Kennedy Cycle Fit, Melbourne

531Aussie said:

There's a thread in the Aus NZ section about Kennedy's cycle fit, but I'm wondering if any others have had a fit from John Kennedy in Black Rock, Melbourne

thanks

know 3 people. one happy the other 2 wanting to stick pins in Kennedy-dolls due to [censored] bikes built. There, i have said it. previouls yonly alluded to slightly unhappy customers

FWIW Lee at CecilWaker is 'da man' where it comes to fit IMHO

flyingdutch said:

531Aussie said:

There's a thread in the Aus NZ section about Kennedy's cycle fit, but
I'm wondering if any others have had a fit from John Kennedy in Black
Rock, Melbourne

thanks

know 3 people. one happy the other 2 wanting to stick pins in
Kennedy-dolls due to [censored] bikes built. There, i have said it. previouls
yonly alluded to slightly unhappy customers

FWIW Lee at CecilWaker is 'da man' where it comes to fit IMHO

I recommend to my riders that they go and see John Beasley
if they're having position issues.

flyingdutch said:

know 3 people. one happy the other 2 wanting to stick pins in Kennedy-dolls due to [censored] bikes built. There, i have said it. previouls yonly alluded to slightly unhappy customers

FWIW Lee at CecilWaker is 'da man' where it comes to fit IMHO

Interesting AerialDutch!, if you know WHY they want to stick pins in JK dolls, rather than just that they do, may be very telling!
Anyone not happy with JK usually, either mislead him, wanted to fix a problem they already had that was some one elses doing and still blamed JK for it, (from some other LBS or private deal that went sour) or they just didnt want to spend the correct bucks for a long term solution. Sure, FWIW, true , Lee is a cool dude and does a good job, and similarly MY2BOB'sW, JK is a wealth of experience, has hard to match, road and track smarts and can equate that to a a solution if the problem is fully and frankly admitted to by the client....

Me thinks they pobably purchased a 2nd hand or base stock bike for a low price, not a custom, and then went off and played with it...unlikey JK had much of a contribution to their level of glee!.....JK custom bikes are actualy fabricated to JK's specs by one of Australia's best frame builders- respected and used at elite level as well as down to us plebs...if it wasnt a custom they got, then perhaps they just wanted a cheap ride and got what they paid for ( and what they wouild have been told they were getting too!!) JK doesnt hold back on your ride...ever!

I may be wrong, but if they could actually tell us WHY...we may get a decent item out of this Thread....rather than sticking pins in a guy who, from my personal experience , is a wealth of help, above and beyond what most LBS's deliver.....

He fixed my LBS problem well and truly , and is in mid custom build at this time for me...so watch this space for another review when the treddly is on the road....😎

rooman said:

Interesting AerialDutch!, if you know WHY they want to stick pins in JK dolls, rather than just that they do, may be very telling!
Anyone not happy with JK usually, either mislead him, wanted to fix a problem they already had that was some one elses doing and still blamed JK for it, (from some other LBS or private deal that went sour) or they just didnt want to spend the correct bucks for a long term solution. Sure, FWIW, true , Lee is a cool dude and does a good job, and similarly MY2BOB'sW, JK is a wealth of experience, has hard to match, road and track smarts and can equate that to a a solution if the problem is fully and frankly admitted to by the client....

Me thinks they pobably purchased a 2nd hand or base stock bike for a low price, not a custom, and then went off and played with it...unlikey JK had much of a contribution to their level of glee!.....JK custom bikes are actualy fabricated to JK's specs by one of Australia's best frame builders- respected and used at elite level as well as down to us plebs...if it wasnt a custom they got, then perhaps they just wanted a cheap ride and got what they paid for ( and what they wouild have been told they were getting too!!) JK doesnt hold back on your ride...ever!

I may be wrong, but if they could actually tell us WHY...we may get a decent item out of this Thread....rather than sticking pins in a guy who, from my personal experience , is a wealth of help, above and beyond what most LBS's deliver.....

He fixed my LBS problem well and truly , and is in mid custom build at this time for me...so watch this space for another review when the treddly is on the road....😎

fair enuff! the one i met (and saw) on the Alpine Classic ride 2 years ago was a frame specc'd and built/organised by JK and was a joke!
the tyr clearance between the rearwheel and the seat tube was about 1.5mm (23mm tyres too!) and the guy had asked for a audax-friendly bike !!!

The other bike was also a JK built bike which arrived from him with a make-d0 50mm stem!!! now WTF is wrong with building the toptube 60mm shorter and using a more standard 110(ish) stem???

i realise most fit/fiddle scenarios between LBS and a rider are due tomisinformation or rider taking it home and having a fiddle but these 2 bikes were how JK handed them over FFSake

So, yes my sample of JK only contains 2 validated examples, but heyzoos what monumental cockups they were!

rooman said:

flyingdutch said:

know 3 people. one happy the other 2 wanting to stick pins in
Kennedy-dolls due to [censored] bikes built. There, i have said it. previouls
yonly alluded to slightly unhappy customers

FWIW Lee at CecilWaker is 'da man' where it comes to fit IMHO

Quoted message said:

-Interesting AerialDutch!, if you know WHY they want to stick pins in
JK dolls, rather than just that they do, may be very telling!-

For all the usual reasons, I'd guess. JK and Steve Hogg have a system
that they apply with regards to a specific school of thought re
bike fit, which, as with all systems, has its devotees and its
rigourous detractors. I know a number of people who swear
by JK bikes and fit, and a number who swear at him
instead. It would be sufficient to say that his methods are
controversial, and tend to attract religious devotion
or jihad, and not much in between.

All hearsay, I've never met him or had a fit by him,
but some of my riders have. I'm only going on what they've
told me.

Quoted message said:

-Anyone not happy with JK usually, either mislead him, wanted to fix a
problem they already had that was some one elses doing and still blamed
JK for it, (from some other LBS or private deal that went sour) or they
just didnt want to spend the correct bucks for a long term solution.
Sure, FWIW, true , Lee is a cool dude and does a good job, and
similarly MY2BOB'sW, JK is a wealth of experience, has hard to match,
road and track smarts and can equate that to a a solution if the
problem is fully and frankly admitted to by the client....-

-Me thinks they pobably purchased a 2nd hand or base stock bike for a
low price, not a custom, and then went off and played with it...unlikey
JK had much of a contribution to their level of glee!.....JK custom
bikes are actualy fabricated to JK's specs by one of Australia's best
frame builders- respected and used at elite level as well as down to us
plebs...if it wasnt a custom they got, then perhaps they just wanted a
cheap ride and got what they paid for ( and what they wouild have been
told they were getting too!!) JK doesnt hold back on your ride...ever!-

-I may be wrong, but if they could actually tell us WHY...we may get a
decent item out of this Thread....rather than sticking pins in a guy
who, from my personal experience , is a wealth of help, above and
beyond what most LBS's deliver.....-

You'll note that neither FD or I have said anything bad about JK,
but have suggested alternatives for fits and relayed that not
everyone's experience with him has been satisfactory. Anyone
in business is going to have unsatisfied clients sometimes,
for any number of reasons, be them real or perceived.

Quoted message said:

-He fixed my LBS problem well and truly , and is in mid custom build at
this time for me...so watch this space for another review when the
treddly is on the road....😎 -

What works for you is great, and obviously you're a JK "believer".
It's not realistic to expect everyone else to be the same. Please
take my comments with healthy skepticism (I'm sure you
will, but I want to make it extra clear!) , JK is in a way a
competitor of mine and as such, my comments are probably
biased. I'm declaring a conflict of interest.

I'm not going to bag what he does, but I am going to suggest
alternatives based on my experiences with sending riders to get fitted
when they're having problems and the feedback I've had from
those riders. I don't do tricky bike fits, I send my clients to see
John Beasley, and I've never heard a bad thing said about
his methods, results, manner and value.

rooman said:

He fixed my LBS problem well and truly , and is in mid custom build at this time for me...so watch this space for another review when the treddly is on the road....😎

Roomen, who sold you the bike that was too small for you, and what brand is it?

thanks

flyingdutch said:

Quoted message said:

fair enuff! the one i met (and saw) on the Alpine Classic ride 2 years
ago was a frame specc'd and built/organised by JK and was a joke!
the tyr clearance between the rearwheel and the seat tube was about
1.5mm (23mm tyres too!) and the guy had asked for a audax-friendly bike
!!!

My 3rd hand understanding of the basic setup that JK/SH does is to
have riders sitting a -long- way back, ie: super-relaxed seat tube
angles - this can lead to very interesting geometries around the rear
triangle if the rider's body doesn't suit that position with 700c
wheels and you want a straight seat-tube and chainstays that
aren't disturbingly long. The same effect can be achieved with a
setback seatpost and a short stem. JK also sells these posts and
stems I believe. You can usually tell someone who's been to JK and
bought into his position. They have a funky seatpost that has them
sitting a long long way back over the back wheel.

flyingdutch said:

the tyr clearance between the rearwheel and the seat tube was about
1.5mm (23mm tyres too!) and the guy had asked for a audax-friendly bike

My old roadie (now single speed) had even less than that. When I bought
a floor pump and started pumping the rear tyre beyond 100 psi it would
rub against the frame. Had to buy 20mm tyres for it. Then Hippy gave me
a wheel which I used for the single speed project which must seat the
tyre slightly different because I can use 23mm tyres, and have about 1mm
clearance. And this was on fairly standard Apollo frame, nothing custom
about that.

DaveB

Search this newsgroup in google and you will see this question pops up a bit
with varying opinions.

"531Aussie" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's a thread in the Aus NZ section about Kennedy's cycle fit, but
I'm wondering if any others have had a fit from John Kennedy in Black
Rock, Melbourne

thanks

--
531Aussie

531Aussie said:

Roomen, who sold you the bike that was too small for you, and what brand is it?

thanks

It was an LBS, between Brighton and Mordy, and not , repeat NOT JK, as for the brand, I wont reveal as it isnt relevant, the components were and are first class for the style of bike ( I wanted...Campy 10 speed Groupset/Columbus ELOS Niv. frameset, carbob here, carbonb there. It was just the size and the attempt by the original LBS to snow me on size... I could have had a custom made for the same end price from CW, JK, or others etc...

FWIW both Cecil Walker and JK custom bikes come generally from the same frame-maker, the main difference is spec...and yes Carl, I agree, both John and Steve have a view on specs which may differ from others ( DO definitely DIFFER from some). They have a particular view on seat tube angle and wheelbase which certainly attracts many riders for greater high speed, long distance races. So traditional bike specs may be suitable in the crits, or some tri-events where shorter wheelbase and a more forward position may be preferable....but for Jo Populace, he wants comfort, performance and safety going together in a package that is affordable.

That is the formula, I see that they offer.

By no means am I a devotee, I am, more correctly, sufficiently informed to know what works for my cycling aspirations, and I found out the hard way from that other LBS ( two others in fact, and both with reputations that suggested to Joe Populace they knew what they were doing, but really they were just selling mass produced fair at the highest turn over they could crank out).

And FD, both the scenarios sound to me that it wasnt necessarily JK who got it wrong.....he would happily offer to fix any glaringly obvious thing like that, and still would, he would also no doubt happily refund them, if it was his stuff up.....did they go back and work through that? , or just say to you that it was "JK's doing".... forgive my doubting on this, but it does seem really weird to have those two scenarios when they don't gel!, you felt they were weird, right, to me it doesnt sound right either, and I would be inclined to think, that something isnt right in the whole picture you got..... does make a nice image of JK's butt getting "pinned", I'm sure he would happily bend over for them, if it was that way.

Carl , maybe its time you wandered down from Brighton way and actually met JK, whilst he hasnt raced IRB's , he is one of the quickest around Sandown in a production car....you both may have a lot to spar on !

flyingdutch said:

know 3 people. one happy the other 2 wanting to stick pins in Kennedy-dolls due to [censored] bikes built. There, i have said it. previouls yonly alluded to slightly unhappy customers

FWIW Lee at CecilWaker is 'da man' where it comes to fit IMHO

I've had 3 bikes fitted by John - that should tell you my experience, he does a very good job. He does change things incrementally though, it often takes a while and several changes to get it right, perhaps some of those who were unhappy gave up during the process rather than see it through to a conclusion. IMHO this is the right way to do it as too many changes at once is not only bad for your body but you have no way of knowing what change is responsible for what you are experiencing.

He had also told me that the geometry of my first bike would not allow a good position for me - there's no point blaming him for that, I just bought a new bike:-)

rooman said:

And FD, both the scenarios sound to me that it wasnt necessarily JK who got it wrong.....he would happily offer to fix any glaringly obvious thing like that, and still would, he would also no doubt happily refund them, if it was his stuff up.....did they go back and work through that? , or just say to you that it was "JK's doing".... forgive my doubting on this, but it does seem really weird to have those two scenarios when they don't gel!, you felt they were weird, right, to me it doesnt sound right either, and I would be inclined to think, that something isnt right in the whole picture you got..... does make a nice image of JK's butt getting "pinned", I'm sure he would happily bend over for them, if it was that way.

This all 2ndhand info, but one of em said he got into a shouting/pissing contest with staff there. them claiming "youre not sitting on the bike right!!!".
Maybe the guy i bumped into at the Alpine was a nutter? who knows.
either way, anyone who builds a bike with too long A toptube and 50mm stem (FFS!) I will gladly steer clear of. That particular scenario is nothing but a joke! AND instigated by JK himself as a 'solution'.

I cant think of any scenario that justifies a 50mm stem on a NEW bike.
fixing an existing scenario... maybe. but going out of your way to spec it that way???

just seems wierd to me that JK is the only person (in melbourne) i have heard of get so many 'bad-fits' consistently attributed to him (again by 3rdhand info)

Im glad youre happy with your bike (and Im sure there are many other JK customers who are too) and the polarity of approach that JK offers can only mean more thouht goes into bke-fit in general in our market.
BUT A 50MM STEM?????????????????????????????

flyingdutch said:

BUT A 50MM STEM?????????????????????????????

I was at Northcote Track races last night in DISC...there were at least six bikes with stems of effective length of 50mm, none of those bikes were a JK. one was a BT( they arn't exactly customs, but the riders think they are..that's another story)..., one CW, one Bianchi & the other a leTour....so maybe tonight, if you have alook around at the CM treddlies you just might find a few more dozen....!

Did you kindly ask the 2nd hand or 3rd hand informant-custodian-owner, why JK fitted a 50mm stem, if JK fitted it out of necessity as the 2nd hand/3rd hand persona wanted that particular frame) pre-made, special rpice, nice-ah colour..whatever, or would not go the distance on a tailored custom?...who knows, but as you seem so incensed about the value of 50mm stems any way, I will go to the horses mush and just see what JK has to say about them, where they fit in the scheme of things, why he might just want to set one on a (claimed) new bike (note did you leave out custom?) there is a huge obvious diff between a new bike and a custom bike.

I am intrigued as you....we'll see!

rooman said:

I was at Northcote Track races last night in DISC...there were at least six bikes with stems of effective length of 50mm, none of those bikes were a JK. one was a BT( they arn't exactly customs, but the riders think they are..that's another story)..., one CW, one Bianchi & the other a leTour....so maybe tonight, if you have alook around at the CM treddlies you just might find a few more dozen....!

Did you kindly ask the 2nd hand or 3rd hand informant-custodian-owner, why JK fitted a 50mm stem, if JK fitted it out of necessity as the 2nd hand/3rd hand persona wanted that particular frame) pre-made, special rpice, nice-ah colour..whatever, or would not go the distance on a tailored custom?...who knows, but as you seem so incensed about the value of 50mm stems any way, I will go to the horses mush and just see what JK has to say about them, where they fit in the scheme of things, why he might just want to set one on a (claimed) new bike (note did you leave out custom?) there is a huge obvious diff between a new bike and a custom bike.

I am intrigued as you....we'll see!

mmmmmmm, BT 🙄

would you ride a 50mm stem?

Like i said, the 50mm stem was JK's idea on first delivery. period.
the 'classicer' claimed he was a bit surprised by it upon arrival but trusted JK's judgement. 3 months later, the pin-stickin was bein dreamed of!

personally Im lookin forward to gettin a repalcement bike for my recently crunched bike, but realise its gonna possibly take (despite an amount of anal measurments 🙄 ) a numbe rof months to incrementally tweak it to 'me'

stay tuned...

flyingdutch said:

the tyr clearance between the rearwheel and the seat tube was about 1.5mm (23mm tyres too!) and the guy had asked for a audax-friendly bike !!!

The other bike was also a JK built bike which arrived from him with a make-d0 50mm stem!!! now WTF is wrong with building the toptube 60mm shorter and using a more standard 110(ish) stem???
!

I find both of these circumstances very unusual.

John (usually) strongly recommends long chain stays, especially on alu bikes (approx 430mm, from my crude measurements).

And it seems as though other people claim they were put on LONG stems!!!!????? So which is it?

The circumstances must've been very strange for short stays and short stems to eventuate.
It just doesn't sound right.

531Aussie said:

I find both of these circumstances very unusual.

John (usually) strongly recommends long chain stays, especially on alu bikes (approx 430mm, from my crude measurements).

And it seems as though other people claim they were put on LONG stems!!!!????? So which is it?

The circumstances must've been very strange for short stays and short stems to eventuate.
It just doesn't sound right.

well , derrr! 😄

hence me sayin IMHO JK fit doesnt, well... FIT! *

(the opinions in this FD post do not necessarily represent the views of FD )

flyingdutch said:

well , derrr! 😄

hence me sayin IMHO JK fit doesnt, well... FIT! *

(the opinions in this FD post do not necessarily represent the views of FD )

OK here's the guff on short stems...they have a place....and not just as paperweights.....short people, ride little bikes and little bikes still need a long wheel base to be manageable, and a longish top bar to accommodate again a wheel base that is manageable, so often some one say 48kg rider needs a mini stem to have a top bar to accommodate a wheelbase to accommodate a ride position that gives that rider's engine the ability to function a) for a long time & b) in an optimum position for the physiology and riding style the rider can manage/wants/drools about...whatever.....

OK, it is not a set thing that 110 stems are the go either ( although style man may suggest they are the only way to go, on a 56cm frame, of Steel, with record, on Campag Boras..oops I digress) ...often they (the stem bigger than 50mm ie) merely match the ego of the rider who likes a long thing sticking out front...get my drift...

so it is all about the rider, the engine, the position and the V created by the wheelbase necessitated by the above that can dictate the stem....put all that togetrher, then whack on the long thingy and rider no reachy,ok, so stem comes down to reachable...100, 90, 75 and yes 50mms)..

bottom line...there are a lot of 50mm stems out there, they are necessary and have a place...OK back to pin sticker number three....was he/she small?, or did they explain to you that for their aspirations and engine parameters, JK said this frame that fits you still needs a short stem.....and then when they got out into the public arena...a few well meaning folk then said...hay your thingy is a bit short!!!!( when in fact it is what nature or whatever you call the engine formula intended for them...they then got all shy...couldnt admit they had a small thingy and went looking for "sticking pins" as their "size"is called into question.......OK...long winded but you ...again get my drift....behind all that angst of rider nummer drei there aresome home truths that havnt quite made the light of day ( heaven forbid..and in mixed company tooooooo!)

.....hmmmmm, now BT 🙄 (as you put it) they have a magic, but again they only come in a few sizes and most riders have to fiddle/befuddle to get them to fit them too.....

Oh yeah speaking of not fitting , have you had a close look at the BikeFridays out there, all the way from good old YOUGREEN OhReegon (ahum Eugene OR)
checked one out today up close, now there is a bike with minimal wheelbase for a high seating position....I ask how many have gone over the handlebars on one of them ?....sure they gotta be short to fit in a suit case...but what has short got to do with safety...just asking case any one knows?

flyingdutch said:

well , derrr! 😄

hence me sayin IMHO JK fit doesnt, well... FIT! *

(the opinions in this FD post do not necessarily represent the views of FD )

OH yeah, JK denies the short stays were of his doing...so maybe your nutter got to his JK bike with a hack saw and welded it back short.....who knows, maybe we will never....but JK says "nicht schuldig"...ah bad teutonic for "not me, yor honna!"

I saw a new Tri-bike the other day with chainstays so short you couldn't change 8 of the 10 gears on either chainring!!!!!, no matter how you adjusted the de-railleurs....AND it was a factory stock, some brainstorm in design decided they had to mass produce a TRI special, ( and its in the window of a few TRI-LBS's in Melb. too) to have a superforward thingy cos the tri coaches tell their charges to get forward..whatever (WTF for?)...and well when on the other hand you have big factory's like GiGantOR making 3 sizes across a range S M & L, geeeeeeeez, are they really making pizzas ( now thats a WTF and FFS thing) too....

rooman said:

flyingdutch said:

well , derrr! 😄

hence me sayin IMHO JK fit doesnt, well... FIT! *

(the opinions in this FD post do not necessarily represent the views of
FD )

OH yeah, JK denies the short stays were of his doing...so maybe your
nutter got to his JK bike with a hack saw and welded it back
short.....who knows, maybe we will never....but JK says "nicht
schuldig"...ah bad teutonic for "not me, yor honna!"

I saw a new Tri-bike the other day with chainstays so short you
couldn't change 8 of the 10 gears on either chainring!!!!!, no matter
how you adjusted the de-railleurs....AND it was a factory stock, some
brainstorm in design decided they had to mass produce a TRI special, (
and its in the window of a few TRI-LBS's in Melb. too) to have a
superforward thingy cos the tri coaches tell their charges to get
forward..whatever (WTF for?)...and well when on the other hand you have
big factory's like GiGantOR making 3 sizes across a range S M & L,
geeeeeeeez, are they really making pizzas ( now thats a WTF and FFS
thing) too....

--
rooman

Why are triathletes forward? Do you mean why do we use a steeper seat
tube angle?

http://tinyurl.com/b7d6j

Tam