Karnazes: Pizza & Cheesecake?

Quoted message said:

1). He's now talking about running non-stop from San Francisco to LA.
500 Miles. Why? The "look at me" factor and "I'll top Pam".

The problem is that the guy wants to have it both ways. He wants to be a
"winner", but he tends to revise "competitions" so as to make sure that
he's the only contestant. Two examples: "longest nonstop run" whatever that
means (contrived BS so he doesn't have to compete with Kouros) which later
became "longest nonstop run over a hillier course than the one Pam Reed ran",
and after getting beaten in the Antartic race (and trying to set the state
department onto the winner Rich Donovan), he was "the first place in the
non-snowshoe category". Overheard on letsrun -- apparently, he claims he could
run sub 2:30 "if he trained for it". The guy has won some actual competitions
(albeit in a niche sport against weak fields, but at least he's not the only
contestant!) but these achievements are overshadowed by his theatrics.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

1). He's now talking about running non-stop from San Francisco to LA.
500 Miles. Why? The "look at me" factor and "I'll top Pam".

The whole basis of his original 300M run idea was he didn't know if it
could be done. When Reed stole his idea and then accomplished it, that
proved it could be done. So since 300M can be done isn't it reasonable
to ask if 400, or even 500 can be? Of course you won't think that's
reasonable but if those that came after Bannister thought the same way,
the record for the mile would be a lot higher.

Quoted message said:

2). I was curious as to how team karnazes was going to manage his book
tour/promo while Pam has bested him. seems he does mention it at
all....and acts as if it never happend....yet has been forced to come
up with this 500 mile race newly defined goal.

Because Pam stole his idea to do 300M.

Quoted message said:

3). This diet of his. OK, it's cavalier, whimsical and connects to
the common man to order a Dominos Pizza...whatever. The issue is not
the calories needed. The issue is optimum smart efficient foods/diet
that cover your calorie interest/needs that come with minimal downside.
A large Hawaiian Pizza & whole Cheesecake in the middle of your
event?

Yeah, he should eat tofu and celery. Even eating the highest calorie,
fattiest foods he could, he still probably wasn't taking in more
calories than he was expending. You do understand that calories to a
human is like gas in a car. That you have to put enough in or the engine
stops? Have you ever tried eating 600 calories a hour for 70 hours? And
even then he probably still lost weight.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

Quoted message said:

"And for Karnazes, nonstop means nonstop. Aside from sleeping on the
road, he also eats there, urinates and chats on his cell phone. Around
midnight on the first night of his 262-mile adventure, he called up the
Round Table in Petaluma and - without uttering hardly a huff, a puff
or a gasp - ordered a large Hawaiian pizza with extra everything, an
entire cheesecake and a cup of coffee delivered to him at the corner of
two roads in the middle of nowhere. After the incredulous delivery boy
unloaded his wares into Karnazes' bulky moving arms, the runner
continued on down the road, holding his food in one hand and eating
with the other as he went".
__

How do you run with 1 large pizza w/everything, a whole cheesecake, & a
cup of coffee?

"It was no big deal for Karnazes. Considering how much he needs to eat,
scenes like that have become routine. Karnazes calculates that he burns
about 600 calories per hour when he's running, which means that while
the recommended daily caloric intake for most people is 2,000 calories
a day, his is closer to 14,000. Though he's the president of a health
food company, Karnazes admits it would take too much of a good thing to
fill his needs. So, his diet on the road can consist of cinnamon rolls,
chocolate chip cookies, malts and, frequently, pizza."
___

OK, my issue was not the required calorie count. Mine was how do you
run carring these items?

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2005/March/31/sport/stories/03sport.htm

Folks, I've been reading about this guy. Great guy yes. PT Barnum?
yes. I have now come to believe he's not good for Ultras or
running....with all his absurd hype.

1). He's now talking about running non-stop from San Francisco to LA.
500 Miles. Why? The "look at me" factor and "I'll top Pam".

2). I was curious as to how team karnazes was going to manage his book
tour/promo while Pam has bested him. seems he does mention it at
all....and acts as if it never happend....yet has been forced to come
up with this 500 mile race newly defined goal.

3). This diet of his. OK, it's cavalier, whimsical and connects to
the common man to order a Dominos Pizza...whatever. The issue is not
the calories needed. The issue is optimum smart efficient foods/diet
that cover your calorie interest/needs that come with minimal downside.
A large Hawaiian Pizza & whole Cheesecake in the middle of your
event?

Sorry folks....when you eat the same [censored] a 100 .lb overweight person
is eating...something about that picture is not right!....I gotta
wonder how serious of a sport you're in. OK...here's where you wrap
up DK in a folksy charm of being a good guy and enjoying life to the
fullest....right?

In most serious sports...the competition is so fierce....the margins
between competitors.......diet matters and makes a significant
difference.

Is there another sport where the top people in the game can snack on a
large Hawaiian Pizza & entire Cheesecake?.....before or during the
event? Just asking the question....

Why are you all so mean? i just like to run. ok, fine. i'll just go sit
in my Malibu mansion and spit pumpkin seeds at the maid. buncha jerks.

The Trailrunner said:

The whole basis of his original 300M run idea was he didn't know if it
could be done.

Kouros already did more than 400.

Quoted message said:

When Reed stole his idea

"stole" his "idea" ??? wah wah wah, poor Karnazes actually has to compete
against someone to set his record. But he woulda-shoulda-coulda done 300 if
he ran on a less hilly course. What a crybaby.

Without some competition, it's no more than a circus stunt. Setting a "record"
by accomplishing some obscure feat that no-one else has attempted is not an
impressive athletic achievement, though possibly an impressive feat of the
imagination (though not in this case, as someone had already accomplished
it)

Quoted message said:

and then accomplished it, that
proved it could be done. So since 300M can be done isn't it reasonable
to ask if 400,

No, since Kouros has already done that.

Quoted message said:

or even 500 can be?

Depends on whether or not anyone has already done that. I don't think it's
much of a question unless there are some clearly defined rules though. Pam
Reed holds a legit American record for the 24hr run.

Someone has gone 500 miles before (USATF 144hr record). This was actually
quite a remarkable feat -- the guy averaged just under 4mph over a period of
6 days, which was faster than Reed's average pace. I suppose he may have slept
(though not a whole lot). I think for Karnazes' attempt to mean anything, he's
got to explain what makes his feat unique.

Quoted message said:

Of course you won't think that's
reasonable but if those that came after Bannister thought the same way,
the record for the mile would be a lot higher.

It's not comparable. Bannister's run was a legit record. He had to run faster
than the worlds best runners to set that record, and he had to set the record
according to clearly defined rules. Pam Reed also holds a legitimate American
Record (for the 24hr run). I don't know if Karnazes holds any legit records,
but I suspect not. Legitimate records are attempted according to clearly
defined rules, and are meaningful because anyone can make an attempt under the
same rules, so to be the record holder means being at the top of your chosen
competition. Setting a "record" against no competition is meaningless BS.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Setting a "record" against no competition is meaningless BS.

You obviously know a lot of "facts" but really have no understanding of
the mentality of ultrarunners. There are 100's of people that do
unsanctioned runs (that is not in a race setting) in an attempt to set
some sort of record. For example speed records on every trail of any
significant length in the US has a claimed record. While *you* might
consider these BS, I assure you there are MANY ultrarunners who consider
them legitimate. Again I will point out that DK did his 262M solo run on
a point to point road course. Just as there are different records for
track 24 hour which Reed holds, and road 24 hours which she doesn't (the
road record is greater), one could make the case that Kouros mark is a
different category than what DK did. But the bottom line is DK and PR
efforts will be judged by other ultrarunners and no one in the
ultrarunning community gives a sh** what you, or any other non ultra
runner thinks. While we would like to educate the public, we have found
that generally your attitude that we are a bunch of freaks that can't
really *run* is the most prevalent, so we just laugh at your rants as we
run through places you will never see.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Honestly, as an ultra runner, do you consider an uncontested mark to have more
merit than winning badwater ?

DK won Badwater. But yeah, there are some uncontested marks that I (and
others) think are more significant. For example the speed record on the
Appalachian Trail or Brian Robinson's completion of all 3 continental
trails in a single calendar year. My feeling is that somebody HAS to win
every race. Not to mention that the race itself supplies the motivation
for many people. But a solo effort takes a different mentality and
toughness that most folks don't possess. And I admire the determination
to gut it out when no one is watching much more than running for glory
in the brightness of the spotlight. That's not to say that race results
are insignificant. But rather that there is a place in the ultrarunnimng
world for both. And that's why you don't understand the ultrarunner's
mentality.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

The Trailrunner said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Honestly, as an ultra runner, do you consider an uncontested mark to have
more merit than winning badwater ?

DK won Badwater. But yeah, there are some uncontested marks that I (and
others) think are more significant. For example the speed record on the
Appalachian Trail or Brian Robinson's completion of all 3 continental
trails in a single calendar year. My feeling is that somebody HAS to win

That's actually a good explanation -- I can see now that uncontested marks
do have merit. I suppose similar things exist in the distance running world--
for example, Zatopek's legendary track workout. No-one knows exactly how fast
he did the workout, but even if someone else performed the workout later at
a faster pace, they would get about as much attention as the average modern
Mt Everest climber.

Quoted message said:

every race. Not to mention that the race itself supplies the motivation
for many people. But a solo effort takes a different mentality and
toughness that most folks don't possess. And I admire the determination
to gut it out when no one is watching much more than running for glory
in the brightness of the spotlight.

Well that's the thing -- I think Karnazes is grabbing the spotlight,
and I don't think he's doing anything original in the same way as others
who post impressive uncontested marks are.

Quoted message said:

world for both. And that's why you don't understand the ultrarunner's
mentality.

I suppose I understand it a tiny bit better now.

CHeers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

The Trailrunner said:

Quoted message said:

Setting a "record" against no competition is meaningless BS.

You obviously know a lot of "facts" but really have no understanding of
the mentality of ultrarunners.

I understand just fine, but I like to think that some of you are better

than

Quoted message said:

that. If you don't want the scrutiny of competition and being measured

against

Quoted message said:

your peers, that's fine -- but in that case, be humble like Dougie or Tony,
don't blow smoke out your ass about how you set "a record".

Hey I'm a newbie - only 2 ultras (unless you count that 27 mile training
run - how's that for humble) so my opinions are face value only.

Quoted message said:

If you want to claim a record, scrutiny and competition is fair game.

Inventing a contrived category for the purpose of passing off a mediocre

mark

Quoted message said:

as a "record" is fraud, IMO.

Quoted message said:

There are 100's of people that do
unsanctioned runs (that is not in a race setting) in an attempt to set
some sort of record.

Unless the "record" is contested, it's a PR, no more, no less.

Quoted message said:

them legitimate. Again I will point out that DK did his 262M solo run on
a point to point road course. Just as there are different records for
track 24 hour which Reed holds, and road 24 hours which she doesn't (the
road record is greater), one could make the case that Kouros mark is a
different category than what DK did.

Not in any meaningful sense.

Quoted message said:

But the bottom line is DK and PR
efforts will be judged by other ultrarunners and no one in the
ultrarunning community gives a sh** what you, or any other non ultra
runner thinks.

Which is why DK is pimping his book on 60 minutes and trying to pass

himself

Quoted message said:

off as a "record holder" to the general public, who don't know better ?

Come

Quoted message said:

on ! You'd go back to your cave, and be content with your well deserved
obscurity, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Honestly, as an ultra runner, do you consider an uncontested mark to have

more

Quoted message said:

merit than winning badwater ?

While Dean won badwater and finished western states in 17+hours, very
respectable performances, he's certainly not the ULTRAMARATHON man that his
namesake website and book suggest. Dean's sin is that he wants to be more
than he is and thus he invents new stunts which he can use to appeal to the
general public for further self-promotion.

True accolades come from your peers, not from your own overblown ego. Other
ultra runners make a living at it, including Scott Jurek, who I believe did
a record time for the four "biggest" 100 mile races in 2004. Kouros aside,
Scott Jurek is far superior to Dean, but you don't see Jurek doing
unmeasurable things to stand out. He's standing out doing real races.

Others like David horton who set the record for the AT in 1991 choose
legitimate, measurable goals. Other ultrarunners do quirky races like the
long trail in vermont, but again that is measurable. This [censored] about 300
miles non-stop is just plain stupid, and I doubt we will see Pam Reed
repeating that sort of thing. From Dean I expect more meaningless but
impressive-in-some-way stunts. Why doesn't he try running 400 miles and
eating 40 whole pizzas along the way, as at least that would expose him as
the guiness-record category-defining idiot that he is.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While we would like to educate the public, we have found
that generally your attitude that we are a bunch of freaks that can't
really *run* is the most prevalent,

You certainly are all a bunch of freaks (Tony and Doug -- in your case I

mean

Quoted message said:

it in a good way, but you're still freaks), but actually, some of you can

run

Quoted message said:

quite well even outside the ultra distances.

Well, correct, I'm a freak, but not a real ultrarunner. A real ultrarunner
must do a race longer than 50 miles IMO (unless you're a real 50 mile racer
like Dan - I forget if he's gone beyond 50m yet). 50 miles can be faked,
100k and beyond I believe cannot be.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

The Trailrunner said:

Quoted message said:

1). He's now talking about running non-stop from San Francisco to LA.
500 Miles. Why? The "look at me" factor and "I'll top Pam".

The whole basis of his original 300M run idea was he didn't know if it
could be done. When Reed stole his idea and then accomplished it, that
proved it could be done. So since 300M can be done isn't it reasonable
to ask if 400, or even 500 can be? Of course you won't think that's
reasonable but if those that came after Bannister thought the same way,
the record for the mile would be a lot higher.

I don't think the mile vs Dk or Reed is a valid
comparison. That's pure atheletic competition; DK
and Reed aren't. To the question of is 400 or 500
so called nonstop miles either doable or reasonable,
I say "who cares." They may be feats of endurance,
but they're also self serving stunts...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3). This diet of his. OK, it's cavalier, whimsical and connects to
the common man to order a Dominos Pizza...whatever. The issue is not
the calories needed. The issue is optimum smart efficient foods/diet
that cover your calorie interest/needs that come with minimal downside.
A large Hawaiian Pizza & whole Cheesecake in the middle of your
event?

Yeah, he should eat tofu and celery.

Can I have broccoli on a bake spud instead? And
I'd really prefer smoked salmon (yes, I know it's
bad for you...) than any amount of tofu 😉

Quoted message said:

Even eating the highest calorie,
fattiest foods he could,

heck, a big mac and medium strawberry shake (sorry,
no chocolate, Doug...) per 2-hours would more than
do it.

Quoted message said:

he still probably wasn't taking in more
calories than he was expending. You do understand that calories to a
human is like gas in a car. That you have to put enough in or the engine
stops? Have you ever tried eating 600 calories a hour for 70 hours? And
even then he probably still lost weight.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

Quoted message said:

collapsed after the finish and had to lie on the

ground for over an hour with people coming up to me every few mins
asking if
I was ok.
___

i'm starting to think either Dot is married to DK or Dot is
DK....hummmm?

just out of curiosity....when you're there on the ground for over an
hour & people come to you and ask if you're OK...whaddaya say? ".
what's it look like a%%hole? "

serious question of the ultra guys. we all know the cycling world is
notorious for its steroid use, spint & middle distance runners too.
eddie h. got busted after setting all sorts of masters records at 1/2M
and M distance.

i suppose you guys are going to tell me that ultra runners
neeeeevvvvvveeeeerrrrr would use steroids or probe blood doping, etc.
do they test in some of these ultras like the WS100?

anyone ever been busted in the ultra world? or is this the one
event/class of sport that's 100% clean...<wink wink>?

Quoted message said:

anyone ever been busted in the ultra world? or is this the one
event/class of sport that's 100% clean...<wink wink>?

One of the best ways to keep a sport clean is to keep money out of it. This
is difficult to do with a sport that has a large audience, but ultra running
is truly a fringe sport. Doping is expensive, so unless there's a financial
incentive to do it, not much point. It is hardly unique -- fringe sports tend
to be clean, sports with big money involved tend to get dirty. The drugs tend
to follow the money.

There are many other characteristics of the sport that make me think that
doping is unlikely:
(1) most of the competitors (even the top ones) are not world class talent. If
they really are dopers, their performances are not evidence for it.
(2) the winners have little incentive to cheat -- no big prize money, and
often, fairly comfortable victory margins (which means that for the most
part, cheating would not make any difference to the outcome)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

He urinates on his cell phone?

[email hidden] wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

collapsed after the finish and had to lie on the

ground for over an hour with people coming up to me every few mins
asking if
I was ok.
___

i'm starting to think either Dot is married to DK or Dot is
DK....hummmm?

just out of curiosity....when you're there on the ground for over an
hour & people come to you and ask if you're OK...whaddaya say? ".
what's it look like a%%hole? "

lol I think they just wanted to make sure i wasn't dead. "I'm ok, just
resting for a little while". I wasn't dehydrated, but probably lacked salts
and I was pretty dizzy. I was so hungry I ate 6 full meals in the next 12
hours.

-Tony

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i suppose you guys are going to tell me that ultra runners
neeeeevvvvvveeeeerrrrr would use steroids or probe blood doping, etc.
do they test in some of these ultras like the WS100?

No tests so one could claim we are all using.

Quoted message said:

anyone ever been busted in the ultra world? or is this the one
event/class of sport that's 100% clean...<wink wink>?

In my 15 years I have not heard of anyone using roids. doping etc.
Usually money is a driving factor so even if one cheats and wins they
only places you first in the listing. Ok, if you clever you may get a
shoe contract. I would think if anyone was going to cheat hey would find
a way to cut the course. In general, nah, no money in it.

-DougF