Katrina and bikes

"lowkey" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

But that isn't the point.

Evacuation by bicycle! I don't know how fast the average hurricane
moves
but I figure a hurricane motivated cyclist, possibly with a hurricane
head-wind could make decent time, maybe average 30 - 40 kph sustained
for 10 hours would put you 300 -400 km inland.

You know, the folks who do ham radio have the Radio Relay League so they
can tell themselves they're doing something important while they're in the
shack kibbitzing with whoever -- and in fact, the RRLs have done some
amazing stuff over the years. We could have the fuel-less transportation
league. Stashes of emergency clip-on panniers, folks in neighborhoods with
whistles and armbands to get bikes in tough riding shape before the move
out, group leaders, chaperoning sag cars, etc. Being able to cover large
distances with no fuel and no money is a skill well worth having these
days. Good idea!

--ag

p.s. that's a tail wind you want, btw

lowkey said:

Note: No, I'm not suggesting an entire city could evacuate by bike. Just a
lark.

Remembering those pictures of miles of cars not moving, or not moving
very fast, does give the bike option a lot of credibility. It's not
like you have to get 150 miles inland, you have to get 60 miles west of
the storm. Somewhere during the end of those 60 miles a school gym or
other designated disaster shelter is bound to show up. Beats sitting in
the Superdome or on your roof for a week.

"lowkey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had a thought about making all the Katrina stuff on topic:

I've seen lot's of stuff about how those who didn't evacuate were the poor
because they lacked cars. *shakes head at the kar-centric society*

It seems to overlook that even if everyone had a Kar the resultant
congestion would have in all likelihood thwarted evacuation. No the
solution was not 500,000 kars on the road but a buses, trains that would
be able to carry much more people per roadway footprint than individual
autos.

But that isn't the point.

Evacuation by bicycle! I don't know how fast the average hurricane moves
but I figure a hurricane motivated cyclist, possibly with a hurricane
head-wind could make decent time, maybe average 30 - 40 kph sustained for
10 hours would put you 300 -400 km inland.

...google.... I see hurricane speeds-of-advance of 15 - 20 kph cited as
reasonable.

Note: No, I'm not suggesting an entire city could evacuate by bike. Just a
lark.

--
'Bruised and sullen stormclouds
Have the light of day obscured.
Looming low and ominous' -rush

==================================================================================

I live in the northeast, New England. A couple of years ago I was planning
a bicyle tour. I figured I'd use Amtrak.
I thought I could cycle to the station, load my bicycle on the baggage
train, ride, get my bicycle at the station I wanted to depart from. Guess
what Amtrak said; I would need to take my bicycle apart, put it in a box
and ship it on Amtrak's baggage train. The baggage train didn't run very
often, and I would end up sitting for who knows how long waiting for my
bicycle.

So much for Amtrak. The other issue is Amtrak's price. Have you ever
checked out what it cost to take a train. Total [censored]. And, we
taxpayers are paying for this horrible railroad.

I'm not sure, but doesn't Amtrak service New Orleans.

Just one more thing wrong with America. This country is going down the
tubes. Fast.

Quoted message said:

I can tell youre not from the US by the use of metric figures. So you
need to know a few things:
Back in the 1930's a Socialist president named Franklin Roosevelt
created many programs to help bail the US out of the Great Depression.
He created a payroll tax so retirees could get a check every month and
not have to save/invest on their own. This started America's decline.
Then in the 1960's other liberals like Kennedy and Johnson chose to
focus on giving monorities equal rights. Welfare, foodstamps, WIC (a
program to feed out of wedlock and [censored] children) were created.
People got food housing and medical care without working. They
continued to breed and pass the non-work ethic and entitlement
mentality to their offspring. New Orleans was filled with such people
as are many other cities here. They have learned that they bear no
responsibility for themselves and would not leave on their own because
they've NEVER had to do for themselves!! Look at the looting and
ungratefulness exhibited by them

Quoted message said:

Back in the 1930's a Socialist president named Franklin Roosevelt
created many programs to help bail the US out of the Great Depression.
He created a payroll tax so retirees could get a check every month and
not have to save/invest on their own. This started America's decline.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us how we got into the Great Depression? Or
was that a socialist initiative as well?

"Thomas Wentworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:H_YUe.15825$Qv6.3922@trndny04:

Quoted message said:

I live in the northeast, New England. A couple of years ago I was
planning a bicyle tour. I figured I'd use Amtrak.
I thought I could cycle to the station, load my bicycle on the baggage
train, ride, get my bicycle at the station I wanted to depart from.
Guess what Amtrak said; I would need to take my bicycle apart, put it
in a box and ship it on Amtrak's baggage train. The baggage train
didn't run very often, and I would end up sitting for who knows how
long waiting for my bicycle.

So much for Amtrak. The other issue is Amtrak's price. Have you ever
checked out what it cost to take a train. Total [censored]. And, we
taxpayers are paying for this horrible railroad.

I'm not sure, but doesn't Amtrak service New Orleans.

Just one more thing wrong with America. This country is going down
the tubes. Fast.

The Vermonter welcomes bikes without being treated as boxed cargo, and I
understand that now the parallel trains in New York do as well. The
Amtrak home page says to call the phone number to find out about your
route or station. And, of course, bents are not welcome for roll-up
bike rack service. But you are correct; whatever circle-jerk is
secreting Amtrak policy is not serving the interests of anybody who
could actually use a railroad, and bike access is the least their
problems.

--ag

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lowkey said:

I had a thought about making all the Katrina stuff on topic:

I've seen lot's of stuff about how those who didn't evacuate were the poor
because they lacked cars. *shakes head at the kar-centric society*

It seems to overlook that even if everyone had a Kar the resultant
congestion would have in all likelihood thwarted evacuation. No the solution
was not 500,000 kars on the road but a buses, trains that would be able to
carry much more people per roadway footprint than individual autos.

But that isn't the point.

Evacuation by bicycle! I don't know how fast the average hurricane moves
but I figure a hurricane motivated cyclist, possibly with a hurricane
head-wind could make decent time, maybe average 30 - 40 kph sustained for 10
hours would put you 300 -400 km inland.

I've heard about hurricanes and tornados moving as fast as 60mph.

When Ivan hit, there was destruction and debris all over Alabama and
Mississippi, several hours drive north.

Some people seem to think that only New Orleans was hit in this and that
twenty miles north, everything is fine. That's not really true. Trees
are down, houses are demolished, roads are blocked, etc.

And, again, there's the question of where to go. It's not like the
government rented out a bunch of hotel rooms for people 100 miles north
or anything.

I like the idea, but I'd rather have a car in such a getaway situation,
if only for protection from the elements and a roof over my head if I
need to sleep.

However, I certainly recommend riding a bike over driving a car for
almost any other purpose, but what these people really needed was
high-speed mass transit to get people out. Jumbo bullet trains, etc.

Will said:

lowkey said:

Note: No, I'm not suggesting an entire city could evacuate by bike. Just a
lark.

Remembering those pictures of miles of cars not moving, or not moving
very fast, does give the bike option a lot of credibility.

When I first saw one of those pictures in the paper my first thought
was "I'd be on a mountain bike and long gone."

I was reading a reporter's story (Tim Harper Toronto Star 10/09/2005)
about being in and around New Orleans from the day the storm hit. One
of the main problems he and his cameraman had was getting gas. Again
the thought was: Why not a bike. They apparently had an Explorer to
drive. Toss a bike in the back and use it and the truck.

Quoted message said:

It's not
like you have to get 150 miles inland, you have to get 60 miles west of
the storm. Somewhere during the end of those 60 miles a school gym or
other designated disaster shelter is bound to show up. Beats sitting in
the Superdome or on your roof for a week.

Thomas Wentworth said:

So much for Amtrak. The other issue is Amtrak's price. Have you ever
checked out what it cost to take a train. Total [censored]. And, we
taxpayers are paying for this horrible railroad.

We are? I just checked some fares online for California to Chicago.
It's about $160 one-way. This is under one of their specials. That's
more than flying, I think, but I wouldn't call it [censored]. Of course,
other trips might be more expensive.

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure, but doesn't Amtrak service New Orleans.

Probably. They have stations in a lot of American cities.

Quoted message said:

Just one more thing wrong with America. This country is going down the
tubes. Fast.

Would that be the "down tube"?

"Thomas Wentworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:H_YUe.15825$Qv6.3922@trndny04...

Quoted message said:

I live in the northeast, New England. A couple of years ago I was
planning a bicyle tour. I figured I'd use Amtrak.
I thought I could cycle to the station, load my bicycle on the baggage
train, ride, get my bicycle at the station I wanted to depart from. Guess
what Amtrak said; I would need to take my bicycle apart, put it in a box
and ship it on Amtrak's baggage train. The baggage train didn't run very
often, and I would end up sitting for who knows how long waiting for my
bicycle.

I had the same trouble with Via. The really dumb thing was that the train
stopping here didn't have a baggage car so I would have had to ship the bike
to Toronto to load it onto a train that did have a baggage car even though
that train passed through Guelph - it just didn't stop.

--
'Nowhere Man, the world is at your command.
He's as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see'
-the beatles

Quoted message said:

Howcum all the whackos on this group have the backpacker.com domain for
an e-mail?

Because fudgepacker.com was taken.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can tell youre not from the US by the use of metric figures. So you
need to know a few things:

That you have a political agenda that blinds you from even discussing
something non-political?

Ya, I kinda figured that out.

--
'Life is a tragedy for those who feel,
and a comedy for those who think.'
-jean de la bruyere

"Andy Gee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

p.s. that's a tail wind you want, btw

D'Oh!

Of course. I promise to go for an extra long ride today as an act of
contrition.

Howcum all the whackos on this group have the backpacker.com domain for
an e-mail?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Howcum all the whackos on this group have the backpacker.com domain for
an e-mail?

A quick skim indicates bigjim and jabario using @backpacker.com . Both are
using Verizon as their ISP.

lowkey said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Howcum all the whackos on this group have the backpacker.com domain for
an e-mail?

A quick skim indicates bigjim and jabario using @backpacker.com . Both are
using Verizon as their ISP.

Anyway... to get back to the OP. I think it makes a lot of sense for
metropolitan areas to consider implementing a bicycle option for
evacuations. A lot of people could get away quickly. No staging for
buses, waiting for Feds. A few folks could stand at bridge crossings
and the like with leaflets on routes and other information.

lowkey said:

Evacuation by bicycle! I don't know how fast the average hurricane moves
but I figure a hurricane motivated cyclist, possibly with a hurricane
head-wind could make decent time, maybe average 30 - 40 kph sustained for 10
hours would put you 300 -400 km inland.

Nasty pileups often occur in large organized recreational rides, and
that is when people are very calm and care-free. In groups of
near-paniced refugees with many inexperienced riders, there would be
carnage.

Furthermore, it's not clear how you would obtain the bicycles. A bunch
of bicycles sitting in a warehouse for 25-100 years would not be ridable
when evacuation finally becomes necessary.

-Mike

lowkey said:

I had a thought about making all the Katrina stuff on topic:

Evacuation by bicycle!

Most people, like me, are in poor shape to attempt an emergency
evacuation by bicycle. People would be falling over dead within 20
miles. Those who didn't die would be found a few miles further up the
road on the ground with muscles that refused to move another twitch.

Also, they'd probably have stuff that they'd like to take with them that
isn't easily loaded on a bicycle.

Randy.

Andy Gee said:

"lowkey" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

But that isn't the point.

Evacuation by bicycle! I don't know how fast the average hurricane
moves
but I figure a hurricane motivated cyclist, possibly with a hurricane
head-wind could make decent time, maybe average 30 - 40 kph sustained
for 10 hours would put you 300 -400 km inland.

You know, the folks who do ham radio have the Radio Relay League so they
can tell themselves they're doing something important while they're in the
shack kibbitzing with whoever -- and in fact, the RRLs have done some
amazing stuff over the years. We could have the fuel-less transportation
league. Stashes of emergency clip-on panniers, folks in neighborhoods with
whistles and armbands to get bikes in tough riding shape before the move
out, group leaders, chaperoning sag cars, etc. Being able to cover large
distances with no fuel and no money is a skill well worth having these
days. Good idea!

--ag

p.s. that's a tail wind you want, btw

Ham operators are often the only people who can communicate when there's
a massive power outage. I remember after Andrew and some of the other
Florida hurricanes, emergency fire and police had to rely on ham
operators to communicate when the power and phone systems went down.

A combination of ham operators and bikes might work sometime. The
latest ham radios are no bigger than cell phones.