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Keith H, John H, routine opinions please

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 March 2006
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24 March 2006
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Will_S
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  1. I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic lifts
    (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and push
    press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you thought
    of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):

    "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a 16
    week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,

    M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,

    T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,

    Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,

    Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans, 3*5
    strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    Anything left grip,abs
    WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle clean
    and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs), stones-speed,
    20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the 335
    to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either 10*35
    ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."

    I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the stones
    and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care what
    I can squat in a suit. What do you think?

    Thanks,
    Will

    --
    My email address has been altered to prevent spam.
    Take the "r" out of netscrape.net.

  2. On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:15:19 -0800, Will_S <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic lifts
    (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and push
    press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you thought
    of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):

    "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a 16
    week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,

    M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,

    T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,

    Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,

    Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans, 3*5
    strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    Anything left grip,abs
    WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle clean
    and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs), stones-speed,
    20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the 335
    to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either 10*35
    ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."

    I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the stones
    and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care what
    I can squat in a suit. What do you think?


    The front squats worked great for my quads and glutes but especially
    my core. I can hold form now with a gut busting max deadlift even
    without a belt or suit. The front squats didn't do much for my
    deadlift numbers otherwise, as I deadlift sumo and I was using a
    fairly close stance with the front squats with my heels only being
    about 10 inches apart.

    One other side effect was that I gained weight which came mostly in my
    glutes and quads. I had not back squatted at all for a period of a
    couple of months so I did lose some strength in the hips but I've
    gotten all of that back now. I've never been stronger but I'm
    weighing between 227 and 332 now.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic lifts
    (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and push
    press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you thought
    of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):

    "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a 16
    week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,

    M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,

    T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,

    Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,

    Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans, 3*5
    strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    Anything left grip,abs
    WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle clean
    and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs), stones-speed,
    20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the 335
    to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either 10*35
    ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."

    I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the stones
    and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care what
    I can squat in a suit. What do you think?

    Works good. I like the wave-like progression Gillingham uses. In a
    powerlifting or weightlifting world I think more motor training can be
    usefull (more frequent training of lifts), but in a strongman
    environment this works very well I think.

    --
    Keith

  4. On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    weighing between 227 and 332 now.

    Hehe...uhmm, 232:-)

  5. "John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    weighing between 227 and 332 now.

    Hehe...uhmm, 232:-)

    I was gonna say lay off the chips!

  6. On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:10:27 -0800, "Larry Hodges"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    "John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    weighing between 227 and 332 now.

    Hehe...uhmm, 232:-)

    I was gonna say lay off the chips!


    And the beer. I did drop to 226 about a week ago after not imbibing
    for over a week.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hanson said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:10:27 -0800, "Larry Hodges"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    "John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0600, John Hanson
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    >weighing between 227 and 332 now.

    Hehe...uhmm, 232:-)

    I was gonna say lay off the chips!


    And the beer. I did drop to 226 about a week ago after not imbibing
    for over a week.

    Yeah, but you know this Friday is...

    St. Pat's day.

    Green beer, dude. You'll be over 230 again.

    :^)

    --
    Keith

  8. On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:47:37 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hanson said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:10:27 -0800, "Larry Hodges"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    "John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0600, John Hanson
    > <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
    >
    >>weighing between 227 and 332 now.
    >
    > Hehe...uhmm, 232:-)

    I was gonna say lay off the chips!


    And the beer. I did drop to 226 about a week ago after not imbibing
    for over a week.

    Yeah, but you know this Friday is...

    St. Pat's day.

    Green beer, dude. You'll be over 230 again.

    :^)

    As long as I'm 220 1/4 on May 6th, I don't care. How's the training
    going, Keith? You should be doing your nationals next month. Masters
    Worlds is in Texas this year and I'm sure you would have made your
    world team.

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hanson said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:47:37 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hanson said:

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:10:27 -0800, "Larry Hodges"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    >"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0600, John Hanson
    >> <[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
    >>
    >>>weighing between 227 and 332 now.
    >>
    >> Hehe...uhmm, 232:-)
    >
    >I was gonna say lay off the chips!
    >
    And the beer. I did drop to 226 about a week ago after not imbibing
    for over a week.

    Yeah, but you know this Friday is...

    St. Pat's day.

    Green beer, dude. You'll be over 230 again.

    :^)

    As long as I'm 220 1/4 on May 6th, I don't care. How's the training
    going, Keith? You should be doing your nationals next month. Masters
    Worlds is in Texas this year and I'm sure you would have made your
    world team.

    Nothing, but olympic lifting lately. And even there my overhead stuff
    sucks. My shoulder just isn't coming back after separating it playing
    rugby last year.

    I'm putting together a program that combines powerlifting and olympic
    lifting and really trying to put something together. Even if my bench
    sucks I should be able to squat and deadlift enough to do fairly well.

    --
    Keith

  10. On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:22:06 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    As long as I'm 220 1/4 on May 6th, I don't care. How's the training
    going, Keith? You should be doing your nationals next month. Masters
    Worlds is in Texas this year and I'm sure you would have made your
    world team.

    Nothing, but olympic lifting lately. And even there my overhead stuff
    sucks. My shoulder just isn't coming back after separating it playing
    rugby last year.

    I separated mine last year when I flipped my ATV whipping donuts in
    the snow. My chiropractor put it back in place for me but its still
    not 100% but its close to being completely healed.

    Quoted message said:


    I'm putting together a program that combines powerlifting and olympic
    lifting and really trying to put something together. Even if my bench
    sucks I should be able to squat and deadlift enough to do fairly well.

    Have you seen the Gillingham deadlift video? That's pretty much what
    he's done. He does front squats, high bar squats and power cleans.
    I'm sure you're adding in more olympic movements than big Brad though.
    You can go to the Chech Republic next year for worlds if you heal up
    decent. You ought to come down to Killeen in May for our Masters
    Nationals. I still need to contact Elzi to see if she's going to be
    around and I'm sure Lyle will be there...that is, if he's back in
    Texas.

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hanson said:

    On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:22:06 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    As long as I'm 220 1/4 on May 6th, I don't care. How's the training
    going, Keith? You should be doing your nationals next month. Masters
    Worlds is in Texas this year and I'm sure you would have made your
    world team.

    Nothing, but olympic lifting lately. And even there my overhead stuff
    sucks. My shoulder just isn't coming back after separating it playing
    rugby last year.

    I separated mine last year when I flipped my ATV whipping donuts in
    the snow. My chiropractor put it back in place for me but its still
    not 100% but its close to being completely healed.

    Quoted message said:


    I'm putting together a program that combines powerlifting and olympic
    lifting and really trying to put something together. Even if my bench
    sucks I should be able to squat and deadlift enough to do fairly well.

    Have you seen the Gillingham deadlift video? That's pretty much what
    he's done. He does front squats, high bar squats and power cleans.
    I'm sure you're adding in more olympic movements than big Brad though.
    You can go to the Chech Republic next year for worlds if you heal up
    decent. You ought to come down to Killeen in May for our Masters
    Nationals. I still need to contact Elzi to see if she's going to be
    around and I'm sure Lyle will be there...that is, if he's back in
    Texas.

    My program is pretty simple.

    Sundays are heavy. Work up to a perceived max single in the clean and
    then drop down 45 lbs for 2x3 and then add 20 lbs for 2x2.

    I then do the same thing with either a power squat (suit and wraps are
    optional with this type of workout, but as I don't have a competition
    right now I don't use them) or a high bar squat. Back off 70 lbs for 2x3
    and then add 30 lbs for 2x2. I do exactly the same thing with either the
    sumo deadlift or conventional deadlift.

    So you have a huge, heavy day. Clean, squat, deadlift.

    Monday is light. I do three [censored] movements.

    I power [censored] from the hang 5 reps followed by OH squat. 4 sets.

    I then do the same thing, but alternate every rep. I focus on decreasing
    the transition time and dropping fast in the OH squat. 4 sets of 5.

    I then do 5 sets of 5 in the progressive [censored]. I keep dropping lower
    and lower to catch the bar in every rep. This is based on a study on
    motor learning called 'old way - new way' where you focus on the
    _difference_ in feel of the motor pattern. The idea is to get out of the
    power [censored] mode and get into a full squat [censored].

    I then do light clean and jerks for 15 minutes (1 clean, 3 jerks). Then
    speed bench for 15 minutes (3 reps).

    Wednesday is the same as Monday, but my 15 minute work is done in cleans
    and box squats.

    Thursday is heavy, and much the same as Sunday. Work to a max single,
    back off for two sets, split the difference for 2 heavier sets.

    3 exercises are done. Clean and jerk (focusing on the jerk in the back
    off sets), power [censored] or split [censored] and bench press.

    So right now my focus is on getting my shoulder better and snatching
    properly.

    I also do some tumbling and bodyweight exercises throughout the week and
    may do some runs if the weather and footing permits. Mostly to get ready
    for summer sports. So if I have a stressed volume week the additional
    work comes outside the weightroom.

    It works pretty well for me. My flexibility is way up, my speed is
    getting better (my vertical is over 28" right now - pretty good for an
    old man) and my bodyweight is down to about 210 to 214. So I can drop
    down to 207 for weightlifting and just enjoy powerlifting competition
    without having to worry about making weight. I may drop a little more
    weight and try and stay at 205 to get down to 90 kgs for powerlifting.

    --
    Keith

  12. On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:22:06 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    My shoulder just isn't coming back after separating it playing
    rugby last year.

    Well actually, I seperated it in a frantic masturbation session, and
    as I do it 12 or 15 times a day it just won't heal.

    Hobbes

  13. John Hanson said:

    I separated mine last year when I flipped my ATV whipping donuts in
    the snow.

    If that were true, I'd be very immature for a grown man, but since you
    were honest about your over-masturbation injury, I will too. I hurt
    mine giving Charles a reach-around during a sexual frenzy that even my
    fat, bloated body couldn't take. But I was lucky, Charles got a
    dislocated penis, luckily it was a minor operation to repair it since
    it was so small, and he has no balls to get in the way.
    On the bright side, I'm no longer a virgin. How long does your ass
    hurt after that sorta thing? Are these warts and pimples normal? Since
    I never had sex with another person before, I just don't know about
    these worldlee things.

  14. On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:49:56 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hanson said:

    On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:22:06 -0600, Hobbes <[email hidden]>
    wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > As long as I'm 220 1/4 on May 6th, I don't care. How's the training
    > going, Keith? You should be doing your nationals next month. Masters
    > Worlds is in Texas this year and I'm sure you would have made your
    > world team.

    Nothing, but olympic lifting lately. And even there my overhead stuff
    sucks. My shoulder just isn't coming back after separating it playing
    rugby last year.

    I separated mine last year when I flipped my ATV whipping donuts in
    the snow. My chiropractor put it back in place for me but its still
    not 100% but its close to being completely healed.

    Quoted message said:


    I'm putting together a program that combines powerlifting and olympic
    lifting and really trying to put something together. Even if my bench
    sucks I should be able to squat and deadlift enough to do fairly well.

    Have you seen the Gillingham deadlift video? That's pretty much what
    he's done. He does front squats, high bar squats and power cleans.
    I'm sure you're adding in more olympic movements than big Brad though.
    You can go to the Chech Republic next year for worlds if you heal up
    decent. You ought to come down to Killeen in May for our Masters
    Nationals. I still need to contact Elzi to see if she's going to be
    around and I'm sure Lyle will be there...that is, if he's back in
    Texas.

    My program is pretty simple.

    Sundays are heavy. Work up to a perceived max single in the clean and
    then drop down 45 lbs for 2x3 and then add 20 lbs for 2x2.

    I then do the same thing with either a power squat (suit and wraps are
    optional with this type of workout, but as I don't have a competition
    right now I don't use them) or a high bar squat. Back off 70 lbs for 2x3
    and then add 30 lbs for 2x2. I do exactly the same thing with either the
    sumo deadlift or conventional deadlift.

    So you have a huge, heavy day. Clean, squat, deadlift.

    Monday is light. I do three [censored] movements.

    I power [censored] from the hang 5 reps followed by OH squat. 4 sets.

    I then do the same thing, but alternate every rep. I focus on decreasing
    the transition time and dropping fast in the OH squat. 4 sets of 5.

    I then do 5 sets of 5 in the progressive [censored]. I keep dropping lower
    and lower to catch the bar in every rep. This is based on a study on
    motor learning called 'old way - new way' where you focus on the
    _difference_ in feel of the motor pattern. The idea is to get out of the
    power [censored] mode and get into a full squat [censored].

    I then do light clean and jerks for 15 minutes (1 clean, 3 jerks). Then
    speed bench for 15 minutes (3 reps).

    Wednesday is the same as Monday, but my 15 minute work is done in cleans
    and box squats.

    Thursday is heavy, and much the same as Sunday. Work to a max single,
    back off for two sets, split the difference for 2 heavier sets.

    3 exercises are done. Clean and jerk (focusing on the jerk in the back
    off sets), power [censored] or split [censored] and bench press.

    The Gillingham program has much more volume. His off season front
    squat program is three day/week with as many as 6 sets of 5. It's
    actually an old Russian program that some commie came up with years
    ago. In your fourth week, he's got you doing 4 sets of 5 at 90% of
    your starting max. I actually was able to get through it:-)

    I think I might try a program more like yours after Killeen. Maybe
    I'll do that for the TCO.

    Quoted message said:


    So right now my focus is on getting my shoulder better and snatching
    properly.


    Probably the smartest way to go.

    Quoted message said:

    I also do some tumbling and bodyweight exercises throughout the week and
    may do some runs if the weather and footing permits. Mostly to get ready
    for summer sports. So if I have a stressed volume week the additional
    work comes outside the weightroom.

    Tumbling is out here for the near future. We just got over two feet
    of snow between Monday's storm and today's storm.

    Quoted message said:

    It works pretty well for me. My flexibility is way up, my speed is
    getting better (my vertical is over 28" right now - pretty good for an
    old man) and my bodyweight is down to about 210 to 214. So I can drop
    down to 207 for weightlifting and just enjoy powerlifting competition
    without having to worry about making weight. I may drop a little more
    weight and try and stay at 205 to get down to 90 kgs for powerlifting.

    My buddy, Keith Belisle, moved up to the 75s and sucked three of us
    220 pounders into the 42s. Cain and Dierks are planning on competing
    at 242 but I'll be damned if I'm getting up at 5:00 AM to compete at
    9:00 AM Sunday morning. I'd much rather pull my last deadlift at 1:00
    AM (Central Time) like I did in Palm Springs than to lift that damned
    early.

  15. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Hobbes said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic lifts
    (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and push
    press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you thought
    of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):

    "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a 16
    week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,

    M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,

    T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,

    Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,

    Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans, 3*5
    strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    Anything left grip,abs
    WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle clean
    and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs), stones-speed,
    20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the 335
    to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either 10*35
    ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."

    I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the stones
    and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care what
    I can squat in a suit. What do you think?

    Works good. I like the wave-like progression Gillingham uses. In a
    powerlifting or weightlifting world I think more motor training can be
    usefull (more frequent training of lifts), but in a strongman
    environment this works very well I think.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I realize that lifting a log and lifting a bar are two very different
    things, that said, anything you see to imrpove in this "clean" and push
    press?

    http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Log240.wmv

    --
    My email address has been altered to prevent spam.
    Take the "r" out of netscrape.net.

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Hobbes said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic lifts
    (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and push
    press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you thought
    of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):

    "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a 16
    week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,

    M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,

    T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,

    Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,

    Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans, 3*5
    strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    Anything left grip,abs
    WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle clean
    and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs), stones-speed,
    20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the 335
    to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either 10*35
    ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."

    I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the stones
    and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care what
    I can squat in a suit. What do you think?

    Works good. I like the wave-like progression Gillingham uses. In a
    powerlifting or weightlifting world I think more motor training can be
    usefull (more frequent training of lifts), but in a strongman
    environment this works very well I think.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I realize that lifting a log and lifting a bar are two very different
    things, that said, anything you see to imrpove in this "clean" and push
    press?

    I can only think of how you might benefit from the technique used by the
    olympic lifters in the drive off the chest. It looks like you could get
    a little more vertical extension. You are pulling a little short in
    order to start 'dropping' under the log. Try some reps where you don't
    even use your arms and see how much height and speed you can impart to
    the log with leg/hip drive.

    Other than that, the obvious. Keep working on tricpes/chest/shoulder
    strength. You are looking hella strong there, Will.

    --
    Keith

  17. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Hobbes said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Hobbes said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    Will_S <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    > Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic lifts
    > (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and push
    > press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you thought
    > of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):
    >
    > "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a
    > 16
    > week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    > punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,
    >
    > M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,
    >
    > T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,
    >
    > Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,
    >
    > Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans,
    > 3*5
    > strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    > distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    > Anything left grip,abs
    > WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle clean
    > and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs), stones-speed,
    > 20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the 335
    > to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either 10*35
    > ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    > Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."
    >
    > I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    > front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the stones
    > and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care what
    > I can squat in a suit. What do you think?

    Works good. I like the wave-like progression Gillingham uses. In a
    powerlifting or weightlifting world I think more motor training can be
    usefull (more frequent training of lifts), but in a strongman
    environment this works very well I think.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I realize that lifting a log and lifting a bar are two very different
    things, that said, anything you see to imrpove in this "clean" and push
    press?

    I can only think of how you might benefit from the technique used by the
    olympic lifters in the drive off the chest. It looks like you could get
    a little more vertical extension. You are pulling a little short in
    order to start 'dropping' under the log. Try some reps where you don't
    even use your arms and see how much height and speed you can impart to
    the log with leg/hip drive.

    Other than that, the obvious. Keep working on tricpes/chest/shoulder
    strength. You are looking hella strong there, Will.

    Thanks Keith.

    How 'bout them Raiders signing Aaron Brooks?

    --
    My email address has been altered to prevent spam.
    Take the "r" out of netscrape.net.

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Hobbes said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Will_S said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,
    Hobbes <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > In article <[email hidden]>,
    > Will_S <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    > > I know John has had good experiences with the Gillingham routine and
    > > Keith knows a lot about training in general and also the olympic
    > > lifts
    > > (although all I'm really interested in is a better power clean and
    > > push
    > > press / power jerk, for strongman) so I was wondering what you
    > > thought
    > > of the following (lifted from a post to Jesse Marunde's forum):
    > >
    > > "For the 5*5 squats I use his [Gillingham's] 12 week cycle [link to a
    > > 16
    > > week version: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/324/ ], I just
    > > punched my #'s in on his site. My schedule looks like,
    > >
    > > M-cleans, clean and military, chins, triceps,
    > >
    > > T-Sq, rotating deads, row, grip,core,
    > >
    > > Th-lot's of push press's and Inclines,chins,core,
    > >
    > > Sat- wk1-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20) log cleans,
    > > 3*5
    > > strict press, ME Framers(holds, pickups or short heavy runs) speed or
    > > distance yoke, stones, 2-3 series of 5-8 stones, 1 death medley.
    > > Anything left grip,abs
    > > WK 2-olympic or front, vary(3*5, doubles or 1*15-20 ton's of axle
    > > clean
    > > and press's, ME yoke(quarter squats or heavy 30ft runs),
    > > stones-speed,
    > > 20 reps w/one stone/ about :30 sec to a minrest. (last week did the
    > > 335
    > > to 50", about killed me on last rep, farmers death medley, either
    > > 10*35
    > > ft(30sec rest) or 1 * allout w/ turns at 35ft. , grip
    > > Every 3-4 weeks I cut out 1 day of overhead."
    > >
    > > I'm thinking of making the Tuesday squats usually or excludively be
    > > front squats - seems like they have a lot more carry over to the
    > > stones
    > > and push pressing than do back squats, and I no longer really care
    > > what
    > > I can squat in a suit. What do you think?
    >
    > Works good. I like the wave-like progression Gillingham uses. In a
    > powerlifting or weightlifting world I think more motor training can be
    > usefull (more frequent training of lifts), but in a strongman
    > environment this works very well I think.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I realize that lifting a log and lifting a bar are two very different
    things, that said, anything you see to imrpove in this "clean" and push
    press?

    I can only think of how you might benefit from the technique used by the
    olympic lifters in the drive off the chest. It looks like you could get
    a little more vertical extension. You are pulling a little short in
    order to start 'dropping' under the log. Try some reps where you don't
    even use your arms and see how much height and speed you can impart to
    the log with leg/hip drive.

    Other than that, the obvious. Keep working on tricpes/chest/shoulder
    strength. You are looking hella strong there, Will.

    Thanks Keith.

    How 'bout them Raiders signing Aaron Brooks?

    A quarterback who has played in the NFL - who'd of thunk?

    I still like staying conservative in the FA market to really thinking
    you can bring in some aging ex-hero and think he will make a difference.
    The Raiders have too many pressing needs - on o-line and defense - to
    work a quick-fix with one or two players.

    --
    Keith

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