ketos does not fall

Every week? Try checking it 2x per day - and see if that shows positive
results.

--
______
joliett

"CRAZZY BUGGER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:p1xag.24709$fV1.4870@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now and check my ketons every week, I
am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day to adjust my
keton level but it is not changing, any suggestion, thanks

Any positive litmus test for ketones is good enough. You do not need to
achieve a dark purple reading.

Keto sticks are helpful, but not a sure thing.

"CRAZZY BUGGER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:p1xag.24709$fV1.4870@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now and check my ketons every week,

I

Quoted message said:

am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day to adjust my
keton level but it is not changing, any suggestion, thanks

Cubit said:

Any positive litmus test for ketones is good enough. You do not need to
achieve a dark purple reading.

Keto sticks are helpful, but not a sure thing.

Agreed. The test strios are not very accurate. For example, the level
of ketones in your urine is directly affected by the amount of water
you drink. Testing after a hot day when doing yard work and sweating
a lot and not drinking a lot will produce a much higher test reading
than a day when you have been drinking lots of fluid and not sweating.

Quoted message said:

"CRAZZY BUGGER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:p1xag.24709$fV1.4870@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now and check my ketons every week,

I

Quoted message said:

am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day to adjust my
keton level but it is not changing, any suggestion, thanks

CRAZZY BUGGER said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now

Please - Atkins is something specific. If you aren't doing what it
is, please don't use the term for your own homegrown low carb
plan. There's nothing wrong with making low carb up as you go
but please call it your own design.

Quoted message said:

and check my ketons every week,

You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on
what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
you urinate is best. You want to find out what time of day
the sticks read the darkest because in around 2 weeks the
body adjusts and the sticks move lighter. You want to be
prepared for this natural progression of events and know
when you're most likely to get any results at all on the sticks.

Quoted message said:

I
am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day

Atkins is something specific and there are quotas of carb to
reach. Your counts are fine for someone who says they are
doing their own low carb plan so please call it that.

Quoted message said:

to adjust my keton level but it is not changing

You appear to be confused on what levels there are - There are
only two levels positive and negative. Trace or darker on the
sticks is positive, unchanged on the sticks is negative, and
the sticks are inaccurate enough (and our carb counts are
inaccurate enough) that it is common to read negative a few
times in a row while still in ketosis.

Note there's something important in the part about positive
being trace or darker - Darker readings on the stick are not
better if you actually are trying to be on Atkins. For what
Atkins actually is in the directions you want positive and that's
it.

Something else that is tempting to believe that is false:
Eating a lower carb count does NOT make the sticks darker.
Doesn't matter that it's obvious; obvous does not equal true.
Go below some carb count (your CCLL) and you're in ketosis
and registering positive. Go lower and the sticks don't get
darker.

There's real biochemistry behind why cutting carbs lower and
lower doesn't increase ketosis levels. Insulin suppresses
ketosis and insulin is released in response to dietary carbs.
But low insulin is NOT the cause of ketosis. Once the insulin
level is low enough that it stops suppressing ketosis further
reduction doesn't bring further non-suppression. What
increases ketosis is the hormone glucagon and that's
released by the body in indirect response to dietary fat.
Controlling dietary fat intake is what makes ketosis more or
less not controlling dietary carbs.

Glucagon is why the instructions of Induction state that
combinin low fat with low carb with derail your progress -
With low fat there isn't enough glucagon to pull fat out of
storage so insulin levels don't matter. If there's nothing to
suppress the suppression action is irrelevant.

Doug Freyburger said:

CRAZZY BUGGER said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now

Please - Atkins is something specific. If you aren't doing what it
is, please don't use the term for your own homegrown low carb
plan. There's nothing wrong with making low carb up as you go
but please call it your own design.

Quoted message said:

and check my ketons every week,

You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on
what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
you urinate is best.

First you blast the guy about Atkins being specific. Then you claim
he has to be using ketone test strips daily to be doing Atkins. As I
recall, Dr Atkins said you could use them, but never said they had to
be used at all to do Atkins.

You want to find out what time of day

Quoted message said:

the sticks read the darkest because in around 2 weeks the
body adjusts and the sticks move lighter. You want to be
prepared for this natural progression of events and know
when you're most likely to get any results at all on the sticks.

Quoted message said:

I
am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day

Atkins is something specific and there are quotas of carb to
reach. Your counts are fine for someone who says they are
doing their own low carb plan so please call it that.

Quoted message said:

to adjust my keton level but it is not changing

You appear to be confused on what levels there are - There are
only two levels positive and negative. Trace or darker on the
sticks is positive, unchanged on the sticks is negative, and
the sticks are inaccurate enough (and our carb counts are
inaccurate enough) that it is common to read negative a few
times in a row while still in ketosis.

Apparently the manufacturers of the strips believe there is more than
just positive and negative as there is a color guide right on the
bottle to the amount of ketones.

Quoted message said:

Note there's something important in the part about positive
being trace or darker - Darker readings on the stick are not
better if you actually are trying to be on Atkins. For what
Atkins actually is in the directions you want positive and that's
it.

Something else that is tempting to believe that is false:
Eating a lower carb count does NOT make the sticks darker.
Doesn't matter that it's obvious; obvous does not equal true.
Go below some carb count (your CCLL) and you're in ketosis
and registering positive. Go lower and the sticks don't get
darker.

I'm not so sure about this. What's the basis for this claim?

Quoted message said:

There's real biochemistry behind why cutting carbs lower and
lower doesn't increase ketosis levels. Insulin suppresses
ketosis and insulin is released in response to dietary carbs.
But low insulin is NOT the cause of ketosis. Once the insulin
level is low enough that it stops suppressing ketosis further
reduction doesn't bring further non-suppression. What
increases ketosis is the hormone glucagon and that's
released by the body in indirect response to dietary fat.
Controlling dietary fat intake is what makes ketosis more or
less not controlling dietary carbs.

Glucagon is why the instructions of Induction state that
combinin low fat with low carb with derail your progress -
With low fat there isn't enough glucagon to pull fat out of
storage so insulin levels don't matter. If there's nothing to
suppress the suppression action is irrelevant.

Quoted message said:

Doug Freyburger said:

CRAZZY BUGGER wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to adjust my keton level but it is not changing

Quoted message said:

You appear to be confused on what levels there are - There are
only two levels positive and negative. Trace or darker on the
sticks is positive, unchanged on the sticks is negative, and
the sticks are inaccurate enough (and our carb counts are
inaccurate enough) that it is common to read negative a few
times in a row while still in ketosis.

Apparently the manufacturers of the strips believe there is more than
just positive and negative as there is a color guide right on the
bottle to the amount of ketones.

The sticks are made to tell diabetics if they should get checked
for ketoacidosis so the color guide on the label is for them not
for low carbers who happen to use a tool not designed for us.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Something else that is tempting to believe that is false:
Eating a lower carb count does NOT make the sticks darker.
Doesn't matter that it's obvious; obvous does not equal true.
Go below some carb count (your CCLL) and you're in ketosis
and registering positive. Go lower and the sticks don't get
darker.

I'm not so sure about this. What's the basis for this claim?

Try it and see. Gather some data from yourself and from others.

Doug Freyburger said:

Quoted message said:

Doug Freyburger said:

CRAZZY BUGGER wrote:

Quoted message said:

> to adjust my keton level but it is not changing

Quoted message said:

You appear to be confused on what levels there are - There are
only two levels positive and negative. Trace or darker on the
sticks is positive, unchanged on the sticks is negative, and
the sticks are inaccurate enough (and our carb counts are
inaccurate enough) that it is common to read negative a few
times in a row while still in ketosis.

Apparently the manufacturers of the strips believe there is more than
just positive and negative as there is a color guide right on the
bottle to the amount of ketones.

The sticks are made to tell diabetics if they should get checked
for ketoacidosis so the color guide on the label is for them not
for low carbers who happen to use a tool not designed for us.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Something else that is tempting to believe that is false:
Eating a lower carb count does NOT make the sticks darker.
Doesn't matter that it's obvious; obvous does not equal true.
Go below some carb count (your CCLL) and you're in ketosis
and registering positive. Go lower and the sticks don't get
darker.

I'm not so sure about this. What's the basis for this claim?

Try it and see. Gather some data from yourself and from others.

See, Doug there you go again. I was willing to give you the benefit of
the doubt. Once again, yout spew [censored] as if it were established fact.
And when asked what the basis for your assertion is, your answer is
that I should gather data?

Quoted message said:

From the limited data I have, I think the above is likely false. But,

I realize that I don't really have any convincing data, one way of the
other. The difference is, I recognize that and don;t go running
around spewing [censored] as if it were fact.

Quoted message said:

See, Doug there you go again. I was willing to give you the benefit of
the doubt. Once again, yout spew [censored] as if it were established fact.
And when asked what the basis for your assertion is, your answer is
that I should gather data?

When you don't believe or don't like something you call it [censored].

Quoted message said:

From the limited data I have, I think the above is likely false. But,
I realize that I don't really have any convincing data, one way of the
other. The difference is, I recognize that and don;t go running
around spewing [censored] as if it were fact.

You don't have any data whatsoever. My data isn't gathered in an
auditted experimental process and so it needs to be improved on
but it still beats yours.

Pick a carb count below your CCLL to have you in ketosis with a
margin. Stay there 4+ weeks. Test daily starting then. Start
decreasing your carb count every few days adn test daily while
doing so. See what happens. The sticks don't get darker all the
way down to zero. Because carb count doesn't control how dark
the sticks get just whether they turn or not. Gather the data and
you'll see it's about the biochemistry not your dataless beliefs.

Doug Freyburger said:

Quoted message said:

See, Doug there you go again. I was willing to give you the benefit of
the doubt. Once again, yout spew [censored] as if it were established fact.
And when asked what the basis for your assertion is, your answer is
that I should gather data?

When you don't believe or don't like something you call it [censored].

No, I call it [censored] when it's presented as fact and in reality, you have
no link, no reference, nothing credible to back it up, as you did in
this case. Remember when you outlined as fact for everyone exactly
how Dr. Agatston came up with the South Beach Diet? You even claimed
he worked at Atkins Center with Dr Atkins. When challenged, that all
fell apart as a total fabrication based on pure conjecture. You took
something that was mere speculation and presented it as fact. In
reality, Agatston never worked even worked at Atkins Center.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From the limited data I have, I think the above is likely false. But,
I realize that I don't really have any convincing data, one way of the
other. The difference is, I recognize that and don;t go running
around spewing [censored] as if it were fact.

You don't have any data whatsoever. My data isn't gathered in an
auditted experimental process and so it needs to be improved on
but it still beats yours.

You're right, that I don't have any real valid data that I collected.
The difference is, I realize that and would never present anything
along those lines as fact. You fail to see how dangerous or improper
this is. You state something as if it were proven fact. Unless
someone challenged you, others reading this would be left with the
impression it is fact. In reality, it's YOUR OPINION. If you stated
that your scientific prognostications are based on data consisting of
internet newgroup postings most people would just dimiss your so called
data and conclusions as worthless.

If you made posts that said, "based on my own experience with testing
strips, I think...." then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But
clearly you have a problem seperating fact from limited personal
observation or conjecture. And base on that, I wouldn't trust any of
your so called data or conclusions period.

Quoted message said:

Pick a carb count below your CCLL to have you in ketosis with a
margin. Stay there 4+ weeks. Test daily starting then. Start
decreasing your carb count every few days adn test daily while
doing so. See what happens. The sticks don't get darker all the
way down to zero. Because carb count doesn't control how dark
the sticks get just whether they turn or not. Gather the data and
you'll see it's about the biochemistry not your dataless beliefs.

I'm the one with dataless beliefs? LOL. I'm not the one matter of
factly stating things that are based on conclusions drawn from God
knows what.

Let's look at some of the other [censored] you spewed and compare it to
Atkins from DANDR latest edition:

Doug: "You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on
what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
you urinate is best. "

Atkins: "You don;t have to use LTS, but doing so can be an extremely
convenient aid to doing Atkins"

Doug: "You appear to be confused on what levels there are - There are

only two levels positive and negative. "

Atkins "The more ketones you excrete, and therefore the greater the
degree of ketosis you are in, the darker the color."

Doug: "Atkins is something specific and there are quotas of carb to
reach. Your counts are fine for someone who says they are
doing their own low carb plan so please call it that. "

The OP stated he was not always eating 20g of carb, but sometimes was
less than 10g. That is perfectly consistent with Atkins induction,
because the 20g is a limit, not a required number to hit. And if it
ain't kindly provide the page reference that shows otherwise. Don't
bother, cause we know it aint coming.

Doug:

You were asked by Trader4 the following which you just ignored.....

-----------------------------------------

Doug said:

You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on

Quoted message said:

what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
you urinate is best.

Trader4 wrote:
First you blast the guy about Atkins being specific. Then you claim
he has to be using ketone test strips daily to be doing Atkins. As I
recall, Dr Atkins said you could use them, but never said they had to
be used at all to do Atkins.

-----------------------------------------------

Several of us are concerned with how you "Invent" Atkins as you go along.

DANDR 2002 edition.... Page 137

"You don't have to use LTS [ Lyposis (or Ketosis)Testing Strips such as
Ketostis ] but doing so CAN be an extremely conveninet aid to doing Atkins."

"in general, the LTS will no longer turn pink or purple once you are
taking in 50 or more grams per day of carbohydrates, so they are of no
use as people get above that level of carbohydrate intake."

So, here Dr, Atkins says "You don't have to use " .... ketosis sticks ...

You say that he OP should be checking daily (according to Atkins).

Looks like "invention", Sounds like "Invention" .

You perhaps have an explanation that we uninformed can not comprehend.

Jim

You are amazing. Sometimes I just chuckle.... and forget that you have
this obsession. Other times, I feel it is important to call a duck a
duck, incase some poor newbie hasn't yet figured you out.

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplemental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Quoted message said:

Apparently the manufacturers of the strips believe there is more than
just positive and negative as there is a color guide right on the
bottle to the amount of ketones.

Sure, but it's a concentration. So if you drink a lot, it's a lighter
concentration and if you don't it's darker. This has to do with how
much you're drinking, not how many ketones you're producing.

You're in ketosis or you're not.

Try to weigh at the same time every day, or at least within the same daily
food phase. By that I mean before breakfast and after daily coffee, or
something predictable like this.

I suspect that if you are not within the desired ketone range before your
first meal each day, then you are getting more carbs than you are counting,
or maybe you are eating something that is upsetting the cart. Watch alcohol,
sugar alcohols, artificial sweeteners, and cheese. Otherwise, you just
missed the stick😉
Jimmy

"joliett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Every week? Try checking it 2x per day - and see if that shows positive
results.

--
______
joliett

"CRAZZY BUGGER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:p1xag.24709$fV1.4870@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now and check my ketons every week,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day to adjust my
keton level but it is not changing, any suggestion, thanks

"CRAZZY BUGGER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:p1xag.24709$fV1.4870@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now and check my ketons every week, I
am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day to adjust my
keton level but it is not changing, any suggestion, thanks

Who cares about the Keto rating? It means nothing. What does the scale and
your waistband say?

In article <[email hidden]>, Joe the
Aroma ([email hidden]) says...

Quoted message said:

"CRAZZY BUGGER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:p1xag.24709$fV1.4870@edtnps82...

Quoted message said:

I have been doing Atkins for 3 weeks now and check my ketons every week, I
am staying away from carbs, sugars, grain type products etc. I am not
always eating 20 gm of carbs, sometimes less than 10 a day to adjust my
keton level but it is not changing, any suggestion, thanks

Who cares about the Keto rating? It means nothing. What does the scale and
your waistband say?

There is also the possibility that his test strips have simply gone bad.
They are not as reliable as they get older and especially if they are
exposed to excess moisture (like keeping them in the bathroom).

--
Saffire
205/140/135-140 (aka JUST RIGHT!)
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

Jbuch said:

Doug:

You were asked by Trader4 the following which you just ignored.....

Doug said:

You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on

Quoted message said:

what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
you urinate is best.

Several of us are concerned with how you "Invent" Atkins as you go along.

Call it what you will. Some of the stuff I write exceed what is
within the books - using them more often early on. Other of
the stuff I write is in the books - using the sticks on a daily
basis.

Quoted message said:

DANDR 2002 edition.... Page 137

This is a problem. The versions of the books disagree. As such
if anyone cites anything someone's going to dig through other
versions to find the disagreement. It's why I end up blowing
people off when asked for cites.

Quoted message said:

"You don't have to use LTS [ Lyposis (or Ketosis)Testing Strips such as
Ketostis ] but doing so CAN be an extremely conveninet aid to doing Atkins."

As opposed to the 1972 edition where he was clear that the
entire process resolves around ketosis.

Consider my standard advice about the strips - View them as
training wheels. They read darker in the first couple of weeks,
lighter in later weeks. The early darker readings correlate with
the early more intense symptoms so they teach what those
symptoms are. The later lighter readings point to the later
fainter symptoms. Some use the sticks to learn to recognize
the fainter symtpoms so they no longer need the sticks. For
others the symptoms get so faint they can't tell without the
sticks.

So if you don't use the sticks and learn to tell your own
ketosis on your own without them, great.

Now take a step back and compare what I write on the topic
with the blind dumb reaction that Doug is just making [censored] up.
My stance is far better founded in the books and the experience
of years tracking what happens.

Quoted message said:

"in general, the LTS will no longer turn pink or purple once you are
taking in 50 or more grams per day of carbohydrates, so they are of no
use as people get above that level of carbohydrate intake."

This is a statement of what the most common CCLL is. Simple
as that. The fact is there are people who still test positive
higher than 100 grams per day. Either these people are lying,
or Dr A didn't have a bloody clue what he was talking about, or
there's need to figure out what he wrote based on the actual
facts. The actual facts say that lots of people fall out of ketosis
near 50 but some don't even get into ketosis at 20 and some
stay in over 100. In other words the actual facts say that my
interpretation is the one to use.

Quoted message said:

So, here Dr, Atkins says "You don't have to use " .... ketosis sticks ...

If you just look at the words in the book as some sort of holy
writ that mean exactly what you want them to mean independent
of what actually happens in the real world. As compared to
looking at what happens it the real world, looking at the good
doctor's words, understanding that how poorly the books were
worded has much to do with the negative media coverage,
concluding the his writing skills weren't up to expressing what
he was attempting to convey, understanding that he did know
what happens, and correlating what happens in the real world
to puzzle out what he was attempting to say.

But no, people want it to be so simple that they can cite the
holy writ, utterly ignore what happens in actual practice, and
pull out quote bites to support their incorrect stances. Because
people want to believe what they want to believe. But wanting
to believe something doesn't make it true.

Quoted message said:

You say that he OP should be checking daily (according to Atkins).

Looks like "invention", Sounds like "Invention" .

You perhaps have an explanation that we uninformed can not comprehend.

Read the book. Understand the writing skills failure. See what
happens in actual practice. Put the failed words beside the
actual events. Puzzle over it for a while. Figure out an
interpretation
that matches actual events. State them. Have people quote
bites of the holy writ telling you you're making stuff up.

Doug Freyburger said:

Jbuch said:

Doug:

You were asked by Trader4 the following which you just ignored.....

Doug said:

You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on
> what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
> you urinate is best.

Several of us are concerned with how you "Invent" Atkins as you go along.

Call it what you will. Some of the stuff I write exceed what is
within the books - using them more often early on. Other of
the stuff I write is in the books - using the sticks on a daily
basis.

Unbelievable fabricattion is what I call it. You don;t see the
difference between where an Atkns book ends and your own conjecture
begins. And you think you can explain this [censored] away per the above.
You weave this stuff to make it look like you are explaining Atkins.
In reality, those less experienced are left not knowing where Atkins
ended and your made up [censored] begins.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DANDR 2002 edition.... Page 137

This is a problem. The versions of the books disagree. As such
if anyone cites anything someone's going to dig through other
versions to find the disagreement. It's why I end up blowing
people off when asked for cites.

I as well as others have asked you for references many times. We
never get one. Not because there are many that conflict with each
other. That would make it easy for you to provide a reference.
Instead you never can provide a reference for your claims. Instead you
come up with lame excuses.

And now you have the nerve to point the finger at Dr. Atkins and claim
that he is the one giving out conflicting advice? Unbelievable!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"You don't have to use LTS [ Lyposis (or Ketosis)Testing Strips such as
Ketostis ] but doing so CAN be an extremely conveninet aid to doing Atkins."

As opposed to the 1972 edition where he was clear that the
entire process resolves around ketosis.

And this proves what?
Show us where Atkins said you have to test your urine daily or even
more frequently to do Atkins right, as you claimed to the newbe.

Quoted message said:

Consider my standard advice about the strips - View them as
training wheels. They read darker in the first couple of weeks,
lighter in later weeks. The early darker readings correlate with
the early more intense symptoms so they teach what those
symptoms are. The later lighter readings point to the later
fainter symptoms. Some use the sticks to learn to recognize
the fainter symtpoms so they no longer need the sticks. For
others the symptoms get so faint they can't tell without the
sticks.

So if you don't use the sticks and learn to tell your own
ketosis on your own without them, great.

It gets better and better. Now we have two alternatives. Use the
strips or learn how to recognize the fainter symptoms so we can tell if
we are in ketosis. Another ridiculous assertion. How can anyone
"learn" to tell they are in ketosis? And you don't need to tell in the
first place period.

Quoted message said:

Now take a step back and compare what I write on the topic
with the blind dumb reaction that Doug is just making [censored] up.
My stance is far better founded in the books and the experience
of years tracking what happens.

You are unable to provide a single credible link, as Jbuch and I have
requested for any of this. So, yes, you are making it up. Remember
the story you made up of exactly how Dr. Agatston, of South Beach
fame, arrived at his diet? You even wove in that he worked at Atkins
Center. When I challenged, that, as frequently happens , there was no
link, no proof, it was pure conjecture, presented as fact.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"in general, the LTS will no longer turn pink or purple once you are
taking in 50 or more grams per day of carbohydrates, so they are of no
use as people get above that level of carbohydrate intake."

This is a statement of what the most common CCLL is. Simple
as that. The fact is there are people who still test positive
higher than 100 grams per day. Either these people are lying,
or Dr A didn't have a bloody clue what he was talking about, or
there's need to figure out what he wrote based on the actual
facts. The actual facts say that lots of people fall out of ketosis
near 50 but some don't even get into ketosis at 20 and some
stay in over 100. In other words the actual facts say that my
interpretation is the one to use.

And now you attack Dr. Atkins as the one who didn;t have a clue?
Again, unbelievable arrogance. In the excerpt above, Dr. Atkins
started off with "In general the LTS will no longer turn pink or purple
once you are taking in 50 grams" Sound reasonable and accurate to me
and consistent with my own experience. I suppose you're going to tell
us you have better "data"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, here Dr, Atkins says "You don't have to use " .... ketosis sticks ...

If you just look at the words in the book as some sort of holy
writ that mean exactly what you want them to mean independent
of what actually happens in the real world. As compared to
looking at what happens it the real world, looking at the good
doctor's words, understanding that how poorly the books were
worded has much to do with the negative media coverage,
concluding the his writing skills weren't up to expressing what
he was attempting to convey, understanding that he did know
what happens, and correlating what happens in the real world
to puzzle out what he was attempting to say.

And now Dr. Atkins is just a poor writer who needs Doug to find the
true meaning of his words and explain it to the dumb masses. Give me
a break. What you are doing is frequently misquoting Dr. Atkins or
taking part of what he said and they weaving it with conjecture without
telling anyone where one ends and the other begins.

Quoted message said:

But no, people want it to be so simple that they can cite the
holy writ, utterly ignore what happens in actual practice, and
pull out quote bites to support their incorrect stances. Because
people want to believe what they want to believe. But wanting
to believe something doesn't make it true.

Oh my! LOL How stupid do you think we all are?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You say that he OP should be checking daily (according to Atkins).

Looks like "invention", Sounds like "Invention" .

You perhaps have an explanation that we uninformed can not comprehend.

Read the book. Understand the writing skills failure. See what
happens in actual practice. Put the failed words beside the
actual events. Puzzle over it for a while. Figure out an
interpretation
that matches actual events. State them. Have people quote
bites of the holy writ telling you you're making stuff up.

And wrap it all up by blaming your lies on Atkins. Seems most of us
here understood him fine. It's only you who seek to use this as a
very poor excuse for your sorry attempt to pass off made up [censored] as the
truth.

"DisplayName" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try to weigh at the same time every day, or at least within the same daily
food phase. By that I mean before breakfast and after daily coffee, or
something predictable like this.

I suspect that if you are not within the desired ketone range before your
first meal each day, then you are getting more carbs than you are
counting,
or maybe you are eating something that is upsetting the cart. Watch
alcohol,
sugar alcohols, artificial sweeteners, and cheese.

Cheese?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freyburger said:

Jbuch said:

Doug:

You were asked by Trader4 the following which you just ignored.....

Doug Wrote:
>You should be checking daily if you are attempting to be on
>> what Atkins actually is. At least daily - Early on evrey time
>> you urinate is best.

Several of us are concerned with how you "Invent" Atkins as you go
along.

Call it what you will. Some of the stuff I write exceed what is
within the books - using them more often early on. Other of
the stuff I write is in the books - using the sticks on a daily
basis.

Unbelievable fabricattion is what I call it. You don;t see the
difference between where an Atkns book ends and your own conjecture
begins. And you think you can explain this [censored] away per the above.
You weave this stuff to make it look like you are explaining Atkins.
In reality, those less experienced are left not knowing where Atkins
ended and your made up [censored] begins.

Relax. You're one hundred percent correct, but his mind isn't open to what
you're saying. He does not wish to see a difference between stating an
opinion or belief as fact and stating it as an opinion or belief. You (and
others) have pointed this out to him repeatedly on clear, certain and simple
terms which anyone could understand if only they were willing.