kevlar vs. wire beaded clinchers

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by p55mac
I’m aware of the weight savings of kevlar but have always used wire beaded clinchers. I have 700x25s (with sport-touring geometry 23s are too twitchy on my Trek). My question: are kevlar/folding tires easier to install than wire clinchers? Anybody?

Thank you in advance.

Easier. You won't even need tire levers, just fingers.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by KingB
Easier. You won't even need tire levers, just fingers.

Well, that is just not always true. Depends on the tire and the rim and some are harder than some wires,so I call hooey.

I needed levers with my Gommitalia kevlars on open pro rims. But not difficult. Weight savings doesn't mean much to me, but I like being able to fold.

Nothing different except for weight. The bead acts as a puncture barrier. Whether a tire is easily mounted onto your rim depends on the tire size, not the material used.

Technically you should be able to place a tire onto your rim without tire levers, unless you pumped up the tube a little.

Regards,
Sean

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by KingB
Easier. You won't even need tire levers, just fingers.

Agree. When using your hands and not tire levers, the last tight stretch of tire is easier to put on if the tire is kevlar. More flexy than wire bead, no question about that. I've tried several brands of tires that come in both kevlar and wire bead and the kevlar ones are simply easier to install. So yes, in general kevlar beaded tires are easier to install than wire beaded. There may be dream world bourdeaux exceptions, but I ****ing doubt it.

I agree with y'all in theory, but find that most combinations of tires and rims behave a bit differently from one another. Kevlar beads can be stretchier than wire ones, but all else is rarely ever equal.

I've got some rims that you can throw most tires on with your bare hands in seconds, and other rim/tire combos that have me sweating, with bleeding knuckles, levers flying across the room, etc...

🙁

In my (yes, admittedly limited) experience, kevlar-beaded tyres are easier to install/remove than wire-beaded ones - I've never had to use levers on them. For me, the big advantage is that you can fold the tyre down the the size of a small sandwich and stick it in a pocket. So even if you completely shred a tyre somehow, you won't have to walk home.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by buffedupboy
Nothing different except for weight. The bead acts as a puncture barrier. Whether a tire is easily mounted onto your rim depends on the tire size, not the material used.

Technically you should be able to place a tire onto your rim without tire levers, unless you pumped up the tube a little.

Regards,
Sean

a whole barge load of hooey.... The bead has nothing to do with puncture resistance. Mounting difficulty depends on the specific tire,as there are variations, and the rim,as there are variations in rims that also increase mounting difficulty. I have run into combinations of both kind,that absolutely DID require levers.

I agree with the first hooey call. The ease of getting the tire onto the rim has way more to do with the tire/rim combination than it does with the bead material. And I've run into both wire and kevlar bead tires that require tire levers to install depending upon the rim. As for the barge load of hooey call, it's true that the bead material has nothing to do with puncture resistance. So that too is legitimate hooey.

Use sew-ups, no beads to worry about 🙂

Interesting takes, and as always, very entertaining. You know, with my wires that last tight stretch 😄 BaCardi refers to is always the most unnerving. If I’m not on the road I usually give up and grab a beer. That said, I find that letting the stretch sit for about five minutes or so actually facilitates the process by stretching it even more. Though I admit it is difficult to watch (oh my poor tire) and wonder if I may be damaging it in any way.

I would think the bead whether kevlar or wire provides blow-off resistance; sole function (apart from folding kevlars) is to keep the tire on the rim when riding at high pressures. Having not tried them yet I’ll give kevlar beads a shot. It may be just a little easier with my fr....gin rims (I’ll have a beer standing nearby, just in case). If not, I’ll have the satisfaction knowing my 24.5lb Trek was shaved by a 100 grams.

Thanks again everybody. 🙂

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
a whole barge load of hooey.... The bead has nothing to do with puncture resistance. Mounting difficulty depends on the specific tire,as there are variations, and the rim,as there are variations in rims that also increase mounting difficulty. I have run into combinations of both kind,that absolutely DID require levers.

Okay then what is the bead for? You must be getting really old or you must pump your inner tubes up a little before you seat the tire. Any tire can be mounted onto any rim provided they are meant for the same sized wheel without levers. It's just a matter of difficulty. What a bunch or hooey....

Regards,
Sean

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by buffedupboy
Okay then what is the bead for? You must be getting really old or you must pump your inner tubes up a little before you seat the tire. Any tire can be mounted onto any rim provided they are meant for the same sized wheel without levers. It's just a matter of difficulty. What a bunch or hooey....

Not sure what the disagreement is here.

I think we all agree that any clincher tire can be seated on a clincher rim of the appropriate size. I think we all also agree that some rim and tire combinations are bloody difficult to mate, presumably because God thinks it's funny to watch us wince while changing a tire, and for no other reason.

If you can mount any common-width 700c clincher tire on any 700c clincher rim without levers, well, sure: it's a matter or difficulty and you're a helluva lot stronger than I am. I can go lever-less with some, but with others, I suppose I'll need to have you come over and help me. I can't argue with your muscles.

As for the bead -- the bead serves a function in maintaining the form of the tire, and assisting in seating along the clincher lip. I'm not sure what affect that function has on puncture prevention. Perhaps you could clarify?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by buffedupboy
It's just a matter of difficulty. What a bunch or hooey....

Regards,
Sean

And sometimes that difficulty does involve levers.I've been there a few times.The tires and rims WERE right for ech other and they were NOT going on any other way. You just haven't been around long enuf and seen enuf stuff.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah


As for the bead -- the bead serves a function in maintaining the form of the tire, and assisting in seating along the clincher lip. I'm not sure what affect that function has on puncture prevention. Perhaps you could clarify?

I don't think he knows what one is and it is certainly different than the kevlar belt thet does go under the tread for puncture resistance.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
And sometimes that difficulty does involve levers.I've been there a few times.The tires and rims WERE right for ech other and they were NOT going on any other way. You just haven't been around long enuf and seen enuf stuff.

I guess so. My bad about the tire bead, wrongly informed. However I can attest that although my screename is buffedupboy, it doesn't say much about my strength. I have done a lot of tires without using any lever to put them on, same with the local mechanic. I used to use levers until this skinny old man laughed at me and showed me how it is done. Basically when you install the tire, you make sure that it is installed flat and not folded. Do not inflate to avoid pinches. By doing this, when you reach the end of the tire to be mounted, the tire on the other side won't be raised from the rim by the inflated tube. Try it the next time, you will be suprised. And for the really stubborn tires, roll them on, not lift and drop.

Regards,
Sean

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by buffedupboy
...I can attest that although my screename is buffedupboy, it doesn't say much about my strength. I have done a lot of tires without using any lever to put them on, same with the local mechanic. I used to use levers until this skinny old man laughed at me and showed me how it is done.

Well, like I said before, I can't argue with your testimonials. Maybe you really have refined a technique that permits anyone -- skinny old man or spry young adonis -- to mount any clincher tire with no levers and no issues. But the technique you describe is more or less the standard job.

I'm a little inclined to suspect truth in boudreaux's suggestion that you just haven't encountered many rim/tire combos. My old Shimano 6500 wheelset was an absolute beast to mount Michelin ProRaces on -- we're talking skinned knuckels and tears rolling down my cheeks -- and none of my buddies had better luck. Even my Ksyrium SL + Vittoria combo is a bit tough. Not too hard, but a lever or two makes it a lot simpler.

This is high drama

🙂

I no longer see tasks like mounting of tires as a test of manhood, and will use a little help from the lever when the going gets tough. If the tube is in position inside the tire bead as it should be, you won't pinch the tire.

Why struggle with this job....use the lever when needed, despite the dire warnings on the side of the innertube box.