to learn... actually got around for approx 4-5 laps and rolled up to the groupas the C'saire was giving the speel. Obviously I shoulda listened....

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So second goal achieved. Didnt get dropped
Noice! Keep going and you'll have a win soon!

Its all REALLY fun at the moment! (if not somewhat confusing...)
The (small) improvement after just 2 has given me a real buzz.
Must check out those winter races you posted as next week is the last one for the summer.

If i havent mentioned it, thanx so much for all your advice.
I am listening, but I guess its just a matter of time before i dont forget half of it during the race!

hippy

G'day,

sounds like a better effort this week, race fitness & experience should help improvement every week. Did Hippy mention that the bell is always the LAST lap?.....just wanted to make sure.....LOL...I'm not sure about that 42T chainring either. I don't know the course real well, but it would want to be an enormous hill to consider changing to the small ring. Any attacks that come, all things being equal, will normally come going up a hill, (harder for the weaker riders to hold on.....shows the attacker the level of committment the bunch has to the 'chase'😉, so you don't want to get caught in the small chainring when that happens...5secs to change up can mean a lot more work chasing, rather than sucking wheel. Hippy's right about the warm up too. Your warm up should start slow, just rolling the legs over & then build in intensity toward race time. Ideally, you would arrive at the start line with 1min to go, with your heart at 'race pace'. Zero the speedo, particularly important to know the 'time' (of a limited time race, such as a crit).This will help you make tactical decisions (when you start making them), such as whether to chase, or leave the bugger 'out there' for awhile, when to launch your own attack etc etc....it'll all come together., the real important thing at the moment is just keep racing...you'll learn more & more every week,

Cheers,

Hitchy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Hitchy
G'day,

sounds like a better effort this week, race fitness & experience should help improvement every week. Did Hippy mention that the bell is always the LAST lap?.....just wanted to make sure.....LOL...I'm not sure about that 42T chainring either. I don't know the course real well, but it would want to be an enormous hill to consider changing to the small ring. Any attacks that come, all things being equal, will normally come going up a hill, (harder for the weaker riders to hold on.....shows the attacker the level of committment the bunch has to the 'chase'😉, so you don't want to get caught in the small chainring when that happens...5secs to change up can mean a lot more work chasing, rather than sucking wheel. Hippy's right about the warm up too. Your warm up should start slow, just rolling the legs over & then build in intensity toward race time. Ideally, you would arrive at the start line with 1min to go, with your heart at 'race pace'. Zero the speedo, particularly important to know the 'time' (of a limited time race, such as a crit).This will help you make tactical decisions (when you start making them), such as whether to chase, or leave the bugger 'out there' for awhile, when to launch your own attack etc etc....it'll all come together., the real important thing at the moment is just keep racing...you'll learn more & more every week,

Cheers,

Hitchy

I was going to the front at the top 100m of the hill almost every time cos I was spinning better, but OK, stomping next week

and what does that Bell mean again ??? 😄 😄 😄

(you can ring ma beeeellll, ring my bell.
memory of [censored] late eighties one-hit-wonder in lycra)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by flyingdutch
I was going to the front at the top 100m of the hill almost every time cos I was spinning better, but OK, stomping next week

and what does that Bell mean again ??? 😄 😄 😄

(you can ring ma beeeellll, ring my bell.
memory of [censored] late eighties one-hit-wonder in lycra)

Flying dude, good to see that you're having fun. I find improving the biggest motivator with cycling (and my other passion - snow skiing).

I think you can also spin in the big chainring, you'll just need to put it on a lower gear at the back. It's better to keep it in the big ring for that circuit in case of attacks after the hill or down the back straight.

I agree with you about being at the front because of your spinning actually. When out of the saddle up the hill, unless you can really push a big gear, the cadence you can get up to will be lower than if you sit down.

I experienced this in my last race on that circuit. I found that rather than standing, I could put it into the next lowest gear and remain in the saddle and get more power output because of my increased cadence. I'll definitely be trying that approach next time I race out there (last race next Wednesday?)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by flyingdutch
I was going to the front at the top 100m of the hill almost every time cos I was spinning better, but OK, stomping next week

and what does that Bell mean again ??? 😄 😄 😄

(you can ring ma beeeellll, ring my bell.
memory of [censored] late eighties one-hit-wonder in lycra)

g'day,

I seem to recall reading in some post that you're around 85kgs? Hills in crits are an interesting proposition for bigger guys.(gravity sucks!), you've really got 2 choices....Don't go to to front going up hill if you can help it....suck wheel & let the skinny guys do the work, save the legs at all costs, especially if its an uphill sprint to the finish. The only time I would change that tactic is :1/ you're struggling to hold onto the skinny guys going up the hill. In this instance, its probably best to go to the front, that way you get to 'set the pace' up the hill. Go at your pace, not someone elses. 9 times out of 10 they will all just sit on you anyway. Canny guys will see this tactic for what it is, but there's not usually many of them in a D or C race (who can do anything about it anyway!). The only other time you should go to the front (up hill) is if YOU are intent on making the bunch suffer!.....half arsed attacks really only hurt yourself, if you're gunna do it, you've gotta be committed to giving it a good 'go'. before considering an attack, you'll have sussed out who's in the bunch, (you'll get to know how good the regulars are), how you're feeling, the time of the race (you probably don't wanna go to early, if you do, it just gives them more time to hunt you down!)....Now that you know that you can hang on (& what the bell is about .....LOL) try some tactics next week......whats the old quote..."I love it when a plan comes together",

cheers,

Hitchy

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by jazmo
I experienced this in my last race on that circuit. I found
that rather than standing, I could put it into the next
lowest gear and remain in the saddle and get more
power output because of my increased cadence.

You use less energy by pedaling seated too. Watch
the XC racers - it's very rare seeing any of them stand
up. Sitting down is a lot more efficient for heavier
dudes (I find) whereas the lighter roadies can often
ride while standing up for ages...
I usually try to remain seated. If it's a long climb though
it's good to get off the saddle and 'freshen' the legs
with a different position and riding style. You will
usually push the next higher gear when standing up.
Lots of this kind of info is out there in racing/riding
books and websites... just gotta have time to absorb
it all and then throw it all out the window when something
totally different works for you. 😉

I'm having a bad run at the moment Jaz, so if you want
to kill me tonight at METEC, you have a good chance 🙂

hippy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by hippy
I'm having a bad run at the moment Jaz, so if you want
to kill me tonight at METEC, you have a good chance 🙂

hippy

I don't think I'll be out there tonight.

I've had a bit of illness during the week which I don't think I'm completely over yet.

I'll leave the killing up to Rick. He's able to do a better job of that anyway. 😉

All the best for tonight.

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by jazmo
I don't think I'll be out there tonight.
I've had a bit of illness during the week which I don't
think I'm completely over yet.

Me too.. it's called 'triathlon'.

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I'll leave the killing up to Rick. He's able to do a
better job of that anyway. 😉
All the best for tonight.

Cheers! I'll let you know how much he beats me by 🙂

hippy
- confidence with a capital b

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by flyingdutch
My 2nd go at racing
Me and a dude on a yello C'dale alternated at thef ront and it felt like we were going to drop the other 3.

Then we pass the line and the Bell is donged at us. Right, 3 laps to go, my memory recalls from the start-brief.
The pace ups a bit and i wheel-suck like a 'hippy-on-heat'!
Cdale man and another go to the front going ito the hairpin and try to take off going up the hill, me sittng and spinning.
Im aiming to have a go down the back straight. the other 3 come up next to and infront of me. we approach the line again
AND THE BUGGER IS HOLDING UP THE FLAG!#@#!@#@#!!!!!

What happened to 3 laps? Cdale guy says he thought the same thing, so obviously we both made the same mistake. Dooooh!

It's already been said, but the bell is the last lap. If you hear a whistle, that's a sprint lap (unless they've lost the bell).

If someone's on a Cannondale, there's a 99% chance they are (or were) a triathlete. Hence, don't take any racing tactics from them, like trying to keep the pace high towards the end of a race, or thinking that the bell means three to go (ie. dragging people around to set them up for the sprint).

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Hitchy
g'day,

I seem to recall reading in some post that you're around 85kgs?
cheers,

84kg (and counting) now!!!

much cheaper than buying CFibre stuff!!!!!!

"flyingdutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My 2nd go at racing

Didnt feel much pep in the legs on arrival. maybe they
will 'come-to- life' as the race progresses, me hopes

I counted 14 D'ers roll off up the hill

approx 10 laps later and we were all still together. All
very civilised and unless my thoughts were decieving me,
easier than last week's effort.

Going over the top of the hill we split into 2 with approx
6-7 going slowly off ahead. Cgrade finally caught us. They
were definetley going slower than last week and all
together too. They past, but this time they werent going
to get me on that Left hairpin. Despite nagging from the
commissaire, most of my group still 'Sat-up' onto the tail
of the C'ers for a lap.

We kept going around and around (inMurray Walker voice)
and i had been conscious of not constantly looking at my
computer to watch the 30mins tick away. As i had forgot to
'zero' it at the start it was irrelevant anyway! I was
guessing 5-10 mins to go... I heard (i think i heard) a
bell and wandered if that was ours. Passed the line and
nothing was said so I assumed I was imagining things. I
was alternating between going to the back or to the front
(usually on the hill; my tactic of just sticking on the
42T and spinning was taking the stress out of all the
changing).

Me and a dude on a yello C'dale alternated at thef ront
and it felt like we were going to drop the other 3.

Then we pass the line and the Bell is donged at us. Right,
3 laps to go, my memory recalls from the start-brief. The
pace ups a bit and i wheel- suck like a 'hippy-on-heat'!
Cdale man and another go to the front going ito the
hairpin and try to take off going up the hill, me sittng
and spinning. Im aiming to have a go down the back
straight. the other 3 come up next to and infront of me.
we approach the line again AND THE BUGGER IS HOLDING UP
THE FLAG!#@#!@#@#!!!!!

What happened to 3 laps? Cdale guy says he thought the
same thing, so obviously we both made the same
mistake. Dooooh!

Put that one down to alearning experience, then (Hue
eeddiiooott, Stimpy!)

Pity as I was starting to feel better at the end than I
had at the start. What gave me a real buzz was how fresh i
felt when I got home and how fast the pedals turned this
morning ( in the dark with no redlights too:-) ).

So second goal achieved. Didnt get dropped

Next weeks adventure will be staying with that front
half...

Which rider were you (ie What color jersey etc)? What was
your ride? I was standing near the registration point in the
Richmond Cyclery colours prior to the start of the C/D
races. I stopped of at the Kew Loop on the way home from
work on the off chance that a couple of mates might have
turned up to race, but they didn't. I was also keeping an
eye out for a guy on a Peugeot matching the description of
Hippy but he wasn't there either 😉. I stayed until the race
started and then headed north for home, along the boulevard,
doing big gear, seated, hill sprints along the way. I have
not raced at the Loop this year because it has not really
fitted in with my summer training program which is primarily
aimed at the Track. For me Weds are fairly light days, with
the hill sprints thrown in for some strength training along
the way, prior to my Thursday afternoon track torture (yes -
torture is the correct term to describe it) sessions at the
Coburg velodrome. No pain - No gain so I keep telling myelf.

Geoff

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Originally posted by Geoff
"Which rider were you (ie What color jersey etc)? What was
your ride? Geoff

Green (light) metallic steel853 frame, chrome stays, carbon forks, black wheels

Orange/Black/white Arthur Andersen top, Red Helmet

think i spotted Ben, Alias 'EatToRide' after on a red Blucher...

"flyingdutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff said:

"Which rider were you (ie What color jersey etc)? What
was your ride? Geoff

Green (light) metallic steel853 frame, chrome stays,
carbon forks, black wheels

Orange/Black/white Arthur Andersen top, Red Helmet

think i spotted Ben, Alias 'EatToRide' after on a red
Blucher...

I remember the seeing the guy on the red Blucher but don't
remember seeing you.

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Originally posted by Geoff
"I remember the seeing the guy on the red Blucher but don't
remember seeing you.

\

Story of my life!🙁

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by Geoff
I was also keeping an eye out for a guy on a Peugeot
matching the description of Hippy but he wasn't there
either 😉.

He was busy suffering a woeful climb up the 1:20...

Methinks time off the bike could be needed?

hippy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by hippy
>Originally posted by Geoff

Quoted message said:

I was also keeping an eye out for a guy on a Peugeot
matching the description of Hippy but he wasn't there
either 😉.

He was busy suffering a woeful climb up the 1:20...

Methinks time off the bike could be needed?

hippy

I read somewhere (so it automatically becomes a fact!) that if you take 1 week out of normal training it takes you 6 weeks to regain the same level of fitness. Now that's gonna mess with your head Hipsta:eek: 😕 😄

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by flyingdutch
I read somewhere (so it automatically becomes a fact!) that
if you take 1 week out of normal training it takes you 6
weeks to regain the same level of fitness. Now that's
gonna mess with your head Hipsta:eek: 😕 😄

You [censored]! :P
It's too bad coz I'm going O.S. for 4 weeks, so training
stops regardless of what I want to happen. Screw the
bike, I'm going on holiday!! 🙂

I've taken more than 6 wks off before and come back
and won races, so I guess (as usual) it all 'depends'.
If I'm just going to get slower and slower with what I
am doing now, then obviously 'something' needs to
change. I can't see myself doing more, other than
starting riding to work again (when I get better lights?)
and that would have to be a well-managed, keep eye
on HRM, low-intensity thing, not then usual chase-fest
I make it.

Anyone with coaching experience out there?
What can I do to go faster? Train more or train less?
How can I tell if I am adequately recovered?
I need to speak to Carl again about coaching.. I'm
never going to develop an effective program alone.
Ahh, this is supposed to be fun :P

hippy

Shabby <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

flyingdutch said:

My 2nd go at racing Me and a dude on a yello C'dale
alternated at thef ront and it felt like we were going
to drop the other 3. Then we pass the line and the
Bell is donged at us. Right, 3 laps to go, my memory
recalls from the start-brief. The pace ups a bit and i
wheel- suck like a 'hippy-on-heat'! Cdale man and
another go to the front going ito the hairpin and try
to take off going up the hill, me sittng and spinning.
Im aiming to have a go down the back straight. the
other 3 come up next to and infront of me. we approach
the line again AND THE BUGGER IS HOLDING UP THE
FLAG!#@#!@#@#!!!!! What happened to 3 laps? Cdale guy
says he thought the same thing, so obviously we both
made the same mistake. Dooooh!

It's already been said, but the bell is the last lap. If
you hear a whistle, that's a sprint lap (unless they've
lost the bell).

If someone's on a Cannondale, there's a 99% chance they
are (or were) a triathlete. Hence, don't take any racing
tactics from them, like trying to keep the pace high
towards the end of a race, or thinking that the bell means
three to go (ie. dragging people around to set them up for
the sprint).

That's right - if Gilberto Simoni makes a late break, don't
bother because he probably miscounted the laps...

tee hee

Ritch